Scotty without Titleist or vice versa

[Fore_Man]

Note: please do not turn this into a bash session, take this question too personal, or turn this post into a worshiping session. thank you.

 

• Would Scotty Cameron putters be what they are today with our bearing the Titleist name?

 

• Would Titleist putters be what they are today if Scotty's name wasn't on them?

 

• Did Titleist make Scotty Cameron who he is today? OR did Scotty Cameron make Titleist putters what they are today?

 

Think about this please... lets also assume that they never teamed up. Would people be going crazy for Titleist putters? or would they be buying them for $300+ from some guy names Scotty?

 

note: really just curious here... i love my Newport2. It's just weird how things work, similar to the question of would Nike be in golf if they didn't have TW?

[funkyfedora]

JMHO

 

Scotty is just the putter section. Titleist would still be strong with vokeys and their pro v line. Scotty could be strong but Titleist was just a stepping stone for Cameron.

[nobreak1970]

From a non Cameron owner's point of view....I believe that Titelist is the benefactor so to speak in the relationship here. Scotty makes good stuff with or without Titleist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he entered a relationship in the beginning with Titleist to get his work out there to the masses. He doesn't need them anymore for funding that is for sure.

[bk65]

im sure both would be fine if they parted ways......scotty has built such a rep that he would keep the empire going and titleist is a major company so they would quickly find someone to replace him

[Fore_Man]

OK, going to edit my OP here.... i don't think i asked properly

[RobotDoctor]

• Would Scotty Cameron putters be what they are today with our bearing the Titleist name?

 

I think Scotty Cameron would still be making putters but would not be as well known as he is now. He was starting to get a good following among the PGA tour players so who knows what would have happened. I would believe he would still have some ties with former business associates and he would be building putters. You never know, Cameron could have been signed by another large company and made a name for himself with someone else.

 

• Would Titleist putters be what they are today if Scotty's name wasn't on them?

 

I don't think so. While Titleist made putters, those were not huge sellers and certainly not played by many top players, professional or amateur. If it weren't for Cameron, Titleist would still be making putters but for the recreational player.

 

• Did Titleist make Scotty Cameron who he is today? OR did Scotty Cameron make Titleist putters what they are today?

 

The simple answer is Yes to both parts. Cameron offered Titleist a means of providing a high quality putter with his emerging ties to the PGA Tour players. Titleist offered Cameron a even greater presence into the Tour scene and gave validation for his putters with the, seemingly, endless stream of player endorsements and other enticements. Titleist also provided Cameron a Putter Studio where Cameron would develop a revolutionary test lab where the PGA Tour pros flocked to. Why would the pros flock here, because Cameron added science to feel providing a terrific putting improvement system.

 

Think about this please... lets also assume that they never teamed up. Would people be going crazy for Titleist putters? or would they be buying them for $300+ from some guy names Scotty?

 

If Cameron and Titleist did not team up not too many people would be playing Titleist putters had Titleist continued on their putter direction. If Titleist signed some other talented putter maker then maybe we would talk about another person. That is not to say Titleist did everything for Cameron. I believe that Cameron had a huge impact for Titleist just as much as Titleist was huge for Cameron. It appears, as they say, a perfect match.

 

note: really just curious here... i love my Newport2. It's just weird how things work, similar to the question of would Nike be in golf if they didn't have TW?

 

Nike makes golf equipment? ;)

[bbeard10]

This question is asking for the haters and worshippers to surface. I dont think titleist would be quite as well known in the putter industry because I think people grew tired of Acushnet bullseyes and wanted something more with customizable options, thus Scotty gives Titleist the perfect cash cow, and tileist likewise for Mr. Cameron.

[CaliWagon]

• Would Scotty Cameron putters be what they are today with our bearing the Titleist name?

 

I think Scotty Cameron would still be making putters but would not be as well known as he is now. He was starting to get a good following among the PGA tour players so who knows what would have happened. I would believe he would still have some ties with former business associates and he would be building putters. You never know, Cameron could have been signed by another large company and made a name for himself with someone else.

 

• Would Titleist putters be what they are today if Scotty's name wasn't on them?

 

I don't think so. While Titleist made putters, those were not huge sellers and certainly not played by many top players, professional or amateur. If it weren't for Cameron, Titleist would still be making putters but for the recreational player.

 

• Did Titleist make Scotty Cameron who he is today? OR did Scotty Cameron make Titleist putters what they are today?

 

The simple answer is Yes to both parts. Cameron offered Titleist a means of providing a high quality putter with his emerging ties to the PGA Tour players. Titleist offered Cameron a even greater presence into the Tour scene and gave validation for his putters with the, seemingly, endless stream of player endorsements and other enticements. Titleist also provided Cameron a Putter Studio where Cameron would develop a revolutionary test lab where the PGA Tour pros flocked to. Why would the pros flock here, because Cameron added science to feel providing a terrific putting improvement system. A

 

Think about this please... lets also assume that they never teamed up. Would people be going crazy for Titleist putters? or would they be buying them for $300+ from some guy names Scotty?

 

If Cameron and Titleist did not team up not too many people would be playing Titleist putters had Titleist continued on their putter direction. If Titleist signed some other talented putter maker then maybe we would talk about another person. That is not to say Titleist did everything for Cameron. I believe that Cameron had a huge impact for Titleist just as much as Titleist was huge for Cameron. It appears, as they say, a perfect match.

 

note: really just curious here... i love my Newport2. It's just weird how things work, similar to the question of would Nike be in golf if they didn't have TW?

 

Nike makes golf equipment? ;)

 

+1 Couldnt have said it any better.

[rrkman]

I certainly don't know the complete history of this but I think it all depends on why Tiger started using one. Did it have something to do with Titleist?

 

And, I'm sure Titleist would be just fine without him but I'm not sure Cameron would be where he is today without Titleist...but you never know, he still might have found a way to get his putters in the hands of the touring pros - might have been with a different company?

 

Nevermind....while I was typing this another, much better response appeared. I'll leave this but please see post #6.

[RobotDoctor]

This question is asking for the haters and worshippers to surface. I dont think titleist would be quite as well known in the putter industry because I think people grew tired of Acushnet bullseyes and wanted something more with customizable options, thus Scotty gives Titleist the perfect cash cow, and tileist likewise for Mr. Cameron.

 

 

Which one am I? :D :D :D

 

I will say this, because of the association with Titleist, Cameron was able to market his putters in magazines like Golf Digest and Golf. This is where I first heard of this Cameron guy, back in 1995. I was intrigued with this concept of a 100% milled putter so I looked into it. Before I knew it, I purchased my first Cameron, a Catalina, and quickly fell in love with milled putters. For the most part, the days of a cast putter had ended for me. Yes, I have owned 2 or 3 Odyssey putters, they never lasted more than a couple or 3 rounds. I always went back to Cameron. I had a Cameron in my bag every year from 1995 through the end of 2007, gaming much of the 14 Camerons I have owned. While I do not putt with a Cameron today, my putter is still a milled putter and that is a testimonial to Cameron and Titleist. Without their working together, I doubt my entry into the milled putter would have been so early.

[nobreak1970]

In the past, they both "needed" each other. They both helped each other with pure unadulterated REVENUE!

And that's a good partnership in business.

Cameron didn't need Titleist from the beginning no...it may or may not have taken more time to get his name out there...but today, he'd be in the same spot...RICH.

 

Titleist...they'd be in the same spot with all equipment....because if they didn't have the Cameron name on their putters from the beginning.....another name would have surfaced...weather that name would be "famous now" or not...who knows.

 

 

Peace.

[stage1350]

• Would Scotty Cameron putters be what they are today with our bearing the Titleist name?

I think the logical progression of milled putters would have occurred with Cameron putters, though I think he would have spent more time in carbon steel putters than the stainless models of recent years.

 

• Would Titleist putters be what they are today if Scotty's name wasn't on them?

Titleist would have found another name to represent their putters. They had that one guy, John Reuter a while back. He designed a pretty good putter. Someone would have answered the call if Scotty didn't. But I'm not sure they would have the Tour presence that they currently have. Imagine what would have become of Tad Moore if he signed with Titleist and Scotty signed with Maxfli...

 

• Did Titleist make Scotty Cameron who he is today? OR did Scotty Cameron make Titleist putters what they are today?

Both. Scotty couldn't have progressed as he did without OEM backing. He'd still be making Piece of Time custom orders and putters like the Mizuno Reason. Both are fine putters, but without the corporate backing and tee up money, he wouldn't reach the audience that he has.

 

Think about this please... lets also assume that they never teamed up. Would people be going crazy for Titleist putters? or would they be buying them for $300+ from some guy names Scotty?

They would go crazy for Cameron putters, but not necessarily Titleist putters. Most puttermakers have a following and their flock will pay.

[HoosierGolfer]

I think that it is fairly clear that Scotty hooking up with Titleist grew his name and putters by leaps and bounds. Not sure he could have ever climbed the mountain on his own. I think right now they need each other and it appears to be the perfect marriage

However, I am occasionally wrong. :blink:

 

BTW, Great points by stage and Robot!

[Fore_Man]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

[RobotDoctor]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

 

 

You're welcome!

 

As for the question. HECK NO!, absolutely not. I remember that I wanted a Catalina soooooo bad but almost peed my pants when I found out they were (IIRC) $250. I thought that was an insane price but because this was a milled putter .... Well, it delayed my purchase and I have not looked back. I know quality will generally have a higher price tag and now have come to accept this. Cameron putters changed the way I view putters and this view continues today. I owe my affinity about milled putters to Scotty Cameron, Bob Bettinardi and Acushnet.

[HoosierGolfer]

I agree Robot, nothing like the feel of a milled putter. I have owned and tried so many over the years, mainly cast stuff but until I bought my first milled putter, I had no idea what I was missing. I'm hoping I'm in a good position for Geo's next 8802 style release. Could be the one I've been looking for. I'm also open to a few other brands as I do see some really good looking ones here from time to time from the custom guys.

[bbeard10]

Being a youngster, I have to say that I have only had experience with cast putters for brief stints of time. I own a few and have tinkered with them and grew to find that Milled is the only way to go, for me anyway. I feel very lucky as to have been born in the current generation of golf, when new technologies and innovations are out everyday, however I'm a bit scared of the addiction I'm developing for putters...I blame this site. However, if it wasn't for this site I would have a different addiction, after all my family has its history of addicts...

 

My father-Cars

Grandfather-Stamps and old Records

Mother-Dolls

 

HEHE, sorry you guys had to putt with cast stuff for so long.

[MAK2525]

I think Cameron W/O Titleist would be very much like the Bettinardi shop today - building quality products in relatively small numbers on the custom side and production products for OEM's similar to the Mizuno / Ben Hogan / Bettinardi collaborations.

 

I believe that it was a smart move for Titleist to partner with both Cameron and Vokey. It's a good marriage for all parties, but both Scotty & Bob won the Power Ball Lottery by being the chosen ones! :D

[nickpoz]

I think Cameron W/O Titleist would be very much like the Bettinardi shop today - building quality products in relatively small numbers on the custom side and production products for OEM's similar to the Mizuno / Ben Hogan / Bettinardi collaborations.

 

I believe that it was a smart move for Titleist to partner with both Cameron and Vokey. It's a good marriage for all parties, but both Scotty & Bob won the Power Ball Lottery by being the chosen ones! :D

sorry for the minor threadjack but did you know Vokey wasn't originally hired by Titleist to make wedges? :)

[ghromas]

would people know what dasani water was without coca cola? aquafina without pepsi? comparable products, both good, but need the global marketing powerhouse behind them to really penetrate pros and regular consumers. scotty needed titleist, otherwise would be smaller production with recognized quality. not as small as a kevin burns shop, maybe more like bettinardi as said earlier in the thread.

[MAK2525]

I think Cameron W/O Titleist would be very much like the Bettinardi shop today - building quality products in relatively small numbers on the custom side and production products for OEM's similar to the Mizuno / Ben Hogan / Bettinardi collaborations.

 

I believe that it was a smart move for Titleist to partner with both Cameron and Vokey. It's a good marriage for all parties, but both Scotty & Bob won the Power Ball Lottery by being the chosen ones! :D

sorry for the minor threadjack but did you know Vokey wasn't originally hired by Titleist to make wedges? :)

 

Yes, I know about his history with his own custom shop, TM, Founder's Club, etc., & club developement for Titleist. Titleist still set him up to develop wedges after working on their original titanium driver. That being said, if he has even a small percentage of royalties for the use of the Vokey name, the marriage has been VERY good to him vs. what he could have done starting from Bob's Custom Golf! :D

[Z-Man]

Correct me if I am wrong..

 

Scotty had as many touring pros as Titleist when they hooked up.He was growing and they needed him . The Titleist putter line was old and needed new blood.What did they have back then?? The old bullseye and that dead center putter line.

[stage1350]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

 

There were putters back before Camerons that would fetch a pretty penny, again for their Tour status.

 

MacGregor IMG5 w/ XXXXXXs (Thanks, Jumbo)

Sportsman and Bristol Wizard 600 (Jack had a lot of Majors with that one)

Ping Scottsdale Ansers

any Ping Redwood City

Ping Trainers (still go for $20K when you see them)

Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer

'60s 8802

TP Mills handmades (still to this day)

and very rare pieces like the '63 MacGregor Frank Sinatra Invitational. Now THAT's an awesome putter.

 

Anyone remember with BeCu Anser 2 Pat Pend. putters were going for $500+ ?

[RobotDoctor]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

 

There were putters back before Camerons that would fetch a pretty penny, again for their Tour status.

 

MacGregor IMG5 w/ XXXXXXs (Thanks, Jumbo)

Sportsman and Bristol Wizard 600 (Jack had a lot of Majors with that one)

Ping Scottsdale Ansers

any Ping Redwood City

Ping Trainers (still go for $20K when you see them)

Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer

'60s 8802

TP Mills handmades (still to this day)

and very rare pieces like the '63 MacGregor Frank Sinatra Invitational. Now THAT's an awesome putter.

 

Anyone remember with BeCu Anser 2 Pat Pend. putters were going for $500+ ?

 

Don't forget the 8813. That was no slouch either.

[stage1350]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

 

There were putters back before Camerons that would fetch a pretty penny, again for their Tour status.

 

MacGregor IMG5 w/ XXXXXXs (Thanks, Jumbo)

Sportsman and Bristol Wizard 600 (Jack had a lot of Majors with that one)

Ping Scottsdale Ansers

any Ping Redwood City

Ping Trainers (still go for $20K when you see them)

Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer

'60s 8802

TP Mills handmades (still to this day)

and very rare pieces like the '63 MacGregor Frank Sinatra Invitational. Now THAT's an awesome putter.

 

Anyone remember with BeCu Anser 2 Pat Pend. putters were going for $500+ ?

 

Don't forget the 8813. That was no slouch either.

 

[Ty] Don't sell yourself short, Judge. You're a tremendous slouch! [/Webb]

 

Lists like that are never complete. Those are the ones that came off the top of my head.

[RobotDoctor]

awesome replies guys!!! And special thanks to RobotDoctor for such an in depth reply! I totally agree.

 

last question... were people paying $300 for putters prior to Scotty Cameron emerging? or has he alone controlled the going rate for a nice putter?

 

There were putters back before Camerons that would fetch a pretty penny, again for their Tour status.

 

MacGregor IMG5 w/ XXXXXXs (Thanks, Jumbo)

Sportsman and Bristol Wizard 600 (Jack had a lot of Majors with that one)

Ping Scottsdale Ansers

any Ping Redwood City

Ping Trainers (still go for $20K when you see them)

Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer

'60s 8802

TP Mills handmades (still to this day)

and very rare pieces like the '63 MacGregor Frank Sinatra Invitational. Now THAT's an awesome putter.

 

Anyone remember with BeCu Anser 2 Pat Pend. putters were going for $500+ ?

 

Don't forget the 8813. That was no slouch either.

 

[Ty] Don't sell yourself short, Judge. You're a tremendous slouch! [/Webb]

 

Lists like that are never complete. Those are the ones that came off the top of my head.

 

How 'bout a Fresca. Hmmmmm Hmmmmmmm?

[xxio]

For the guys the who think it is the milling that gives the better feel. Have you tried crbon steel or stainless steel putters that were cast without milling?

[great1putt]

Scotty had an excellent marketing background if I remember correctly that was invaluable to him and Titleist...not to mention that Scotty happened to be there when a young pup named Tiger came along thru the junior ranks and folks noticed his Scotty even back then.

[great1putt]

I guess Im saying it was a perfect storm. All the necessary things aligned at the proper times...and the rest they say is history.

[toejammer]

Scotty would be a nobody if it weren't for PING!!!