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Why Do People Do This?


theinsider

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Play Equipment That Fits!!
Ok, slight rant but I need to vent.

Dropped over to my golf club to get nine holes in after work tonight. Get paired up with a new member all decked out with a full bag of component built clubs. Just chatting to the guy before we tee off, it is obvious he is an alright player as he is talking about various tournaments I am familiar with. I also find out he builds his own clubs.

All is well through the first couple holes. He is steady but unspectacular. His drives though - going about 240-250 but falling out of air fast. I quietly ask for a look at his driver and see he is playing a Grafalloy Prototype COMP NT shaft - in X Flex!!!

He proceeds to hit yet another knuckle ball.

For one, this guy does not have the speed for this shaft, and two his tempo is hardly quick enough to load it either.

I ask him about it and he says "S Flex is too soft for my speed". I proceed to play the rest of the round driving the ball higher and farther than him (by 50-60 yards on some holes) with my "S" Flex shafted club that perfectly fits my 113 SS and slow tempo.

It is apparent to me that this fellow is not getting enough spin or trajectory on his shots to get the maximum carry and distance - it is not like he is a bad player. But he plays an X because he thinks that is what he has to do as a "player."

Why do people do this?

I didn't say anything to him about it, kind of left it for him to figure out but it is crazy that people (especially someone who builds his own clubs) do this to themselves.

Anyone else have a similar experience of people playing clubs ill-fitted to them just because they think they should be playing it?

This guy is probably about a 7 but could easily be a 3 or 4 with a better ball flight provided by the right shafts.

A shame actually that he lets his ego get in the way of making him actually become a BETTER player.

:beee:

Rant over...

:)
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Hey, it took me 3 years until I thought I could go to a STIFF flex. And even then not in every club. Just the driver! Ego is a big enemy of golf.

DRIVER:  Callaway Rogue ST 10.5

FAIRWAYS:  Callaway Rogue ST 3, 9, 11 Fairway Woods

HYBRIDS:  Callaway Big Bertha 3 Hybrid, Rogue ST 4 Hybrid

IRONS:  Callaway Rogue ST 4-AW

WEDGES:  Callaway Jaws Raw 50 S Grind, 54 S Grind, 58 Z Grind 

PUTTER:  Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas

BACKUPS:  Odyssey Toulon Garage Le Mans Tri-Hot 5K Double Wide, MannKrafted Custom, Slighter Custom

BALL:  Testing

A man has to have options!

 

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i played with a player this week who missed all of his drives right - unless they were low knuckle balls to the left. he is playing a r5 neutral. he starts complaining about his driver, which i ask if he tried the draw version and told me he doesn't "need a game improvement driver like the draw version". course he also claimed to shot 34-34, which i found absolutely impossible consider he lost 5 balls on the front nine, and i don't recall a single birdie. back nine he had a hole with 3 penalty strokes.

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yup - i learned about swing speed & flex a few years ago - after i bought my 1st driver off-the-rack.. not knowing much about golf & all of its details.. just getting out for fun... then a friend explained to me ... ahhhh.... so i got a regular-flex shafted sticks... much improvement!!! 2 months ago upgraded to 905T with regular flex shaft of course and demoed a bunch at the local store before buying it.. tried every combo they got... and for the price i couldn't pass it up. i gave the old STIFF driver away.

 

... and on some hole i can go places where a few years ago i never could have reached. and with the dry-hot sun of texas... boy the ball can roll forever!! which is a good thing (most time)

 

so - no ego here. just a simple plain golf addict!!! : ) with a passion for spending 4 hours with friends each weekend. not too bad.

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Heh I can't really knock the guy as my clubs don't fit me at all. I launch my driver, at best, at about 7* with a 110 mph SS and fast tempo. My irons are old Cleveland VAS+ (yeah, the purple headed ones.) that were custom fit for someone else but then traded in and sold to me for 250 bucks about 7 or 8 years ago. I still shoot in the low 80's or high 70's when I'm playing well, but I know the clubs arent really helping my game. A 280 yard drive that never gets more than 15 feet off the ground is great in the wind, but not when I have to clear the face of a bunker 230 yards out. :)

 

Hopefully this summer I'll have saved enough to afford a new shaft for my driver and a custom fit mixed mizuno set. :beee:

 

Not to hijack your post, but can anyone tell me what type of swing would be good for an X-stiff flex shaft for a driver?

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When I played in high school I found this a lot of the time. Players thinking that they can play a club that is made for a 'player's' game. I found it more with irons. Some kids would get a beautiful set of Titleist blades and then would have trouble getting the ball of the ground and would complain about there swings. I could just think that if they had put that money into a nice set of game improvment irons what they could do. The ones that do understand play so much better. But I hope that is just the testosterone of high school.

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You think it's bad running into the occasional golfer with poorly fitted clubs, much worse is once upon a time another website made a big deal about most golfers should try a stiffer flex shaft because they may be surprised to find great results. Those playing S flex should strongly consider X flex and maybe even XX or tip the X.

 

Of course this coincided with a big pullout sale of X flex shafts, but that's another story.

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You think it's bad running into the occasional golfer with poorly fitted clubs, much worse is once upon a time another website made a big deal about most golfers should try a stiffer flex shaft because they may be surprised to find great results. Those playing S flex should strongly consider X flex and maybe even XX or tip the X.

 

Of course this coincided with a big pullout sale of X flex shafts, but that's another story.

Gee,I wonder what website that is(with tongue firmly in cheek)They are very self serving over there and you must be in the "in crowd" to get much of a reply from B*G guys.

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If I was so bothered by a new members equipment and felt the need to share an opinion, I would have complemented him on his game after the round but mentioned that his driver ball flight did not look optimal to me and that with a better ball flight, he could probably gain a few yards. I would then share an experience that would have included my ball flight was the same but got better when I was fitted on a launch monitor and switched from an x to a stiff shaft. If somebody told me that after a round and he was outdriving me by 40 yards each hole and I was hitting it 240, you can bet that I would get the idea.

 

Personally, I wouldn't rant publicly about another member of my club. You never know who is reading and I know that if I was the object of a rant by a fellow club member, he would be getting an earful at a minimum the next time we crossed paths.

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Great rant! When are people going to realize the potential they could have if they get fitted properly. I am sick of people with their 8.5 degree stiff drivers that go low right and about 10 feet in the air and go only 200 yards. Then they are mad because they slice it all the time!! Even some of the PGA Tour players have an s flex shaft in the bag. Look in Jay Haas bag, or Mike Weir's long irons. Also didn't Payne Stewart play regulars for the longest time??

Ping G410 Plus Driver 10.5 - Tour 65 S
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Ping G410 22 Hybrid (set at 20.5) - Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue HY 80 S

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I think the problem with too many golfers is ego. Distance is always mentioned in advertising, golf channel, instruction magazines, etc. This does not help. It makes the average golfer feel that they need to be longer.

 

I could give a rat's a** how far someone hits any specific club and if they are playing with a shaft stiffer than a guy who took 5 Viagra.

 

The question is, can they hit the target? Can they repeat it? Old saying, to drive is for show, to putt is for dough.

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If I was so bothered by a new members equipment and felt the need to share an opinion, I would have complemented him on his game after the round but mentioned that his driver ball flight did not look optimal to me and that with a better ball flight, he could probably gain a few yards. I would then share an experience that would have included my ball flight was the same but got better when I was fitted on a launch monitor and switched from an x to a stiff shaft. If somebody told me that after a round and he was outdriving me by 40 yards each hole and I was hitting it 240, you can bet that I would get the idea.

 

Personally, I wouldn't rant publicly about another member of my club. You never know who is reading and I know that if I was the object of a rant by a fellow club member, he would be getting an earful at a minimum the next time we crossed paths.

 

happygolfer, Generally this would be very good advice but unfortunately in this situation it would not have flown. This gentleman mentioned that he had "played around on a launch montior" but from the info he gave me I am sure he said it for show and it was not reality. The guy who owns that launch monitor is a quality fitter who would not have let this guy out of the shop with an X flex.

 

I am always happy to provide advice but in this case it would have been unsolicited and inappropriate. If I do see him later (now that I know him a little after 9 holes and since he was a decent guy who I would not mind playing with again) I will be sure to say something like "I was thinking about our last round together and your ball flight, I really think you might have a lot of potential distance and accuracy waiting for you in another shaft setup."

 

My whole purpose was to point out something of value to many of our members "get clubs that fit you, not what you think you should buy to look like a player, while hurting your game and stunting real potential." The results are what count - not the labels on the shaft.

 

Good points though and a good example of what you should do in most situations to help out a fellow golfer.

 

:)

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I agree with just about everything on this thread....but we overlook one thing....

 

Its obvious that these guys are just "vanity" handicappers. Which to me is fine.....just makes my wallet fatter!!!! :)

 

I play with several people like this at my club. It always starts out OK, then they mention that they never shoot this poorly, etc, etc.

 

Then I see them two weeks later with new clubs, because thats the problem!!!

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I'd think the best way to get fitted is for the fitter to cover up the loft and flex on the clubs being tested and then hit until you find the optimal one. That loft and flex is what you should use if you want to get the most out of the club. Would even be better if you could somehow disguise the entire club. We'd probably be suprised as just what would work best for us.

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I went not to long ago to get new clubs to gain something heheh. Well the guy put me on a machine and had me take about 10 swings with my 5 iron. Then he said out to the range, Never told me the results and just started handing me clubs to try. He asked my not to look at the flex's just to hit and i told him no problem. I told him what i thought felt the best and he the recommended i get new shafts in my irons not new irons all together. He then asked me what i was looking for and i told him tighter dispersion and more boring trajectory. He told me here is your shaft, it was a Project X. He asked me if i like them and i told him if the numbers say it will work then i am liking them. I have done that with all the shafts in my bag except my wedges. I am happy with them too(they are not always happy with me). I like to play my game and no one Else's, people are to catch up in being someone there not.

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Interesting post. I agree, egos do get in the way sometimes. But, if this guy builds his own clubs, and knows what he's doing, then perhaps there was a reason for the X flex. Perhaps he likes a heavy swingweight and the added weight of the head makes his shafts play weaker. Maybe he didn't tip it and it plays like a regular flex. Perhaps his "not quite optimized" ballflight is OK with him? What if it keeps him in play, but it takes 20 yards off his drives?

 

Who knows why this guy was playing the shaft he was. It doesn't sound like it was right by any means. But maybe it helps him play better? I know my Comp NT 85 in stiff flex gets me 280 on a good drive though. :beee: I doubt X was needed. I've talked with a few "hobbyist" clubmakers before and it seems that some of them are their own worst enemy. Enough info to be dangerous, but that's about it. :)

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your phrase "ego get in the way of making him actually become a BETTER player." is perfect. I bought a MP001 driver stiff flex a little over two years ago, did well with it until the urge to buy bigger and better. Got fitted for a Callaway X460 with reg shaft, granted everyone wants to drive for dough sometime in their life but I'm getting older and now need to keep the distance to the max to keep up with the younger co-workers. The reg flex works better and with time I'll be out driving the "kids" with my tempo.

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Not to hijack your post, but can anyone tell me what type of swing would be good for an X-stiff flex shaft for a driver?

 

(and far more detailed answers can be had from much more knowledgable than I in the clubmakers forum)

Sorry, it's not that simple. Swing speed, smooth or aggressive swing, how you load a shaft...

all make a difference. As does...shafts differ...one company's x-stiff is not the same as anothers,

and even different shafts from the same manufacturer will have varying playing characteristics.

(tip stiffness, butt stiffness, bendpoint. etc)

 

One thing I was taught a long time ago...for the driver (the only *distance* club)...

play the *softest* shaft you can control...as it will generate more clubhead speed.

And again, even this thought is just not that simple.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

 

Rich

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Everyone has his own approach about golf ...

 

I changed my old clubs few weeks ago. I have to choose between LT2 and OS2 ... I hit them on range with a pro. Personally, I found OS2 really easy to play maybe too easy. LT2 seems to me more beautifull (thinner) but less forgiving, harder. Even if I definitely prefer them (LT2), I'd liked to hear the pro opinion. He told me that I won't have problem to play LT2 but will have to work a bit to be more confident ... therefore, when I will be tired, OS2 will be easier for me.

 

I thought : Is it better to choose the simpliest solution OS2 or the most difficult one LT2 and then to improve my swing, trying that way to have a good swing ?

 

I prefer to have a proper swing ... I choose then LT2s.

 

(I hope this is clear ... my english is not really fluent ... sorry)

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I have to agree with the Ego comment.. I am a 4 handicap and actually hit a R flex.. It took me a while to get away from my S flex and go with the R but I am hitting the best drives of my life.. Cheers!

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Ego is a killer. I got over this 2 years ago.

 

When I first started playing I was the idiot who bought an 8* Callaway driver, thinking that is what it took to be a "playa". I sucked for a long time.

 

Finally started "doing it right" and got an 11 degree driver w/ R flex. I improved greatly and recently was fitted for a 9* driver with an R flex. I am driving the ball better than ever.

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I played X flex for the longest time, frankly speaking, I did it because I felt there were more inconsistancies when I played an S flex. I think the quality of the golf shafts have gotten much better. A S flex from 1999, isn't the same as an S flex 2006 with nano technology. These days you can get incredible consistancy that wasn't always there especially when it came to graphite shafts. I think there is still that stigma that "S" flex graphite shafts, if you have a high swingspeed, will twist or otherwise lead to inconsistancies. Of course people didn't always know why, they probably overheard their local club pro having a conversation with one of their buddies 10 years ago...

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While I agree with all the comments about vanity and ego getting in the way of properly fit clubs, there is also something to be said for playing what you "believe" will work for you.

 

Couple of years ago I played a Cleveland Launcher 400 - 8 degree with X flex NV prototype shaft. Shaft was way too stiff for my 107 mph swing. Loft was way too low, as I'm a low ball hitter anyway. But I loved that driver as I could swing all out and it always went straight and long, although low. Never hooked, never sliced...just straight.

 

The next year, in my quest for more distance, I got fitted on a launch monitor. Yep, Cleveland was bad fit. Put me in a 580XD 10.5 degree, stiff Ys-6. Went a bit higher and a bit longer...but all over the place. Got fit again, put me in a R7 ht - 10.5 S flex stock shaft. Went high and straight...and short as can be.

 

Last month I blew off another fitting and picked a driver I liked the look of. Probably doesn't "fit", but I like it and trust it. Hit it great!

 

So maybe your playing partner just plain trusts the club and that's good enough for him...

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