very tough rules question

[rankoutsider]

Hi Guys: I was playing in a tournament and had a very difficult rules situation arise. Here is what happened.

 

On a long par 3 I hit it left of left, and had to make a pretty good shot, running a six iron punch under branches, through a bunker, and, eventually, to about 8 feet past the pin and, I thought, through the green. That is where the story starts. My ball came to rest in an unrepaired pitch mark, probably more on the fringe than on the green, but on the cusp of the two. The ball was clearly down in the mark, with a good bit of it below the surface of the ground.

 

I thought at the time that I get relief in either of two ways: it is either on the green so I can go about my business, or it is in an embedded lie, so I get relief that way. The problem with this, though, is that had I picked it up and marked it, my mark would have been on the fringe, so there was no way I was going to do that. So back to the embedded lie idea, which I thought this was anyway. The group I was playing with thought that I had to just play it, and since all three of them concurred, I just played it. I hit the putt, the ball went straight up, bounced twice, and trundled forward, missing by about 2 inches.

 

I wasn't playing great that day, but had just strung together about 4 pars to get myself back to some kind of form heading towards the back. I wasn't happy about this bogey, even with that horrid tee ball. The worst part of it is that the vice-president of the club had just driven up to our group to give out cheques from the last tournament, but had left before I saw my situation.

 

I felt like I should have claimed that the ball was embedded, but does an unrepaired pitch mark really qualify as an embedded lie? I really don't know if that is a stretch. I vowed to find the gorilla who hit the towering 5 iron and left that crater in the ground, but I am not a large man, and would have a whole host of embedded stuff if I went that route....

 

Any thoughts?

Rob

[smithjohnjr]

I dont think you can claim "embedded" since your ball did not make the pitch mark. It is the same situation as if you were in a divot. Play it as it lies, sorry but you played it out as the correct situation

[oldpalchamp]

I think you would be able to mark your ball, and repair the pitch mark. The USGA deems a ball to on the green if any part of the ball touches the green, and also allows the repair of pitchmarks if they are partially on the green (because it would be impractical to repair only the part on the green).

[jjj912]

I think you would be able to mark your ball, and repair the pitch mark. The USGA deems a ball to on the green if any part of the ball touches the green, and also allows the repair of pitchmarks if they are partially on the green (because it would be impractical to repair only the part on the green).

 

I agree.

[chewey15]

Agree any part of the ball touching the green is deemed to be on the green.

[LP28]

I'm probably wrong but I thought that your ball is considered 'on the green' even if a portion of the ball is over-looking(hanging over) the green but technically sitting on the fringe?? Maybe not but I thought I heard that before. Either way if it was partially sitting on the green you WERE DEFINITELY consider on the green and should have marked it and fixed the ball mark you were sitting in. And you can mark the ball where ever you want(ie-behind the ball, on the side, in front) as long as you replace the ball where it was.

[rankoutsider]

hmm... i think you guys are right, although my ballmark would have been on the fringe had i marked the ball behind it, so that seems strange to me. obviously, though, i shouldn't have to play out of a crater that is almost entirely (or is entirely) on the green. it would be one thing if i was in the rough or something, of course.

 

the bigger problem was that i was playing with three guys who always play together, and who always defer to this one guy who claims to know the rules like the back of his hand. he is usually pretty reliable, but i think he fouled this one up on me.

 

thanks for the replies guys,

rob

[HackerD]

I believe you are right and got shafted in your match. From USGA rules:

 

Putting Green

The "putting green" is all ground of the hole being played that is specially prepared for putting or otherwise defined as such by the Committee. A ball is on the putting green when any part of it touches the putting green.

 

16-1c/1.5 Ball Mark Partially On and Partially Off Putting Green Is on Line of Play

 

Q. If a player’s ball lies just off the putting green and there is a ball mark on his line of play, he is entitled to repair the ball mark if it is on the green (Rule 16-1c), but not if it is off the green (Rule 13-2). What is the ruling if a ball mark on the line of play is partially on and partially off the green?

 

A. Since it is impracticable to allow the repair of only that part of the ball mark which is on the putting green, the player may repair the entire ball mark.

[Ghost_Orchid]

You could have also played a second ball, where you repair the pitch mark...record scores with both balls then have the committee decide which score to keep.

 

I'm not 100% sure though.

[hbear]

Yup when in doubt play 2 balls!

 

But keeping that $5 rule book in your bag is pretty helpful...