altitude adjustment calculation

[linus]

help settle a bet

Is there a standard rule of thumb for how much farther a ball flies for every 1000 ft of elevation change? Percentage would work. Or, at what altitude do you club down one club?

And here is the bet: does altitude impact distance alone or distance and how high the ball flies? I say both and that altitude is has a negative affect on loft.

[Bravesox]

Calgary is around 4500 and pros say it adds 10% not sure if that helps

[seypat]

Back in the dayI used to play a course in New Mexico at 9000 Ft. The Lodge was it's name. I think we had to add between 20-25%. If I remember correctly the first hole is a par 4 around 240 yards with a 150 ft drop between the tee and green. The green looks like a speck way below you. You can only see it from the front of the tee box. By far the craziest tee shot I have encountered! You figure out your club and then launch it. The ball rockets off, apexes, runs out of steam and then freefalls forever! You're eyes are glued to it the whole way hoping you picked the right club. Then it finally reenters the atmosphere and reaches earth. Much to your dismay, it lands about 40 yards long of the green! By the end of the week you have clubbed all the way back to a 6,7 or 8. Very surreal! If you top it, the ball rolls all the way down the mountain almost to the green! Then you have to get on the cart and make your way down the path like a runaway train with the brakes on hard. Very exciting! #9 is the direct opposite! A 7 or 8 will go about as far as the driver because of the upward elevation change. If you ever have a chance play it. It is a great resort and getaway. Gorgous scenery! The Lodge in Cloudcroft New Mexico. The course is easy but all of the challenge comes in hitting the right distances.

[Deadpool_25]

About 2 to 2.5% per 1000 feet isn't it?

[XLSDRAW]

I play my winter golf in Central Florida on a flat course at 50' above sea level. I play my summer golf in Montana on a flat course at 5300' above sea level. I find that adding 10% in Montana works well. So 2% per 1000' is fairly accurate. I do not find any trajectory differences between the two elevations. However high humidity days in Florida in the warmer months does slowdown ballspeed.

[marrigo]

However high humidity days in Florida in the warmer months does slowdown ballspeed.

 

That's a common misconception. Actually, "Humid air is slightly lighter or less dense than dry air. And if temperature, pressure, and wind are equal, your ball will go farther in humid air than when the air is dry. This is confusing to some people because we think of water as being heavier and denser than air. That is true of liquid water, but humid air is not liquid; it is a gas (http://www.wxdude.com/humidity.html)". Numerous other references to this if you do a Google search.

[harold baines]

I see you're in CA

 

at sea level compared to lake tahoe, I've noticed almost a full club difference in distance

 

 

I kept hitting the ball 10-15 yards over the greens........

[linus]

Thanks. Yes, I find that I'm a club to club and a half long when I play around Tahoe +/-5500 ft. Funny thing is that I'm also a full club longer when I play in Vegas which is only about 1800 ft. as I recall. Heretofore, I've always attributed that to the hot dry air. Marrigo, I'll need to check out that site. Playing in the thick soupy fog in Monterey I swear I loose distance vs. a clear day. Maybe fog does not equal humidity.

 

Clearly elevation impacts distance. But what about loft? My position on the bet is that elevation has a negative effect on loft. As density altitude incerases, lift decreases.....the same reason a plane needs a longer runway for takeoff at altitude (all else being equal and assuming I remember my flight instruction from many moons ago). Also, i seem to recall watching some tournament where the announcers were talking that the pros had to increase loft of their clubs to offset the loss in trajectory caused by the altitude.

 

Does anyone know why this thread was relocated from the general golf talk to swing/fitness/beginners?

[devlbasher]

Thanks. Yes, I find that I'm a club to club and a half long when I play around Tahoe +/-5500 ft. Funny thing is that I'm also a full club longer when I play in Vegas which is only about 1800 ft. as I recall. Heretofore, I've always attributed that to the hot dry air. Marrigo, I'll need to check out that site. Playing in the thick soupy fog in Monterey I swear I loose distance vs. a clear day. Maybe fog does not equal humidity.

 

Clearly elevation impacts distance. But what about loft? My position on the bet is that elevation has a negative effect on loft. As density altitude incerases, lift decreases.....the same reason a plane needs a longer runway for takeoff at altitude (all else being equal and assuming I remember my flight instruction from many moons ago). Also, i seem to recall watching some tournament where the announcers were talking that the pros had to increase loft of their clubs to offset the loss in trajectory caused by the altitude.

 

Does anyone know why this thread was relocated from the general golf talk to swing/fitness/beginners?

 

I believe that backspin creates a form of lift, which means that theoretically, if you hit a ball with no spin at all at elevation, then it shouldn't affect the loft at all, since the air wouldn't impact the balls "lift", only the balls speed. But since we do hit balls with backspin and the air is less dense at elevation, there is less for the ball to "lift" off of, so it should have a lower trajectory. Its a patchwork job of explaining the physics behind it as I understand it, but maybe it makes sense to someone.

[TEConnor]

About 2 to 2.5% per 1000 feet isn't it?

 

This is roughly correct. I grew up playing around mile high and did so in college. When we would travel to lower altitudes we used +/- 5% for 2500 ft in elevation change. Go to sea level from mile high and you lose 8 to 10 % carry per club.

 

There is also a "rule of thumb" conversion for temperature. The basic formula is based off 70 deg, with every three degrees below that subtract a yard in carry on a mid- to long-iron. Hence, if you are playing in 40 deg temps, you should expect to hit your 200 yard club around 10 yards shorter (roughly 5 %). For temps between 70 and 90 to 95 degrees there is no appreciable change in carry based on temperatures. There is however a common belief among elite and professional players that the new balls are super charged above 95 degrees. Tiger and others made mention of this at Southern Hills this year that the balls were sailing and sailing, with most guys adjusting down by 1/2 club. I mess around with laser yardages a lot in practice and my limited sample shows a roughly 3% increase in carry from the mid 80's temps to the upper 90s.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[ihatebogies]

If you are playing a course that measures 6,700 yards at sea level (assuming it's a flat course) would that be the same as playing a course of about 7,300 yards at 5,000 feet above sea level (also assuming it's a flat course at elevation)?

[jakkim]

I live and play most of my golf in Denver, however I also play a lot in Seattle, LA, and Las Vegas. For me I honestly don't notice much of a difference at all from wedges to the driver I get basically all the same yardages. If anything there may be 5 yard difference at most, but I'm also no pro and don't hit the ball solid every swing. Actually, I was just in Cali and did a complete fitting at Cleveland Golf's fitting studio and noticed no difference. The guy wanted me to start out with my 6 iron which I said I hit 190-200 in Denver so he thought there was no way I would hit that in Cali, but boom...every shot was 190-200 yards.

[TEConnor]

I live and play most of my golf in Denver, however I also play a lot in Seattle, LA, and Las Vegas. For me I honestly don't notice much of a difference at all from wedges to the driver I get basically all the same yardages. If anything there may be 5 yard difference at most, but I'm also no pro and don't hit the ball solid every swing. Actually, I was just in Cali and did a complete fitting at Cleveland Golf's fitting studio and noticed no difference. The guy wanted me to start out with my 6 iron which I said I hit 190-200 in Denver so he thought there was no way I would hit that in Cali, but boom...every shot was 190-200 yards.

 

I can only say that you might want to start charting your carry distances, noting temperatures, and carrying a scope. You may not notice it, but it is there and you are missing something or another variable is in play...

 

Cheers,

Tim

[tdk8180]

I can settle this debate right now.

 

In Denver, I can hit a 4 degree driver with the flight of a 10 degree driver. When I tried hitting a 4 degree in Michigan, it was much lower. MUCH LOWER.

 

In Denver I was averaging 275 to 300 all the time. Misses were going 250 at the least.

 

In Michigan, I average 250 to 265, misses go about 230-240.

 

There is a difference, and I attribute that to the light air. However, I always thought that the elevation change, changes the pressure which in turn affects the flight and typical lift properties on the ball with the dimples. I don't know, but there is a difference.