Rules Query: Standing on line of putt

goldwolf · February 23, 2009

Okay, here's an arguement someone has come up with, what's your opinion:

We all know you can't physically touch your intended line with hand or club, but an arguement has come up this weekend and this guy says you cannot stand on your intended line???

He also says if you are playing fourballs and your partner is closer to the hole, but has had more strokes (say if you want him to hole out for par so you can have a run at the birdie) if he stands on your line then it's a penalty.

Can someone give me the correct ruling for this? I was of the opinion your partner (or indeed yourself in singles) could stand on your line without penalty?? Am I wrong?

KevCarter · February 23, 2009

16-1a/12 Player Walks on Line of Putt

Q. A player walked on his line of putt. Did he incur a penalty for a breach of Rule 16-1a?

A. Yes, if he did so intentionally. No, if he did so accidentally and the act did not improve the line.

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16-1a/13 Line of Putt Damaged Accidentally by Opponent, Fellow-Competitor or Their Caddies

Q. An opponent, fellow-competitor or one of their caddies accidentally steps on and damages the player’s line of putt. What is the ruling?

A. There is no penalty. Rule 1-2 is not applicable.

In equity (Rule 1-4), the player may have the line of putt restored to its original condition.

The player is entitled to the lie and line of putt he had when his ball came to rest. The line of putt may be restored by anyone.

If it is not possible to restore the line of putt, the player would be justified in requesting the Committee to grant relief. If the damage is severe enough, the Committee may declare the area to be ground under repair, in which case the competitor may take relief under Rule 25-1b(iii).

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1-2/1 Line of Putt Altered Purposely by Opponent or Fellow-Competitor by Stepping on It

Q. An opponent or a fellow-competitor purposely steps on the player’s line of putt with the intention either of improving the line (e.g., by pressing down a raised tuft of grass) or of damaging it (e.g., by making spike marks). What is the ruling?

A. In either case, the opponent or the fellow-competitor was in breach of Rule 1-2. The penalty is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, unless the Committee decides to impose a penalty of disqualification — see the penalty statement under Rule 1-2.

In stroke play if the line of putt has been damaged, the player, in equity (Rule 1-4), may restore the line of putt to its previous condition. A player is entitled to the lie and line of putt he had when his ball came to rest. The line of putt may be restored by anyone. (Revised)

goldwolf · February 23, 2009

A comprehensive answer, thanks.

KevCarter · February 23, 2009

A comprehensive answer, thanks.

Anytime! :drinks:

Kevin

jjj912 · February 23, 2009

To clarify, while you are putting you may not touch your line of putt and your caddie and partners are not allowed to stand near your line of putt. As for your partner, when he's putting I don't see anything that prohibits your partner from standing on your line. Of course, to do so with the intent to alter the line of putt would be a penalty. Finally, remember that it is considered a breach of etiquette to stand on another player's line of putt.

16-1e. Standing Astride or on Line of Putt

The player must not make a stroke on the putting green from a

stance astride, or with either foot touching, the line of putt or an

extension of that line behind the ball.

Exception: There is no penalty if the stance is inadvertently

taken on or astride the line of putt (or an extension of that

line behind the ball) or is taken to avoid standing on another

player’s line of putt or prospective line of putt.

14-2. Assistance

In making a stroke, a player must not:

a. Accept physical assistance or protection from the elements;

or

b. Allow his caddie, his partner or his partner’s caddie to position

himself on or close to an extension of the line of play

or the line of putt behind the ball.

hbear · February 23, 2009

In team play your partner is also considered you, so him standing on your line while you are putting is no different than you or your caddy doing so.

I could be wrong, and don't know if it's in the rule book (haven't had a chance to look), but it's what I remember for some reason.

However in your example, if he's putting and happens to stand on your line for his putt....no violation.

goldwolf · February 24, 2009

In team play your partner is also considered you, so him standing on your line while you are putting is no different than you or your caddy doing so.

I could be wrong, and don't know if it's in the rule book (haven't had a chance to look), but it's what I remember for some reason.

However in your example, if he's putting and happens to stand on your line for his putt....no violation.

I'm a bit confused now....

Example:

Fourball matchplay - I have a 20 foot for birdie, my partner has 4 foot putt for par but would stand on my line if he attempted the putt. I tell him to try for the par and not to worry about standing on my line, which he does.

Is that a penalty? I have always thought it isn't, but I'm being challenged at the moment.

I accept that if there was an obvious big spike mark on my line and we used the situation to flatten the spike (and so alter the line) it would be a penalty.

golfismygame · February 24, 2009

Partners in fourball match play can play in any order they like - if a player takes his stance on a spike mark in that situation, it's not a penalty.

atlanta golfer · February 24, 2009

Wait a minute. On long lag putts, I will sometimes go half way to the hole to better understand the break near the hole as the ball slows. In doing so, I will sometimes stand directly on or very near my own line. I am not one of those people who obsesses about what this might do to the roll of the ball, especially on firm greens. According to this rule, I can stand to the side but not directly on my own line? Even if it is just to better view the break?

I would imagine the intent of the rule is to keep people from deliberately depressing surface irregularities especially on shorter putts.

Opinions? Am I the only person who does this?

golfismygame · February 24, 2009

If you walk on your line by accident and don't improve anything there's no penalty, but if you walk on it on purpose, there's a penalty under Rule 16-1.

16-1a/12 Player Walks on Line of Putt

Q. A player walked on his line of putt. Did he incur a penalty for a breach of Rule 16-1a?

A. Yes, if he did so intentionally. No, if he did so accidentally and the act did not improve the line.

goldwolf · February 24, 2009

Wait a minute. On long lag putts, I will sometimes go half way to the hole to better understand the break near the hole as the ball slows. In doing so, I will sometimes stand directly on or very near my own line. I am not one of those people who obsesses about what this might do to the roll of the ball, especially on firm greens. According to this rule, I can stand to the side but not directly on my own line? Even if it is just to better view the break?

I would imagine the intent of the rule is to keep people from deliberately depressing surface irregularities especially on shorter putts.

Opinions? Am I the only person who does this?

No, I do that too. As long as you don't:

Ground your club on the line

Touch the line with your hand

Intentionally stand on your line with the intention to alter the line (e.g. there's a nice spike mark half way down so you tread on it to flatten it.)

You're fine.

It's this partner on your line I'm struggling with!

jjj912 · February 24, 2009

Wait a minute. On long lag putts, I will sometimes go half way to the hole to better understand the break near the hole as the ball slows. In doing so, I will sometimes stand directly on or very near my own line. I am not one of those people who obsesses about what this might do to the roll of the ball, especially on firm greens. According to this rule, I can stand to the side but not directly on my own line? Even if it is just to better view the break?
...

The prohibition against standing on the line applies while you are actually putting (i.e. in the process of making a stroke).

...
I would imagine the intent of the rule is to keep people from deliberately depressing surface irregularities especially on shorter putts.
...

Deliberately improving your lie or line of play is expressly prohibited and carries a two stroke penalty. See Rule 13.

jjj912 · February 24, 2009

Rule 30-3b. Order of Play

Balls belonging to the same Side may be played in the order the Side considers best.

Decision 30-3b/1 Player Entitled to Putt Stands on Another Player’s Line of Putt

Q. A and B are partners in a four-ball match. A’s ball is closer to the hole than any other ball and it is B’s turn to play. Side A-B decide that A will putt before B — Rule 30-3b. However, in doing so A would be standing on B’s line of putt or the line of putt of an opponent. What is the ruling?

A. A would be entitled to putt first even if he would be standing on B’s line. Rule 30-3b overrides Rule 16-1a, which prohibits touching the line of putt.

A would also be entitled to putt first if he would be standing on an opponent’s line of putt. However, it would be a sporting gesture for Side A-B to relinquish A’s right to putt first in these circumstances. (Revised — Formerly 30-3c/1)

The Duck · February 24, 2009

What about the extend line of the putt?

Is that an infraction of the same rule?

hbear · February 24, 2009

In team play your partner is also considered you, so him standing on your line while you are putting is no different than you or your caddy doing so.

I could be wrong, and don't know if it's in the rule book (haven't had a chance to look), but it's what I remember for some reason.

However in your example, if he's putting and happens to stand on your line for his putt....no violation.

I'm a bit confused now....

Example:

Fourball matchplay - I have a 20 foot for birdie, my partner has 4 foot putt for par but would stand on my line if he attempted the putt. I tell him to try for the par and not to worry about standing on my line, which he does.

Is that a penalty? I have always thought it isn't, but I'm being challenged at the moment.

I accept that if there was an obvious big spike mark on my line and we used the situation to flatten the spike (and so alter the line) it would be a penalty.