Las Vegas - Rio Secco -- Need advice Please!!!

vegas005 · January 6, 2009

Hi all...have 8 tee times booked end of January 2009 for Rio Secco. I am in charge of our super bowl party golf outing this year and I booked Wolf Creek, Badlands and Rio Secco. I am very worried about Rio Secco after reading a few of the comments on this board. Would love to hear from anyone who has current information on the condition of the course. Any recommendations to replace Rio or badlands would be appreciated!!

Good Golfing!

Sam

CLA225 · January 6, 2009

This been awhile since I have played there... But I suggest Talking to the head Pro @ the course... If I think there maybe a issue after reading the reviews, I always call the Pro and call him out on it... Explain your issue and that you need him to shoot you str8, This approach has never failed me...

Mainlinegolfer · January 6, 2009

I have strong opinions on LV golf-- from personal experience and from participating on golf message boards for many years. I've played virtually all the courses in LV and, in gerneral, I"m definitely not a fan of Las Vegas golf, especially when it comes to tourists getting quality golf for their money. I frequently had to be in LV for business and personal reasons, so I often spent free time playing golf. Out of towners just get ripped-off, especially during an event like Super Bowl weekend.

I'm not a fan of Rio Seco (expensive and too many houses lining the course) or Badlands (Johnny Miller target golf and really cold if the desert wind blows in). Wolf Creek is worth the drive to play once or twice. As I've written before, there are some OK golf courses for OK prices (especially in this economic environment) and there is crap-- both cheap crap and expensive crap. I don't happen think that Shadow Creek and Cascata are worth the money (still $500?). I haven't played the new Wynn course.

It would be useful to know more about whether you want great golf, good golf or, um, just golf. Also, what's your budget and your group's playing ability? Do you just want a little golf added to the usual drinking, gambling, chasing women, and watching football, or serious, challenging, high-end golf (at a commensurate price)? One disclaimer, I have not been to LV for a year, so while I have played the courses, I don't know about current conditioning standards. Hopefully, LV residents will chime in.

As far as tactics to reduce costs, it helps to know LV residents and/or get comped through the hotels/casinos. For some better golf, try to get access to a private club through your home pro, if possible (it won't be cheap either). Obviously, there are several LV golf websites and the individual courses have their own websites. Also, as I suspect you know, aranging golf during Super Bowl weekend will be a challenge and not prone to obtainsing bargains. But what the hell, it's only money, right?

It's only my opinion, but when I want great golf I sure don't have LV on my short list. LV for gambling and night life, maybe; but not good golf value and certainly not for great golf.

PINGeye24ever · January 6, 2009

i played rio in july it was awesome in my opinion if you stay at any of the harrahs resorts youll save like 20 dollars. from the back tees its really long, and i found the view and condition of the course tremendous.

vegas005 · January 7, 2009

I have strong opinions on LV golf-- from personal experience and from participating on golf message boards for many years. I've played virtually all the courses in LV and, in gerneral, I"m definitely not a fan of Las Vegas golf, especially when it comes to tourists getting quality golf for their money. I frequently had to be in LV for business and personal reasons, so I often spent free time playing golf. Out of towners just get ripped-off, especially during an event like Super Bowl weekend.

I'm not a fan of Rio Seco (expensive and too many houses lining the course) or Badlands (Johnny Miller target golf and really cold if the desert wind blows in). Wolf Creek is worth the drive to play once or twice. As I've written before, there are some OK golf courses for OK prices (especially in this economic environment) and there is crap-- both cheap crap and expensive crap. I don't happen think that Shadow Creek and Cascata are worth the money (still $500?). I haven't played the new Wynn course.

It would be useful to know more about whether you want great golf, good golf or, um, just golf. Also, what's your budget and your group's playing ability? Do you just want a little golf added to the usual drinking, gambling, chasing women, and watching football, or serious, challenging, high-end golf (at a commensurate price)? One disclaimer, I have not been to LV for a year, so while I have played the courses, I don't know about current conditioning standards. Hopefully, LV residents will chime in.

As far as tactics to reduce costs, it helps to know LV residents and/or get comped through the hotels/casinos. For some better golf, try to get access to a private club through your home pro, if possible (it won't be cheap either). Obviously, there are several LV golf websites and the individual courses have their own websites. Also, as I suspect you know, aranging golf during Super Bowl weekend will be a challenge and not prone to obtainsing bargains. But what the hell, it's only money, right?

It's only my opinion, but when I want great golf I sure don't have LV on my short list. LV for gambling and night life, maybe; but not good golf value and certainly not for great golf.

Mainelinegolfer,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. In general I agree with your comments, but let me give you a little more background.

Our group of golfers have been gathering for many years to enjoy the Superbowl weekend. Originally we were all located in the south and we really struggled to find good weather during the last week of January. We froze to death in Myrtle Beach, had rain and hard wind on the coast of Mississippi, paid a fortune for cold and wind in Austin, Texas and finally we tried Las Vegas. In general we have had good weather and we have played some decent courses. The fact that we are now spread all over the world (I come from Switzerland) has made Las Vegas and easy place to meet, golf, eat and have stuff for the wives that don't golf to do as well.

Last three years in Las Vegas

Primm Valley (both courses) 3 years ago -- had great greens and we had a good outing (we stayed in Primm -- folks not interested in staying again)

Paiute Wolf and Sun - 2 years ago -- courses were in good shape and I was able to get great rates.

A collection of crap courses last year...so bad I want to forget the names...Aliante, Paiute Wolf (which was in terrible condition), and Las Vegas National which was in poor shape.

So -- due to poor performance from the course selector last year, I was once again chosen to come up with the right mix of courses.

As for the players - 2 players scratch, 3 under 11 handicap and a couple around 15.

Course Criteria -

Great greens -- a must!

Not in a housing development

Generous landing areas from the tee... don't want to spend all day in the scrub

not overly crowded

Price in the 150 range is ok with everyone.

I value your opinion and look forward to the feedback.

Cheers.

Bombn · January 7, 2009

Outside of Primm and Paiute, there are no courses that are "Not in a housing development".

That being said, there are some better choices. In order of recommendation,

1. TPC Las Vegas (used to be TPC Canyons) has some of the best greens in town and a great layout. This course is MUCH better than Bandlands, in condition and layout.

2. Bear's Best also is known for its over all condition, and the layout is great.

3. Reflection Bay at Lake Las Vegas is another course that is always in good shape and is a very nice track.

Personally, Rio is a bit gimmicky. I would just as well play Concord or Lexington at The Revere Golf Club, which are generally less expensive, and just around the corner. Some times you can get play on Dragon Ridge (also in the same area) and this course is MUCH better than the prior three. Dragon Ridge is a private club, but has struggled and has very few members and therefore the public can get play on it with some connections.

Deals can sometimes be found on eBay, Craigslist and Golfnow so dont be afraid to check these out.

MGWP · January 7, 2009

Rio would not be on my list of courses to play in Vegas..

the two at Lake Las Vegas are much better and worth the drive.

The Falls course had some specatcular vistas..that and Wolf Creek would be my first two coices...other than Shadow Creek of course.

tbowles411 · January 7, 2009

And if you can swing it, swing for a T-Mate caddy. I had a buddy do that. He said it definately made the round more interesting! :D

bharpling · January 7, 2009

Try The Chase at Coyote Springs, a new Nicklaus design in the middle of no where about 45 minutes outside of Vegas.

Mainlinegolfer · January 7, 2009

Mainelinegolfer,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. In general I agree with your comments, but let me give you a little more background.

Our group of golfers have been gathering for many years to enjoy the Superbowl weekend. Originally we were all located in the south and we really struggled to find good weather during the last week of January. We froze to death in Myrtle Beach, had rain and hard wind on the coast of Mississippi, paid a fortune for cold and wind in Austin, Texas and finally we tried Las Vegas. In general we have had good weather and we have played some decent courses. The fact that we are now spread all over the world (I come from Switzerland) has made Las Vegas and easy place to meet, golf, eat and have stuff for the wives that don't golf to do as well.

Last three years in Las Vegas

Primm Valley (both courses) 3 years ago -- had great greens and we had a good outing (we stayed in Primm -- folks not interested in staying again)
Paiute Wolf and Sun - 2 years ago -- courses were in good shape and I was able to get great rates.
A collection of crap courses last year...so bad I want to forget the names...Aliante, Paiute Wolf (which was in terrible condition), and Las Vegas National which was in poor shape.

So -- due to poor performance from the course selector last year, I was once again chosen to come up with the right mix of courses.
As for the players - 2 players scratch, 3 under 11 handicap and a couple around 15.

Course Criteria -
Great greens -- a must!
Not in a housing development
Generous landing areas from the tee... don't want to spend all day in the scrub
not overly crowded
Price in the 150 range is ok with everyone.
I value your opinion and look forward to the feedback.
Cheers.

Your criteria are a bit difficult to meet. Better weather (and golf) are elsewhere, but I certainly understand the attractions of LV.

First, I can't comment on current conditions of greens and overall courses or if there are any green aeration, over-seeding, or other renovations are underway. I just don't have recent experience.

Second, obviously LV golf courses tend to be built to accompany (and help sell) housing developments (without much success these days).

$150 green fee is hard - probably in the middle range.

So, my votes are:

No, on Badlands (narrow, target golf)

Maybe, on Rio. Only if convenient and price is discounted (some LV views along with houses).

Just a thought: Blend some lower-end golf (expectations are lower, good to warm-up on or for second round of the day). Add some high-end courses ($250+) in order to result in an average around $150.

I would have suggested driving to Primm and Paiute complex. However, last year Paiute Wolf was not in great condition, but it WAS a good deal.

Yes, on driving up (1 hour) to Wolf Creek from LV. Very dramatic course-- see website pictures. The first round is difficult and you will lose some golf balls because of changes in elevation, water/desert hazards, and not knowing how much to cut off on doglegs (difficult to pull correct club).

Decent for the money - Rhodes Ranch. Same for one of the Revere courses (forget which). Haven't played Dragon Ridge.

You probably know there is a lot of crap -- but I suppose some basic golf might be tolerable if it is cheap and convenient enough and your expectations are low enough i.e. if jet lagged or hungover). However, it's hard to find "value for money" in LV.

High End worth considering:

Reflection Bay

The Falls

(Consider staying in Lake Las Vegas if you want to avoid glitz of the Strip. If that's EXACTLY what you DO want, then ignore this suggestion!

Southern Highlands - if you can get on (private club). Not cheap.

TPC Summerlin - private and not bad, if you can get on; TPC LV (fka TPC Canyons is public. Not cheap.

Ultra High End - $500 (if you must and they are in perfect condition):

Shadow Creek

Cascata

Wynn - not familiar with and don't know price.

* Callaway Golf Center - at airport. Lighted nine hole par 3 course and driving range. Also, Callaway fitting center, if interested.

I've also lived in Europe and played golf all over the world and U.S.. IMO, LV's overall negatives (including golf) just don't offset its positives (gambling, restaurants and nightlife). Clearly, many others have a different opinion and to be fair, I usually did not go LV on holiday (long story).

Jetlv25 · January 7, 2009

Living in Vegas I can tell you we have had a very cold last few weeks that has caused the grass to brown much more than it had been.

My take: I would not include Badlands, I would replace it with TPC Vegas(canyons) or Bears Best. Both are in the Summerlin area. Personally I like Rio Secco, but it is not an easy course at all and is not what I would call an easy driving course.....for higher cappers be prepared to lose some balls. Both of the public courses at the lakes are excellent (Reflection Bay and The Falls). Boulder Creek in Boulder City is a very nice and more affordable course (30 minute drive) as are both courses at Primm.

Bear's Best would probably be a very good course. Challenging from the tips but is fairly generous with the fairways. Good all around mix without being too difficult. I played it 2 weeks ago and it was in good shape. The new Nicklaus course at Coyote Springs is supposed to be very nice but I have not seen it yet. If there is anything else I can help you with let me know.

Bombn · January 7, 2009

Try The Chase at Coyote Springs, a new Nicklaus design in the middle of no where about 45 minutes outside of Vegas.

Not a real option in January, as it is a good 10+ degrees colder up there than in town, mostly in the 40's up there still.

One note on "The Falls" at Lake Las Vegas, I have not played there in a while so I can't comment on the condition. HOWEVER, the entire Lake Las Vegas Vegas development is in bankruptcy and the receiver is trying to abandon the golf course, hence I doubt they are spending the $$ to take care of the course.

reference: http://www.lvrj.com/business/36619994.html

Reflection Bay (the better of the two courses at Lake Las Vegas) has always had the highest demand and they are expected to keep this course.

In short, if you want to make sure you have a place to play and be in great condition = skip The Falls.

Also, definitely skip Rhodes Ranch, I played there last week and the greens were in poor condition. Its really nothing more than an average course in town, maybe a C+ or B- at best. I would only play there if the fee's were under $100. Sienna or The Arroyo at Red Rock are MUCH better courses for about the same $$$.

VegasGolfer · January 8, 2009

Bali Hai is also a good option. Course is always in great condition. Can be expensive at times but with the current state of the economy, if you call them you can usually work out a deal. Close to the strip is a plus.

Mainlinegolfer · January 8, 2009

Interesting, I was not aware of the Lake Las Vegas development's financial problems. Seems obvious now that you mention it, given the depressed real estate market. As I said, I can't comment on current course conditions, I don't know about Bali Hai. It seems to command a premium price just because of its location across from the airport. t think its just too expensive for the quality of golf, but if the price is OK, it IS convenient to the Strip. I don't disagree with the B- rating for Rhodes Ranch but I was always able to get on for $60-$90 dollars and I couldn't get as good a deal at Sienna.

I just don't think there are courses in LV that are MUST plays compared to the world's really great courses and therefore none are worth the spending a lot of money on. I've played Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Pebble Beach, Bandon, Scotland, Ireland and other really great courses and I'm willing to pay what it takes for great golf. LV has nothing worth the exorbitant prices. (and Pebble is also no longer worth it at $450!).

mohacker · January 8, 2009

can u get one of these to caddy for you at any of the other courses thogh?

tbowles411 · January 8, 2009

can u get one of these to caddy for you at any of the other courses thogh?

Tee mates! The one on the far right, kneeling...oh my... :D

vegas005 · January 8, 2009

Many thanks for all the wonderful replies. Will let you know what we decide!

mljones99 · January 10, 2009

I played Rio Secco and Reflection Bay the first week of June '08 and had a blast at both. The fairways at Reflection Bay were all ripped apart but I'm sure they are fine now. I enjoyed Rio Secco much, much better though in all aspects. course conditions, course layout, course staff, etc... Here are pictures from both....

Rio Secco

http://www.pbase.com/mljones99/rio_secco

Reflection Bay

http://www.pbase.com/mljones99/reflection_bay

tbowles411 · January 11, 2009

What? No pics of the Tee mates?! ;) Beautiful courses!

SCFgolfs · January 11, 2009

Try The Chase at Coyote Springs, a new Nicklaus design in the middle of no where about 45 minutes outside of Vegas.

This course is awesome and worth the drive, like someone mentioned there are few courses that aren't in a housing development.. I've been fortunate to be able to play almost everything here and it's outstanding.

Rio is not worth more than $100 (I can play there for $20-30 bucks and don't, sorry Harrahz lol). BTW the tee-mates are not cute in real ife.

Rivere Lexington is better and cheaper with nice greens right now.

Dragonridge and Anthem CC are the best in that area and they have been allowing some outside play in the past year. Not sure what the rate is for visitors ( you get raped pretty much everywhere in vegas) but these courses are quality and are at least somewhat worthy of a $200 green fee.

Bear's Best I played this week and it was in as nice shape as it's been since last spring, I enjoy the layout there are some great holes there.

TPC Vegas- Pretty decent shape, good track but some idiot put a bunch of canyons all over the place.

Badlands is in nice shape but it's tricked up target golf and sorta pisses most people off.. I actually like it because it improves your game to play it regularly.

Boulder Creek is a 20-30 min commute thats a good track, haven't seen it in a few weeks but it was pure recently for a tournament.

Bali Hai- Unique, Fun layout/views, and pure condtions recently. Loud and Expensive!

Royal Links- Maybe the best layout in Vegas IMO, but... suspect conditions since 02' On the plus side they have sluttier Tee Mates than RIO. :russian_roulette:

Desert Pines- Meh, ok I guess.

LV National- Another good Design, s*** greens lately.

Bombn · January 16, 2009

.............
One note on "The Falls" at Lake Las Vegas, I have not played there in a while so I can't comment on the condition. HOWEVER, the entire Lake Las Vegas Vegas development is in bankruptcy and the receiver is trying to abandon the golf course, hence I doubt they are spending the $$ to take care of the course.

reference: http://www.lvrj.com/business/36619994.html

Reflection Bay (the better of the two courses at Lake Las Vegas) has always had the highest demand and they are expected to keep this course.

In short, if you want to make sure you have a place to play and be in great condition = skip The Falls.

........

Well, bad news for The Falls the judge ruled today that Lake Las Vegas can abandon golf course.