GPS vs. Laser

[phil75070]

The golf GPS devices I have used do have menu options that allow you to check the status to include how many satellite signals have been found and if WAAS is enabled. You are correct that on a heavily tree lined course or in the city surrounded by tall buildings receiving the signal from a WAAS satellite or even other GPS satellites that are lower to the horizon could be problematic.

[The Hawkeye]

As I said further up, I have [b]both[/b] a laser and a uPro. I have tested, on many occasions, the accuracy of the uPro. It is almost never off more than a yard (max). This 7-10 yard difference claim made by some above is maybe true for other lesser GPS devices (or a smart phone), but I can attest that the uPro is very accurate. Also, NEITHER a laser or GPS accounts for slope. They would be noncompliant if they did (illegal) and so every yardage is technically an estimate...that's right...every yardage is not exact...ever because a laser and GPS do not account for slope.

The notion that any player is unhappy with a GPS device that is off a yard or two is just hubris and I don't buy it. If you look at PGA players and yardage readings, they are using a yardage book and then their caddy is walking off distances from identified spots in the book...WALKING. If the caddy's stride is cut short or over stepped by 6" then imagine how "off" that will be over 10 - 15 yards. I have seen PGA caddies walk off some distances (when their player is way off the fairway) of 30 yards or more. So add slope and inconsistent stride length and they are playing with a general sense of yardage, and that seems to be just fine for the pros.

Bottom line, most top of the line GPS devices are plenty accurate for even the best of the best players. I use a laser infrequently now and only for the purpose of finding the flag on a large or odd shaped green on an approach shot and only on courses that are new to me. Otherwise, it never sees the light of day. I bought it for hunting and golf before I got a GPS. (Nice idea about the driving range though, never thought about that).

I play of lot of new courses and some do not give flag positions so a laser can be useful in that situation, but it is not make or break. If you can only buy one, then I think a GPS is the way to go. It is faster than a laser, great for new courses, and plenty accurate. And GPS devices serve other purposes...they now keep score and track club distances, so it is a very valuable tool. I know the yardage of my clubs better than at any time in my career thanks to the "mark" feature on my uPro.

[DaveLeeNC]

Has anyone out there ever done something resembling a real test of their GPS unit accuracy? I had a unit several years ago. I marked 4 points around our neighborhood and measured the distance from a fixed point in my front yard to those 4 points (all in the 100-200 yard range) something like 100 times over a 10 day period. I had no idea what the actual distances were, but I could certainly determine the repeatability (ability to get the same answer to the same question every time - accuracy can't be better than that).

I came to the conclusion that this unit was repeatable to about +-5 yards - accuracy could be worse, but could not be better. I became a laser guy because good accuracy to the pin from inside 100 yards was my #1 requirement and GPS is not a good technology for that problem. To me +- 5 yards is OK for general use, but just barely.

And there is no doubt that every once in a while you get this 'off the wall' answer. When I used GPS I found myself always double-checking to be sure that I wasn't getting an 'off the wall' answer.

Has anyone else actually tried to evaluate the accuracy of their unit? I don't mean 'try it once' and see what you get, but take a bunch of measurements over an extended period of time with varying weather and satellite conditions. For me it was the first thing that I did when I got mine, but maybe that is the engineer in me.

dave

[wrmiller]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' date='11 February 2010 - 06:47 PM' timestamp='1265939274' post='2245154']
Has anyone out there ever done something resembling a real test of their GPS unit accuracy? I had a unit several years ago. I marked 4 points around our neighborhood and measured the distance from a fixed point in my front yard to those 4 points (all in the 100-200 yard range) something like 100 times over a 10 day period. I had no idea what the actual distances were, but I could certainly determine the repeatability (ability to get the same answer to the same question every time - accuracy can't be better than that).

I came to the conclusion that this unit was repeatable to about +-5 yards - accuracy could be worse, but could not be better. I became a laser guy because good accuracy to the pin from inside 100 yards was my #1 requirement and GPS is not a good technology for that problem. To me +- 5 yards is OK for general use, but just barely.

And there is no doubt that every once in a while you get this 'off the wall' answer. When I used GPS I found myself always double-checking to be sure that I wasn't getting an 'off the wall' answer.

Has anyone else actually tried to evaluate the accuracy of their unit? I don't mean 'try it once' and see what you get, but take a bunch of measurements over an extended period of time with varying weather and satellite conditions. For me it was the first thing that I did when I got mine, but maybe that is the engineer in me.

dave
[/quote]

I've not performed a formal test in a controlled environment, but I have on several occasions, compared my gps to a laser that is being used by someone playing with me. Because we were all curious, simple as that.

The person with the laser would shoot a pin, trap or other mark which my gps also had a range to. The delta has never been more than 3 yards off, and more often that not, less than two. I can live with that variance, because as I said before, I'm not accurate enough to throw darts within 2 yds of my target anyway.

One time, a playing partner was trying to determine the distance to the water/creek ahead to judge his layup. All he could see to laser was the opposite bank, and I wasn't knowledgeable enough to guess the span of the creek. I checked my skycaddie, and sure enough, it had distance to creek, and distance to carry. I told him to subtract 5 from the distance, which put him right about at the end of the cut grass. He hit a nice shot that was about 10-12 feet or so from the end of the fairway in front of the creek. He thanked me and made some comment about checking into one.

[phil75070]

I have checked informally any number of times. After turning it on and giving it time to totally sync with the maximum number of satellites, I will stand on the first step leading up to the first tee and check the yardage and it is consistently within 1-2 yards to the center of the first green every time I do from one day to the next. If I happen to find myself near a sprinkler head I will frequently compare the GPS reading to what is stamped on the sprinkler head, and again, usually I find the distance right on to a 1 yard difference, occasionally 2-3 yards. That larger difference is due to the fact that the exact point used for the front of the green may differ between what was used for the sprinkler head and what the default is for the GPS. At my course, since sprinkler heads show the distance to the front of the green, the pin sheets actually have a dot indicating the precise point that the sprinkler head was measured to. Using the SkyGolf Intelligreen or Golf Guru SmartGreen feature to match up that point on the GPS I usually find the comparison right on to a yard different.

Part of the reason I may get this level of accuracy is that my course is basically a "links style" course with only a few trees here and there, and although running through a housing community, the houses are all well back from the course. So there is no interference with the signals.

[JofZ]

I have (2) Skycaddies and they provide me with different yardages on every single shot
Why 2? I can afford to do a real test, so I bought them at a discount. I was so sick of the dreaded shake of the hand, but nothing will get as accurate as a range finder with laser, nothing!
A human walking off a yardage will be with in 1-5 yards and that is far more accurate then any GPS I have used.
My 2 Skycaddies sit in my bag and I often bust them out to show others how poor they are as a true instrument.
They do look great, but I only really need a map for a new course and then I only need it once. I prefer a yardage book!

So do yourself a favor, save some money and time and score lower. Use your feet or a laser and move on from the stupid thing that always runs out of battery juice when you need it most.

Oh and if anyone wants a couple SG's, let me know hahahahaha

[alfie]

Get BOTH!!!

Seriously, if u can only get 1 item only and want total, true accuracy, then go with a laser range finder... [b]BUT[/b], speaking as someone who has both, I prefer the convenience and ease of a gps... just click and get the yardage numbers... no need to pick a target. Besides, my game & swing are not good enough to actually be able to pinpoint exactly the swing yardage to get to the hole. I just need a close enough number for now... If I do ever get better, then might consider carrying the laser range finder as well.

[The Hawkeye]

This thread reveals two things...people want yardages they can trust and people are ready to spend money on technology to give them those yardages. After that it splits hard in two directions. One, the scientist, who wants utter precision and believes it can be had, and the other the artist, who is a pragmatists about precision and believes there is a limit to what is possible in the uncontrolled world of golf.

Count me in the latter and I owned a laser first and played three years with it before adding a GPS. As long as slope cannot be factored in other than through what you "see" with your own eyes and guessing from there, neither technology will ever deliver utter precision. Which then should make one reevaluate the purpose and potential of each.

If you want yardages, and only yardages then a laser is your friend. If you want context, overview, definition then lasers are wholly lacking.

[JofZ]

GPS technology can't even find my street let alone give me a true yardage on my golf course. To those expecting to save strokes, I will wager you are giving them away using GPS.
Hire a caddy, he'll save you strokes. Buy a laser, it will get you with +/- 2%, use a GPS and you might as well use any club in your bag, close your eyes, spin 3 times and fire.

[DevilGolfer]

Is a laser usable to measure to a layup spot or do you basically need something vertical to reflect it back? Can I use sand or grass as the measuring spot?

[swgolfer]

Tour caddies dont walk most yardages for the yardage books, most key distances are done with a "LASER".. some small distances between say a bunker short of the green and the front edge are walked, ask any maker of yardage books how they are done, "LASER". Show me one Tour Player who uses a GPS, none I know of.

[mcfet]

You can get Golftraxx on your phone and its free, so get a laser and you will have both. both have advantages. laser gives you exact pin yardage as long as you can shoot it. The GPS is great for knowing the green front to back numbers. Its also great if you are in a hollow and cant see the pin. I just use the free gps on my phone. My friend has a skycaddie. We compared the yardages and my iPhone with Golftraxx was exactly the same.

[AP2 712]

I just listed my SG 2.5 on the BST forum if you are interested. It includes their Eagle service until 7/21/2010.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' date='12 February 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1266025075' post='2247653']
Is a laser usable to measure to a layup spot or do you basically need something vertical to reflect it back? Can I use sand or grass as the measuring spot?
[/quote]

One of the advantages (and disadvantages) to laser is that you can get a yardage to about anything that you can see. Of course you have to be able to see it (not always the case).

dave

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' date='12 February 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1266028471' post='2247796']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' date='12 February 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1266025075' post='2247653']
Is a laser usable to measure to a layup spot or do you basically need something vertical to reflect it back? Can I use sand or grass as the measuring spot?
[/quote]

One of the advantages (and disadvantages) to laser is that you can get a yardage to about anything that you can see. Of course you have to be able to see it (not always the case).

dave
[/quote]

So, lets say I see my layup spot. There's nothing but grass there. Can I laser the grass and get the yardage?

[swgolfer]

A laser will reflect back off any object: grass, Tree etc,

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' date='13 February 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1266072628' post='2248598']
[quote name='DaveLeeNC' date='12 February 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1266028471' post='2247796']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' date='12 February 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1266025075' post='2247653']
Is a laser usable to measure to a layup spot or do you basically need something vertical to reflect it back? Can I use sand or grass as the measuring spot?
[/quote]

One of the advantages (and disadvantages) to laser is that you can get a yardage to about anything that you can see. Of course you have to be able to see it (not always the case).

dave
[/quote]

So, lets say I see my layup spot. There's nothing but grass there. Can I laser the grass and get the yardage?
[/quote]

Yes - but if you are just aiming to a "point in a flat/level fairway" 210 yards away, you will need to take some care and you will probably want to practice some (like aiming at a tree and then an area just to the right of the tree) just to get comfortable with what you are doing.

dave

[MDHacker]

csaltz22:
There are pros and cons for having both. For the record, I have been using a pinseeker 1500 tourney edition for the last several years. While it gave me accurate distances to visible targets, I found that it lacked the capacity to give me distances for tee and iron shots (what I think the distance of my iron or tee shot was most of the time off). At one point I played to an 8 (shot up to an 11 due to a new little one in the family) but even at the handicap, I never could take advantage of the exact distance to the pin. What finally pushed me over to a GPS was during blind shots, I often didn't know the proper distances to clear obstacles and often had to lay up even though I most likely could of cleared a trap, etc...So I bit the bullet and purchased an SG-5. If I were to go in fresh, I would start out with a GPS for several years and once you find that your game can benefit from the exact approach distances to the pins that a laser can afford, switch to a laser. It all boils down to how effectively you can utilize the information that these devices give you.
As for which GPS and laser, I chose the pinseeker because it was bigger than the Nikon G500 I had previously. The larger laser allowed me to steady my hands to laser a pin, trap, etc. The G500 was too small which forced me to sometimes lean against a tree or cart to give me a more steady base. The leopold is a smaller laser. Just remember that if you participate in any tourneys, the slope and temp function can be deemed illegal during play.
I chose the Skycaddie because it was a tried and true technology and most people do like it. I surveyed a few of my golf buddies and asked them why they chose the skycaddie. I actually looked at the Sonocaddie as I didn't want to deal with yearly costs for membership for new courses, but in the end, got a little freaked out because I saw a bunch of refurbished V300's show up on ebay which started my mind thinking why were there so many of those returned.

Just my .02 worth...

Best of luck,
MDGolfHacker

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' date='13 February 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1266075910' post='2248720']

Yes - but if you are just aiming to a "point in a flat/level fairway" 210 yards away, you will need to take some care and you will probably want to practice some (like aiming at a tree and then an area just to the right of the tree) just to get comfortable with what you are doing.

dave
[/quote]

Thanks Dave, but I'm not following what the "practice" would entail. Help an idiot with this.

[DaveLeeNC]

Yes - but if you are just aiming to a "point in a flat/level fairway" 210 yards away, you will need to take some care and you will probably want to practice some (like aiming at a tree and then an area just to the right of the tree) just to get comfortable with what you are doing.

 

dave

 

Thanks Dave, but I'm not following what the "practice" would entail. Help an idiot with this.

 

DG, just aim at a tree trunk out there 200 yards (or whatever) away. Then aim at a place on the ground a couple feet off to the side of that same tree trunk and see if you get the same answer. I suspect that you will, but I once borrowed a rangefinder where the crosshairs were badly mis-aligned (it was actually 'aimed' a foot or more lower than the center of the cross-hairs).

 

You just want to be sure that what you get is what it is.

 

dave

[DevilGolfer]

OK, got ya. Just look for a reference point basically and see if the numbers match.

[Viking Golfer]

Best solution - BOTH

I have Sonocaddie V300 GPS for everything up to 140-150 yards.
I have the Callaway LR800 laser for range practice and everything from within 140 yards.

[Buddyjay]

Best solution - BOTH

 

I have Sonocaddie V300 GPS for everything up to 140-150 yards.

I have the Callaway LR800 laser for range practice and everything from within 140 yards.

 

 

I think this is the one thread where everyone provided excellent opinions. I have a Sonocaddie V300 and like it a lot. However, on a recent trip to Myrtle Beach, I did not take it since those 6 courses I was playing were not on the GPS and I did not want to pay the $5 each to download (may not play them again). I found myself quessing a lot on certain shots. One shot was a Par 5 dogleg left and we didn't know the yardage to the leg. One guy had a Laser and shot a tree giving us the disatance. So, for me, a Laser is beneficial for when your GPS doesn't have the course. Also, my GPS doesn't show yardage to a dogleg but you can mark it yourself. This however, doesn't help for new courses you are playing.

 

I also like the idea of the laser for range use. Makes sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like my Sonocaddie. Gives me instant readings a lot faster than a Laser and will show the yardage on blind shots. But I am a bit of a stickler and "feel" that a laser may be more accurate. When I have played with a guy who has a laser and I have my GPS, we ALWAYS get different readings. Sometimes up to ten yards. I know there can be some variables but I feel that a laser's mark to the pin is more accurate than a GPS. Just my opinion though.

But as others have said, they like a laser for 100 yards an in and that's where your game is scored.

 

For those that don't have either, a couple of people had great ideas. If you have a smartphone, get the GPS apps for that. Will be great for blindshots and general useage. Then buy a Laser. Best of both worlds. I read on another thread where a guy uses both. His GPS gives him front, middle and back of green yardage. But suppose you don't know where the pin is. It's a semi blind shot to the green. You can see the pin but not in it's relationship to the front/back of green. GPS will show, i.e., 120 to the back and the Laser will show 115 to the pin. Then you know you have 5 yards from pin to back of green. You also will have the knowledge of how much room in front of green to pin. Am I that good of a golfer to be that precise. No. But this knowledge may help lower my HC a bit and that's what most of us want.

 

But I like what Viking Golfer said the best... "Get both..."

 

I do like my toys.

[csaltz22]

All of these comments sure have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate all the participation. Only problem is I am now more torn between the two than before, was leaning toward a GPS but my wife just got a new smart phone that can do GPS (I have a company phone that can not have a golf gps put on it). If my phone did GPS I would definetly get a laser and have both, but since I would probably only get her phone on the weekends, if she lets me, I am still torn between both. Kinda leaning toward a laser now and supplementing with my wifes phone GPS when I can, but worried about the ease of use for a laser on the course. Plus, my irons arn't that accurate that I need to know 158 to the pin, a estimate of 155 would work for me right now, but as I, hopefully, improve a more accurate device would be nice.

[TML]

if this helps. I have the Leupold and the golfshot on the iPhone. I thought I could make more use out of Golfshot, but found myself relying on the Leupold for distance. Since Golfshot is only $30, I like the fact I can always use it in case I don't have my laser (or forget to bring it on vacation), but I feel like the laser is my security blanket.

[phil75070]

Lasers are definitely the more accurate devices right now with accuracy +/- 1 yard and maybe even less as there may be a couple that measure to the 1/2 yard. I have an older Bushnell that has a scan function and in scan mode, sighting on the flagstick, I can get a 1-3 yard fluctuation in readings. The only possible drawback for a laser is the need for line of sight.

Next in line for accuracy are the dedicated golf GPS devices from the likes of SkyCaddie, Garmin, Sonocaddie, Golf Guru, etc. Generally accepted accuracy levels are in the range of 2-3 yards. They typically are able to pick up 10 or more GPS satellite signals and most are WAAS enabled, allowing for the accuracy level they get. A few drawbacks are annual fees for some, the potential for error that maps add, no matter how they are done (walked or using imagery) and the inability to even approximate the yardage to the pin except for those that have an "Intelligreen" (SkyGolf) or SmartGreen (Gof Guru) feature.

Last in line for accuracy are the iPhone apps as the GPS chipset and software is utilizing A-GPS which is just not as accurate - fewer channels, no WAAS - and was designed for location based services not requiring the level of accuracy normally desired for a golf app. The big advantage is the cost of the app if you discount the cost of the phone.

Many that disparage GPS devices in general in regard to accuracy have developed their opinions from using navigational GPS devcies which don't have to have the level of accuracy that a golf GPS is expected to have.

Keep in mind there are handheld GPS devices that are out there that have accuracy levels measured in inches (see Trimble's product line-up). They use the same satellite signals that golf dedicated devices and iPhones use so GPS is not inherently inaccurate as many espouse, and can approach the accuracy of a laser given the willingness to invest in the development of both the silicon and software. With the computing power available today, use of sub micron technology in the silicon which aids in reducing size and power requirements, don't be surprised if an affordable golf GPS doesn't start approaching that level of accuracy in the near future. Just my $.02.

[KevCarter]

That was extremely helpful Phil. Thank you for taking the time!

Cheers,
Kevin

[TML]

want to add, that the golfshot app was within 1-2 yds of the laser measurement.....well within my threshold of flaws

[The Hawkeye]

[color="#1C2837"][quote]Lasers are definitely the more accurate devices right now with accuracy +/- 1 yard and maybe even less as there may be a couple that measure to the 1/2 yard. I have an older Bushnell that has a scan function and in scan mode, sighting on the flagstick, I can get a 1-3 yard fluctuation in readings. The only possible drawback for a laser is the need for line of sight.

Next in line for accuracy are the dedicated golf GPS devices from the likes of SkyCaddie, Garmin, Sonocaddie, Golf Guru, etc. Generally accepted accuracy levels are in the range of 2-3 yards. They typically are able to pick up 10 or more GPS satellite signals and most are WAAS enabled, allowing for the accuracy level they get. A few drawbacks are annual fees for some, the potential for error that maps add, no matter how they are done (walked or using imagery) and the inability to even approximate the yardage to the pin except for those that have an "Intelligreen" (SkyGolf) or SmartGreen (Gof Guru) feature.

Last in line for accuracy are the iPhone apps as the GPS chipset and software is utilizing A-GPS which is just not as accurate - fewer channels, no WAAS - and was designed for location based services not requiring the level of accuracy normally desired for a golf app. The big advantage is the cost of the app if you discount the cost of the phone.

Many that disparage GPS devices in general in regard to accuracy have developed their opinions from using navigational GPS devcies which don't have to have the level of accuracy that a golf GPS is expected to have.

Keep in mind there are handheld GPS devices that are out there that have accuracy levels measured in inches (see Trimble's product line-up). They use the same satellite signals that golf dedicated devices and iPhones use so GPS is not inherently inaccurate as many espouse, and can approach the accuracy of a laser given the willingness to invest in the development of both the silicon and software. With the computing power available today, use of sub micron technology in the silicon which aids in reducing size and power requirements, don't be surprised if an affordable golf GPS doesn't start approaching that level of accuracy in the near future. Just my $.02. [/quote][/color]

[color="#1C2837"]And this is why I switched from being an exclusive laser user to a 90% GPS/10% laser user. I tried the iPhone app and that was a complete waste of time as I am a low handicapper and being 10-15 yards off, as it often was, rendered it useless for my game. I have a uPro and it locks on better than my car GPS and is never off by more than 2-3 yards when I use my laser to challenge a reading. Finally, a laser requires line of sight and that is often not really available to the spot I want to measure. [/color]
[color="#1C2837"]
[/color]
[color="#1C2837"]Good luck![/color]

[friscoloco]

[quote name='csaltz22' date='04 March 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1267720100' post='2292661']
All of these comments sure have given me a lot to think about and I appreciate all the participation. Only problem is I am now more torn between the two than before, was leaning toward a GPS but my wife just got a new smart phone that can do GPS (I have a company phone that can not have a golf gps put on it). If my phone did GPS I would definetly get a laser and have both, but since I would probably only get her phone on the weekends, if she lets me, I am still torn between both. Kinda leaning toward a laser now and supplementing with my wifes phone GPS when I can, but worried about the ease of use for a laser on the course. Plus, my irons arn't that accurate that I need to know 158 to the pin, a estimate of 155 would work for me right now, but as I, hopefully, improve a more accurate device would be nice.
[/quote]

CSALTZ22,

If I were you I would buy the GPS product that you think is fit for your game (Price, Warranty, Size and Features being the most important factors). Get it set up and take it on a test drive for a few rounds. If you like it, keep it. If not, return it for a full refund. Most major golf retailers are fine taking back a product if you have not damaged it. Manufacturers would rather you give it a shot and deal with restocking if they have faith in their products.

I have attached a GPS comparison chart which may help you make your choice. Enjoy!