Pure Ball Striker Training Aid....

[Ty_Webb]

Hi - I got mine in the mail a couple of days ago - thanks for the very quick service Jeff. Haven't had a chance to hit balls with it yet, but I have had a few swings indoors with it on and have a couple of questions.

 

First of all, I can feel it at address and then not a great deal more on the way back. Then, at the point of transition, the pressure really increases on my finger. I think this is because at this point, the club is accelerating fairly quickly. The pressure then dissipates somewhat on the way down, I think because the rate of acceleration slows. There's still pressure there, it's just not as strong as it was at the transition. The only way that I can make the pressure feel more constant is to actively try to push the club back into my right hand with my left. So like, if you're standing at address, twisting your left hand clockwise and your right hand anticlockwise. That action increases significantly the amount of pressure that you feel, but I don't think that's the movement that is being targeted with the PBS. Rather more just the pressure that you feel from leaving the clubhead behind your hands.

 

Next, I presume that the intention is that you release at some point - I think this is where the aiming point comes in - so you release at the aiming point. Does the pressure fall away at the point that you release? Basically, I guess there are two ways that you can feel pressure at the finger. Number one is if the club is behind your hands and remaining there and number two is if you're accelerating the club forwards using your finger (ie either the club is applying force to your finger, or your finger is applying force to the club). One is active and the other passive, but it's difficult to distinguish the feeling. I think I'm going to buy the Impact Zone book, because it appears to help this become clearer. Problem I have is I have a big event coming up in four weeks time and I don't want to cloud my mind with a whole bunch of new technical stuff that I don't need right now.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Thanks WorkingOnIt for answering one bit of my post - I've taken that bit out. I'm still curious about how the release fits in with keeping the pressure. Presumably as you push the clubhead away while releasing, that pushing action keeps the pressure up, which is why you want to keep the pressure on for as long as possible.

 

I guess the other thing I have a problem with is sometimes I feel like I get it stuck and it feels like if I release it at all it's going to go about 100 yards left and I end up hanging on to it and I hit it high and WAY right. Off the reservation right. I think this happens because I get steep and outside it and releasing it will hit it left, so I try to keep myself hitting from the inside. Never feel when I swing like my finger might come off the PBS though. Sadly I have no means of videoing my swing. Best I have is this picture:

 

 

 

Not sure if that will help at all or not. I guess a shot from just before impact would be more helpful, but I don't have one of those.

[Jeff Evans]

Hi - I got mine in the mail a couple of days ago - thanks for the very quick service Jeff. Haven't had a chance to hit balls with it yet, but I have had a few swings indoors with it on and have a couple of questions.

 

First of all, I can feel it at address and then not a great deal more on the way back. Then, at the point of transition, the pressure really increases on my finger. I think this is because at this point, the club is accelerating fairly quickly. The pressure then dissipates somewhat on the way down, I think because the rate of acceleration slows. There's still pressure there, it's just not as strong as it was at the transition. The only way that I can make the pressure feel more constant is to actively try to push the club back into my right hand with my left. So like, if you're standing at address, twisting your left hand clockwise and your right hand anticlockwise. That action increases significantly the amount of pressure that you feel, but I don't think that's the movement that is being targeted with the PBS. Rather more just the pressure that you feel from leaving the clubhead behind your hands.

 

Next, I presume that the intention is that you release at some point - I think this is where the aiming point comes in - so you release at the aiming point. Does the pressure fall away at the point that you release? Basically, I guess there are two ways that you can feel pressure at the finger. Number one is if the club is behind your hands and remaining there and number two is if you're accelerating the club forwards using your finger (ie either the club is applying force to your finger, or your finger is applying force to the club). One is active and the other passive, but it's difficult to distinguish the feeling. I think I'm going to buy the Impact Zone book, because it appears to help this become clearer. Problem I have is I have a big event coming up in four weeks time and I don't want to cloud my mind with a whole bunch of new technical stuff that I don't need right now.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Thanks WorkingOnIt for answering one bit of my post - I've taken that bit out. I'm still curious about how the release fits in with keeping the pressure. Presumably as you push the clubhead away while releasing, that pushing action keeps the pressure up, which is why you want to keep the pressure on for as long as possible.

 

I guess the other thing I have a problem with is sometimes I feel like I get it stuck and it feels like if I release it at all it's going to go about 100 yards left and I end up hanging on to it and I hit it high and WAY right. Off the reservation right. I think this happens because I get steep and outside it and releasing it will hit it left, so I try to keep myself hitting from the inside. Never feel when I swing like my finger might come off the PBS though. Sadly I have no means of videoing my swing. Best I have is this picture:

 

 

 

Not sure if that will help at all or not. I guess a shot from just before impact would be more helpful, but I don't have one of those.

 

Great photo at this location in your stroke you are in between the beginning of follow-through and the end of follow-through. It appears that the left wrist is beginning to bend a bit. Sense your trigger finger trailing or lagging a bit more this will maintain the bend in your right wrist and the flat left wrist condition through the impact interval. By doing so you will sustain the line of compression which is downwards and outwards toward the bottom of your swing arc or Low Point (LP). Low Point is opposite of the left shoulder here is a pic that might help.

 

 

[Ty_Webb]

Thanks Jeff, very helpful. Out of curiosity, does the flat left wrist depend on your grip? Presumably for someone like Paul Azinger who had I think four knuckles on his left hand showing, if he has a flat left wrist at impact, the club would be pointing at about 7.30 (where 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock is your target line)?

[Jeff Evans]

Good point, Zinger is uncocking the left wrist only do to his super strong grip or Strong Single Underhand Action Grip Type.

[dssxxxx]

Nice pup.....

 

Here was the full set before we had to put the old guy down.

 

On the left is Murphy (going to be 4 in May), Bubba (English White in the middle - 8 in September) and Wrigley (put down 9 months ago @ age 12 1/2).

 

Goldens = best dogs around. Love to chase golf balls............. :friends:

 

Hope to try out this gadget soon with some positive results.

[Jeff Evans]

Nice pup.....

 

Here was the full set before we had to put the old guy down.

 

On the left is Murphy (going to be 4 in May), Bubba (English White in the middle - 8 in September) and Wrigley (put down 9 months ago @ age 12 1/2).

 

Goldens = best dogs around. Love to chase golf balls............. :friends:

 

Hope to try out this gadget soon with some positive results.

 

These guys are wonderful friends.

 

Sorry this is off topic!

 

Back to the thread please keep us posted with all your feed-back and experience.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[avrag]

So far I have only had one opportunity to practice outdoors on a grass range with the PBS. I have mixed feelings, because even with the PBS on the club, I had a hard time feeling the lag pressure, because my throwaway problem is obviously really bad. I tried the 4 on, 4 off drill cycle and a few other things. Frustrating thing was that I did hit one shot with the PBS on the club, which showed me what could be. 8iron which carried about 150 meters, which is usually my 5iron distance. I was awestruck by the way the impact felt and sounded, but I have a hard time believing I will ever be able to do this consistently. It was more the feeling of all the stars aligning and pure coincidence, so that for once in my life I could feel, what a real golf shot should feel like. Still, I'll keep on trying.

[Jeff Evans]

So far I have only had one opportunity to practice outdoors on a grass range with the PBS. I have mixed feelings, because even with the PBS on the club, I had a hard time feeling the lag pressure, because my throwaway problem is obviously really bad. I tried the 4 on, 4 off drill cycle and a few other things. Frustrating thing was that I did hit one shot with the PBS on the club, which showed me what could be. 8iron which carried about 150 meters, which is usually my 5iron distance. I was awestruck by the way the impact felt and sounded, but I have a hard time believing I will ever be able to do this consistently. It was more the feeling of all the stars aligning and pure coincidence, so that for once in my life I could feel, what a real golf shot should feel like. Still, I'll keep on trying.

 

avrag,

 

 

When doing the 32 Ball Drill stick with one thought or feeling at a time. If you change thoughts or feeling in the middle of the 32 ball drill the brain may become confused. Great stuff keep me posted BTW what is your handicap? Thanks for sharing.

[avrag]

So far I have only had one opportunity to practice outdoors on a grass range with the PBS. I have mixed feelings, because even with the PBS on the club, I had a hard time feeling the lag pressure, because my throwaway problem is obviously really bad. I tried the 4 on, 4 off drill cycle and a few other things. Frustrating thing was that I did hit one shot with the PBS on the club, which showed me what could be. 8iron which carried about 150 meters, which is usually my 5iron distance. I was awestruck by the way the impact felt and sounded, but I have a hard time believing I will ever be able to do this consistently. It was more the feeling of all the stars aligning and pure coincidence, so that for once in my life I could feel, what a real golf shot should feel like. Still, I'll keep on trying.

 

avrag,

 

 

When doing the 32 Ball Drill stick with one thought or feeling at a time. If you change thoughts or feeling in the middle of the 32 ball drill the brain may become confused. Great stuff keep me posted BTW what is your handicap? Thanks for sharing.

 

Well, I just tried in my backyard and in my hallway in front of a mirror for half an hour to recognize the spot of maximum pressure. I went from the top of the backswing to the impact position, first in slo-mo, than a little faster, but not at full speed. Result: Throughout the downswing I feel the highest amount of pressure in my left hand, where the last two fingers press the grip against the heelpad. It doesn't matter, if I use overlap or interlock, if the grip is weak or strong, that's always the spot where all the energy seems to build up. And my left hand grip has the heelpad very much on top of the club, I've learned that.

Hcp is a very steady European 18, with decent driving and half decent short game and putting, but I cannot hit a reasonable full shot with anything from 5iron to 9iron from the fairway. Very steady meaning that I shot exactly 88, 90 or 92 (no mulligans, no gimmies) in each of my last 15 full rounds in 2008 on my home course which is about 6.600 yds with narrow fairways and small greens.

I'll keep you updated after my practice on Sunday. Only got the weekends right now until daylight saving time starts.

[avrag]

Well, I think I was wrong to expect some sort of instant revelation or a "Heureka!" moment. It is more of a gradual evolution and improvement with the PBS. I did 3 full 32-ball drills with 3 different clubs and 3 different types of shots today. The strongest feeling of lag pressure certainly happened when I hit punch shots with a 9 iron, which is my go-to shot anyway, because I have those troubles with full iron shots. When hitting pitches with a 52°-wedge, the feeling of lag pressure increased gradually from set to set. Finally, full swings with an 8-iron, which also provided me with a slow gradual improvement of lag and impact, which resulted in increasing length from set to set.

Unfortunately, it was raining like crazy, so I was restricted to hitting balls from covered stalls and mats, I would have preferred real grass obviously, as the "fat shot" is my most common mistake. But I'll just stick with this sort of practice right now. And hopefully, come April, I'll have the opportunity to do it on two or three evenings per week after work as well.

[Jeff Evans]

Well, I think I was wrong to expect some sort of instant revelation or a "Heureka!" moment. It is more of a gradual evolution and improvement with the PBS. I did 3 full 32-ball drills with 3 different clubs and 3 different types of shots today. The strongest feeling of lag pressure certainly happened when I hit punch shots with a 9 iron, which is my go-to shot anyway, because I have those troubles with full iron shots. When hitting pitches with a 52°-wedge, the feeling of lag pressure increased gradually from set to set. Finally, full swings with an 8-iron, which also provided me with a slow gradual improvement of lag and impact, which resulted in increasing length from set to set.

Unfortunately, it was raining like crazy, so I was restricted to hitting balls from covered stalls and mats, I would have preferred real grass obviously, as the "fat shot" is my most common mistake. But I'll just stick with this sort of practice right now. And hopefully, come April, I'll have the opportunity to do it on two or three evenings per week after work as well.

 

Slow but sure progress that is the way to go!

 

Keep up the good work and for sure keep us posted on your results.

[jming]

hey jeff,

 

is there a list of drills that one can do with the pbs? i'm being lazy and don't really want to read all 28 pages of this thread. it'd be cool to print a list of different things one can do with this and then put it in my golf bag along with the pbs. maybe something you can put on your website?

 

today at my practice session i would alternate hitting 3-5 shots with the pbs and then 3-5 w/o the pbs. of each 3-5 i'd also alternate hit a half swing and then hit full swing. i did this from my wedges all the way up to the 3 wood. i really felt the lag in my right index finger as well as pressure in my left pinky and ring fingers and the light bulb just went on today. this thing is magic! i have been taking my lessons and working on my swing but the pbs not only helped me with lag, but also helped me to focus on stayin on plane through my backswing, come from the inside more on plane (i was coming over the top slightly before), and i'm definitely striking the ball better with an increase in swing speed. also, after i've hit the ball it helped to focus and rotating my right hand through instead of leaving it open which would cause push/fade shots. i was hitting straight shots as well as plenty of sweet draws, something i haven't done in a while. at many points in the swing you can feel it. at the end of my session i hit a few drivers w/o the pbs and was smoking them. i've never hit them so well. for everyone else who's thinking about this gizmo, give this thing a try!!

[dssxxxx]

Well Jeff, thank you for the quick shipping. Received today.

 

Also, do agree with the above poster that writing a brief drill that can be printed out would be of great help to many people.

 

Also, will have to wait until March 27 to try out this little gadget when I get to FL. Our range is closed until April 1 and I don't hit my clubs off mats. I have them checked for lie/loft a few times a year.

[arny660]

I`m afraid I`m going to have to bow out and forget about the PBS. I spent hours over the weekend working with it, but to no avail. If anything, it made things worse. I ordered it because of all the good feedback here but it certainly hasn`t worked for me. Pity.

[Josh The Nosh]

I have a Drill for you, this is really for people who strugle with casting as i do and dont really know what lag feels like.

 

This is just a well known drill with the pbs thrown in.

 

First part is the good old Drag n lag. which is basicly a one piece takeaway, but really feel like your upper body core is starting the swing, if done right the club will lag a little bit behind your hands (can take practice to re programe the brain to let this happen)

 

Your wrists should feel really loose, so dont intentionaly try and go for an early wrist ****, just rotate the core as normal. take the feeling the only way your ending your back swing is by starting the down swing. i mean you have to think if you dont start the down swing with the hips the back swing will go on forever :)

 

as you start the down swing the change of direction and the weight of the club head gravity will make the wrists **** and the angle of your left wrist /shaft will increase a ton. (float loading)

 

you do this correctly there is just no way you will cast it or the club get ahead of your hands unless you intentionally throw them.

 

So with the PBS just as you feel that weight as the transtion starts and the angles increase put as much pressure as you can on it (this does not mean grip the club as tightly as you can ) aim that pressure at your aiming point.

 

If you dont create shaft lean and lag doing this i will eat my brand new mizuno cap!

 

Now if you want to control the lag dont ask me, but this will help you know what lag is :)

 

Try it it might help it might not. but dont give up :)

[avrag]

So with the PBS just as you feel that weight as the transtion starts and the angles increase put as much pressure as you can on it (this does not mean grip the club as tightly as you can ) aim that pressure at your aiming point.

 

If you dont create shaft lean and lag doing this i will eat my brand new mizuno cap!

 

Now if you want to control the lag dont ask me, but this will help you know what lag is :)

 

I totally second that.

If you ever want to hit a monstrous uncontrollable high hook that goes about 40 yards further than your normal shot with that particular iron, but feels like heaven, just try this. You should hit one of those within ten tries.

After that you'll wonder how you will be able to reproduce that, and if you can, you'll wonder how you will learn to control that power you never knew about. But that's a nice problem to have. Definitely a nicer problem than hitting all your iron shots really short, because you hit the ground and the ball at the same time and spend all your power in the first third of your downswing.

[JackB1]

I have a Drill for you, this is really for people who strugle with casting as i do and dont really know what lag feels like.

 

This is just a well known drill with the pbs thrown in.

 

First part is the good old Drag n lag. which is basicly a one piece takeaway, but really feel like your upper body core is starting the swing, if done right the club will lag a little bit behind your hands (can take practice to re programe the brain to let this happen)

 

Your wrists should feel really loose, so dont intentionaly try and go for an early wrist ****, just rotate the core as normal. take the feeling the only way your ending your back swing is by starting the down swing. i mean you have to think if you dont start the down swing with the hips the back swing will go on forever :)

 

as you start the down swing the change of direction and the weight of the club head gravity will make the wrists **** and the angle of your left wrist /shaft will increase a ton. (float loading)

 

you do this correctly there is just no way you will cast it or the club get ahead of your hands unless you intentionally throw them.

 

So with the PBS just as you feel that weight as the transtion starts and the angles increase put as much pressure as you can on it (this does not mean grip the club as tightly as you can ) aim that pressure at your aiming point.

 

If you dont create shaft lean and lag doing this i will eat my brand new mizuno cap!

 

Now if you want to control the lag dont ask me, but this will help you know what lag is :)

 

Try it it might help it might not. but dont give up :)

 

I wrote a thread about this here....

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=236276

[arny660]

Thanks a lot guys. I will give it a go. You are all really decent blokes for spending time and effort helping others that you don`t even know. Thanks again.

[Josh The Nosh]

Jack One of the best threads on here no doubt :)

[MCK500]

Hmmm....is this TGM?

[Josh The Nosh]

Avrag you cursed me! i was hitting so many hooks today!

 

I was pratcing using the pbs today, i only use it when im practcing my lag. and i just dont get how poeple arnt gettign it to work for them. every time i put it on the club i hit the ball with a really high piercing flight. i dont use it too often as ive said before as it feels like cheating and i want to be able to get that feeling myself with out it.

 

But its litreally put pbs on the club get a good grip, take your back swing start down swing as you normally would hips etc, then feel pressure on the pbs from the base of the triger finger.

 

maybe your trying to hard?

[avrag]

Avrag you cursed me! i was hitting so many hooks today!

 

I was pratcing using the pbs today, i only use it when im practcing my lag. and i just dont get how poeple arnt gettign it to work for them. every time i put it on the club i hit the ball with a really high piercing flight. i dont use it too often as ive said before as it feels like cheating and i want to be able to get that feeling myself with out it.

 

But its litreally put pbs on the club get a good grip, take your back swing start down swing as you normally would hips etc, then feel pressure on the pbs from the base of the triger finger.

 

maybe your trying to hard?

 

Sorry for that, ;)

What I really meant was for the poster who wanted to give up on it. Actually, the first shot, in which I really felt "IT", was that sort of majestic hook, but I was happy about it nonetheless, because the transfer of power I felt was incredible. And, as I said, the shot was way longer than what I normally hit that iron. There is a tendency to hook for me, when I get the lag pressure right, but that's ok. I used to be a "badly cured slicer" as Brian Manzella puts it. Meaning that I never sliced and always hit it straight because I flipped and manipulated my hands so that I wouldn't slice. With the PBS drills, I am slowly getting to where I want to be.

Again, I believe that those kinds of hooks are a sign that I am finally doing something right.

[Josh The Nosh]

well, its better than an OTT path, just need to get that face right

[stabbinatit]

Just placed my order.

[JackB1]

Avrag you cursed me! i was hitting so many hooks today!

 

I was pratcing using the pbs today, i only use it when im practcing my lag. and i just dont get how poeple arnt gettign it to work for them. every time i put it on the club i hit the ball with a really high piercing flight. i dont use it too often as ive said before as it feels like cheating and i want to be able to get that feeling myself with out it.

 

But its litreally put pbs on the club get a good grip, take your back swing start down swing as you normally would hips etc, then feel pressure on the pbs from the base of the triger finger.

 

maybe your trying to hard?

 

 

Do you feel the pressure pushing towards the target on your downswing with your right index finger?  Also is the pressure in the middle joint of the index finger or the bottom joint?  For reference, I am picturing the index finger split into 3 joints, separated by the creases formed when you bend the finger....the top joint is the tip of the finger, the middle is between the 1st & 2nd knuckle and the bottom joint closest to the palm.  My confusion is in that I have seen some teachers emphasize pressure in the middle joint, pressing "upward" and some emphasize pressure in the bottom joint, pressing towards the target.  Which is correct?

[avrag]

Avrag you cursed me! i was hitting so many hooks today!

 

I was pratcing using the pbs today, i only use it when im practcing my lag. and i just dont get how poeple arnt gettign it to work for them. every time i put it on the club i hit the ball with a really high piercing flight. i dont use it too often as ive said before as it feels like cheating and i want to be able to get that feeling myself with out it.

 

But its litreally put pbs on the club get a good grip, take your back swing start down swing as you normally would hips etc, then feel pressure on the pbs from the base of the triger finger.

 

maybe your trying to hard?

 

 

Do you feel the pressure pushing towards the target on your downswing with your right index finger? Also is the pressure in the middle joint of the index finger or the bottom joint? For reference, I am picturing the index finger split into 3 joints, separated by the creases formed when you bend the finger....the top joint is the tip of the finger, the middle is between the 1st & 2nd knuckle and the bottom joint closest to the palm. My confusion is in that I have seen some teachers emphasize pressure in the middle joint, pressing "upward" and some emphasize pressure in the bottom joint, pressing towards the target. Which is correct?

 

I don't know which is correct, but I get the best results in terms of power, when the pressure is on the bottom joint and I feel the forefinger is pressing slightly downward.

I'll add this, because I just read Nick Price's book: He writes that it isn't even in the right forefinger itself, but rather in the pad of the right hand, where the forefinger meets the palm. I have tried to get it there, but only in a short practice session, with no permanent results yet. In that case, the bottom joint of the forefinger is sort of behind the shaft through impact, and the pad just next to it is behind and on top of the shaft. This seems to blend power and control best, but I will get blisters there. Working on those turning into calluses, and then I should be good to go ;) . Unfortunately there is only a drawing of the "good" calluses spots on the left hand and not the right in Hogan's Five Lessons, but Jeff wrote in another thread, in replying to one of my posts, that almost all Tour players have calluses on the bottom joint of the right forefinger, just where it joins the palm. So this should be the spot, I suppose.

[JackB1]

I don't know which is correct, but I get the best results in terms of power, when the pressure is on the bottom joint and I feel the forefinger is pressing slightly downward.

 

thats what I thought.  If you swing with the index finger off the club in a "pointing" position, you can really feel the pressure in the area of the bottom joint and right where the palm meets the finger.  I often wonder why more players don't swing with the finger pointing like that all the time?

It's got to provide better results than pinching and over involvoing the index finger and thumb.

[Jeff Evans]

A Few Drills

 

Insure correct placement of the Pure Ball Striker (See Instructions)

Begin with Chipping Motions first and monitor hands. Keep hands leading the clubhead through the impact zone AKA the impact interval. (See 32 Ball Drill)

Move to Pitching Motions monitor hands. Keep hands leading the clubhead through (IZ). Note with pitching add bit of a pivot. (See 32 Ball Drill)

Total motion allow stroke to grow to full stroke motion. Monitor the condition of the hands as above. Continue to allow the pivot to grow (See 32 Ball Drill)

 

What to look for and note ball first contact with impact hands. Impact hands are a flat left wrist and a bent right wrist. Direct hands to in front of the ball to insure a forward leaning clubshaft and a lagging clubhead at impact. Remember the Pure Ball Striker will help the player sense their feel of the lagging clubhead so don’t rush the motion.

[poktangju]

ok i've read all the posts and i'm gonna order one when i get home.....i'm not knowledgable in tgm but from reading all the posts there are 4 pressure points and the pbs focuses on pp #3. my question is should there be pressure on the other 3 pressure points?

[resist_hard.]

I just ordered a PBS and sent jeff an email. Looking forward to using it when it comes :)