Els' calamity on 15

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='bigred90gt' date='10 April 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1270938280' post='2372307']
I had something similar happen in a tournament. I teed up my ball, picked my line, and had addressed the ball. I had performed my typical pre-shot waggle, and just as I was about to swing, all 3 of the guys in my group start yelling "WOAH WOAH! DONT HIT!". I thought someone had driven their cart out in our fairway or walked in front of the tee box or something. I backed off, and one of the guys says "you're at the wrong tee". None of us noticed until right before I hit. I'm no rules official, but I wouldnt think they should be penalized for giving advice.
[/quote]

Giving advice on the rules is perfectly acceptable. Just like asking your playing partner if they saw where the ball last crossed the hazard or if telling somebody to make sure they replace their ball marker.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='jjj912' date='16 April 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1271428812' post='2383111']
Els wasn't proceeding under 27-1a or 28a (Ball Unplayable). He was attempting to use Rule 26-1a (Water Hazard), which is not permissible because his ball is not in a water hazard. Thus, the dropping of the second ball was an illegal substitution and 15-2 is the applicable rule.
[/quote]

Now I see where you are coming from jjj912. And I do find your observation interesting. But I also now see that you seem to be presuming that Els was taking relief from a water hazard, and not from an unplayable lie, or simply randomly deciding to put another ball in play under stroke and distance penalty as one can decide to do. I don't think he actually said anything to anyone, and that might have been key if he had in fact dropped the ball.

I don't doubt for a minute that Els thought he was in the hazard, but I believe that he would have had to declare that his drop was for relief from the hazard in order to benefit from the loophole you cleverly note. I believe if you simply drop a ball with the intention of putting it in play, you're stuck with it as long as it is dropped properly.

This is all quite interesting (at least to me!)

[jjj912]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='16 April 2010 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1271432867' post='2383266']
[quote name='jjj912' date='16 April 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1271428812' post='2383111']
Els wasn't proceeding under 27-1a or 28a (Ball Unplayable). He was attempting to use Rule 26-1a (Water Hazard), which is not permissible because his ball is not in a water hazard. Thus, the dropping of the second ball was an illegal substitution and 15-2 is the applicable rule.
[/quote]

Now I see where you are coming from jjj912. And I do find your observation interesting. But I also now see that you seem to be presuming that Els was taking relief from a water hazard, and not from an unplayable lie, or simply randomly deciding to put another ball in play under stroke and distance penalty as one can decide to do. I don't think he actually said anything to anyone, and that might have been key if he had in fact dropped the ball.

I don't doubt for a minute that Els thought he was in the hazard, but I believe that he would have had to declare that his drop was for relief from the hazard in order to benefit from the loophole you cleverly note. I believe if you simply drop a ball with the intention of putting it in play, you're stuck with it as long as it is dropped properly.

This is all quite interesting (at least to me!)
[/quote]

After re-reading some of the rules and decisions, I think that my attempts to play lawyer and find a loophole aren't going to make the cut.

[i][b]Rule 26-1[/b]
[...]In order to apply this Rule, [u]it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard[/u]. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. [...][/i]

Els can't proceed under Rule 26 because he didn't verify that the ball was actually in the hazard - he just assumed it was. So my brilliant Illegal Substitution loophole falls apart.

Seeing how Els didn't pay me, I guess he got what he paid for.