Irritating Ebay buyer

[tony Q]

what can and should I do?

Ok, this is whats happend.
I've sold a driver to someone. they paid immidiatley, and I left feedback stright away. Customer recieved in the right handling time of 2-3 days as stated on listing of driver. The customer has not left feedback and has written back to me saying "please mail your address and I will post club back. please refund with out postage. not happy as I thought driver was too closed."
Now, I haven't offered a returns policy because I'm new to Ebay. All this refunding business seems weird, plus I offer my goods in a very honest way. If its in cr*p condition I tell them so.
This customer has a feedback score of 2. both positive.

what can and should I do?

[tony Q]

I just don't want any negative feedback over something that isn't my fault.

[rgjusa]

Post the ebay auction for starters so we know what we are looking at. Thx.

[tony Q]

this is it.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...%3D50%26fvi%3D1

 

item 7246907718 onebay.co.uk

[arkstorm]

I think "driver too closed" is tough luck for the buyer. That is a feature of the club, like paint too bright or grip too rubbery, not any issue with damage or misrepresentation over the flex or loft.

 

 

I completely agree. I've done tons of business on eBay and as far as it goes, the standard of practice on eBay is that if you accurately represented the item, you upheld your end of the bargain. Its the buyer's obligation to do the homework on the design qualities of the items they bid on. Buying on eBay is not like buying from a department store. You can't expect to get the item and if it doesn't suit your eye to just return it to the seller. Auctions are inherently an "all sales are final" arrangement unless the seller excplicitly offers a return policy. Otherwise its tough doo doo for him.

[rgjusa]

First thing, move all monies from your paypal to your bank account. Just in case it gets nasty. Do not count on any help from paypal or ebay. Next, tell him to take a hike you have been honest, have good quality pics, too closed, too open, tough. Tell him that is a feature of this club and he should have done his homework.

[tony Q]

this was his last mess to me today. rude

 

Returning driver as stated in my last message. Send address and refund payment less postage

[schlebrock]

this was his last mess to me today. rude

 

Returning driver as stated in my last message. Send address and refund payment less postage

If you're concerned with your feedback rating, take the club back. He's definitely going to leave you negative feedback whether or not it's your fault. However, I would not return any money to him until after you get back the club. I would also ask for the auction fees back too. There's no point in taking a hit in fees when you shouldn't have to.

 

Then just relist the club and hope to sell it to another person.

 

That's my $0.02!

 

Hope that helps.

[tony Q]

thanks for your advice. I just can't be bothered with people like this. I may just see what happens.

good idea about listing fees. cheers

[Leftygolfin]

If sold a ton of stuff on ebay and sometimes you get some crazy buyers. I would be polite and tell him that you do not have a return policy and that all sales are final. Advice him that you are not a business and was just selling this particular club. Maybe he would understand. Advise him that you can not accept refunds just because the club is to closed to him. Maybe he is just a knucklehead and doesn't understand how it works.

 

1 in 50 buyers will be high maintance and it is tuff to keep a perfect feedback. I have struggled with a few and have kept a perfect feedback by bending over backwards sometimes. If your to worried about the feedback issue you could post a followup to his negative if you need to. Or you can just do the refund but that is no guarntee that you will get a positive feedback. Thats my 2 cents.

[king1066]

Sounds like this guy is an moron. Every driver, that Iv'e seen, over 9 degrees are somewhat closed and when you get to 13 degrees it is most definatley going to be a closed face design.

[Asleep]

You need to take the return to protect your feedback, imo.

 

Your listings need to include a return policy, like "no returns accepted."

 

Try to anticipate any future problems a buyer may try to claim and put it in writing in your ad before listing.

 

I agree that face angle is not legitimate reason for return unless you specify it in your listing (i.e. 1* open.)

 

File a dispute with Ebay stating the buyer and seller have mutually agreed to void the transaction. He will have to answer this open dispute agreeing same. Then you can recover your Ebay selling fees.

 

Do not refund any money until you see the club is in the same condition as shipped. Open the box in front of the delivery guy.

 

Refund all except your shipping costs. His shipping costs are his problem.

 

As a seller, never give positive feedback before your buyer does in the future. :friends:

[Bushy]

No chance the guy is trying it on and your driver may not be the same after he has thrashed 100 range balls with it. I would tell him that he has purchased the driver as per ebay rules and you would like a positive feedback as the club is as described. see what he says . Failing that agree the refund less your fees and get your feedback first or failing that take the hit on your feedback and tell him to grow up. Having one neg is no bad thing you can back it up with a comment of your own the guy sounds like an idiot who probably shops at American Golf Good luck

[theothertwo]

Make sure you block this Ebayer from all your other auctions.

[mji009]

No chance the guy is trying it on and your driver may not be the same after he has thrashed 100 range balls with it. I would tell him that he has purchased the driver as per ebay rules and you would like a positive feedback as the club is as described. see what he says . Failing that agree the refund less your fees and get your feedback first or failing that take the hit on your feedback and tell him to grow up. Having one neg is no bad thing you can back it up with a comment of your own the guy sounds like an idiot who probably shops at American Golf Good luck

 

I totally agree with this post. I wouldn't refund or take back the driver. To add, if he leaves negative feedback just put a note to it for other eBayers to see. Since you have perfect feedback right now, 99.5 won't hurt you. People will just look at your 1 negative and say to themselves that the buyer was probably a friggin' moron...and in this case he is a moron.

[themouth1]

The most important bit of advice I have seen is this thread so far is to REMOVE ALL YOUR MONEY FROM YOUR PAY PAL ACCOUNT. If you do not and he files a complaint, your money could be tied up for 60 days or more. I have had a similar issue. You described the item accurately and delivered as promised. I would tell him to take a hike.

[vsproto]

great looking club. tell the buyer to stick it. no refund.

[tony Q]

I think I might just take the bad comments and beware of people bidding on my items. I might even request that I only deal with people with a minnimum positive feedback of 50. good idea?

[pingwrx]

One thing I ususally note on my auctions is "standard specs from factory" so they know this is how it comes from the manufacturer. You would assume buyers would preview a club at a local proshop before bidding on eBay, but I guess not.

 

One time, I sold a Newport Oil Can on ebay and the buyer emailed me, about a week after receiving it, that all of his putts are missing to the right with the putter. I'm thinking...hmmm perhaps you need to go take a golf lesson...but I was polite and replied to him that all the specs are original from factory and didn't know why the putts were missing to the right. :friends:

[Boba]

All 13.5 drivers have a closed face. It is called effective loft. tell the buyer to check out "effective loft" on google. He will learn that drivers are closed to the eye & square to the line. thus negating his "it looked too closed" argument. If that doesn't work, tell the guy to put on a ribbed grip 2* weak & he will be fine.

[tony Q]

Sale date was 11th june and its now 21st and still no feedback.

I have got to the point where I don't mind what that person does.

Who knows, might not even get feedback at all.

 

One thing is for sure, I will be describing items a bit better in future.

[grumpy123golf]

Sale date was 11th june and its now 21st and still no feedback.

I have got to the point where I don't mind what that person does.

Who knows, might not even get feedback at all.

 

One thing is for sure, I will be describing items a bit better in future.

 

i have had a similar problem with a ebay moron - sold a perfectly good driver - buyer contacted approx a week after del and said i had overcharged him postage by approx 3 dollars then a few days later said he had found a mark on the club and wanted discount , i said he could send it back for full refund on my inspection ,he didnt want to send it back but wanted a discount - two months later he left a negative feedback spoiling my 100% record of over 50 transactions -i complained to ebay but they didnt want to know - definately learned a lesson = never refund without inspecting returned goods and never giver feedback until your buyer has left theirs. :friends:

[rgjusa]

Don't beat yourself up by thinking that it is your description. You cannot possibly hope to counter every idiot that can access ebay. The more you deal, the more you will find that there are tossers out there that want to squeeze you dry in every possible way, sometimes for less money than I carry in loose change. Most people that will buy from you in the future will look at your feedback overall (yes, they will definitely look at your negs) and take it into account across the spectrum of deals. We all know that there are great buyers out there, just as there are crap buyers, and people are not going to be put off, especially if in your response to any neg you demonstrate you tried to do the right thing. It has never stopped me buying from someone that I can see has been given a rough ride. The only thing that would stop me is if there was a definite pattern to the feedback. You have nothing to berate yourself about as far as I can see.

 

PS. I hope you did as I said and moved the money from paypal, as they may freeze your account if your buyer gets nasty.

[jva]

Tell him you would love to refund his money but, your pockets are too closed! lol :yahoo:

[dfung]

I think most of the posts here have already hit most of the big points:

 

1) Be sure to include "All Sales Final" in all your future posts

2) Never give feedback to a buyer until they've given feedback to you. This may have the effect of you completing a mutually satisfactory sale and not getting a positive feedback point, but the buyer won't get their feedback upped either.

 

I don't think it makes sense to restrict selling to only people with a lot of feedbacks as you may wipe out a lot of people who might otherwise buy from you. Being really clear in the listing about no returns should solve most of your problems in this regard (if only it would fix the people who win but don't ever pay!).

 

With this guy, I also agree that it looks like it was somebody who thought they wanted it and changed their mind after receiving it. It's pretty likely that you'll have a hard time resolving this well no matter what you do. I guess I would write to him and tell him that you are a private seller and that the item was accurately described, so you won't accept a refund.

 

If he threatens negative feedback, then I think you're going to have to be prepared to take it, but, as mentioned above, I think your impact will be minimal since you can respond to a negative feedback.

 

What wasn't mentioned and which you also should think about is that there's no reason to expect the buyer to be truthful if they post negative feedback. If his negative feedback is "I didn't like the club and the seller wouldn't take it back" then you respond and everybody will write this low-feedback guy as a kook. The problem that you need to watch out for is that he could also post "Club was worn, not the same club as in the listing picture" and then it may negatively affect future buyers. There's not much you can do to stop this though, other than to be prepared for it.

 

If you really want to try to work around this, I think you could tell him that you shouldn't have to accept the return, but that you'll do it with the following conditions:

 

A) Remove the money from your PayPal account.

B) Write to the buyer, tell him you don't want to return, ask specifically what the problem is. Ask in this e-mail whether they hit any balls or not. Most people will say they didn't hit a single ball with it, and if that's the case, you've set the groundwork that there will be absolutely no return if there's any wear since you sent it.

C) Buyer has to post positive feedback for you immediately (to the effect that you were a good seller who worked to resolve issues), before they even send the club back. If you honestly don't feel that the tone of the feedback is proper, then you can tell him the deal is off. I guess you could even accept a positive feedback with a negative comment!

D) No refund for shipping fees to him or eBay listing fees. No payment for return shipping either. He's responsible for insuring the return shipment.

E) Refund will not be made until you receive the club back and confirm that it's in the same condition that you sent it. Be realistic here - if it comes back with a sky mark that's clearly not OK, and if it had been a new club and had ball marks that would also be bad, but if it was used but good condition and would seem the same way upon return, I wouldn't raise hell about that.

F) If everything is OK, give him his money back.

 

You had a lot of offers on this club, so it's a sure thing that you'll be able to sell it again with relatively little hassle (well, this ain't "little hassle" but it's not dental work either).

 

Good luck!

[ws6]

Is 100% + that big of a deal? I don't think so, as a matter of fact I'm a little suspect of 100% + feedback. I mean we are all human, and disagreement is part of it.

 

I recently left a seller negative feedback for a defective product that he refused to make right. I had the same thoughts about ruining my 100% rating, but I left him negative feedback, and he returned my feedback with a negative. After some thought I decided so what I'm 99%, big deal, it isn't like EBAY is going to take away my birthday.

[tony Q]

Unfortunately, the customer has filed a dispute. He says that my description did not say that the club face was closed and deserves a refund.

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

[rgjusa]

You had to see that one coming - you did move the money I hope. I have never been involved in a direct dispute with ebay and I put that down to luck. This is a case of buyers remorse. Or his mum stopped his pocket money. Who will decide if it is closed or not? I can pick up any club and decide that it is square, open, closed, and someone else can say I am talking b@ll#cks...I can't believe that ebay will do anything other than tell him to sod off on the basis that he, as we all know here, is trying it on.

 

I have no idea what happens next with the dispute process in a case such as this (someone will explain) but I would be after (or have these in my back pocket):

 

1) He send the club back to you on the agreement that if you get it verified as "not closed" he takes it back and pays for all fees associated with this before return of the club

2) You get an independent engineers/clubmakers report based against the Ping specs - btw in answer to someones question you state it is exactly as the ping specs (shaft) and have been nothing less than honest in your answers if that counts for anything in this case

3) If it is closed, you refund him his money less postage, all Golfwrxers consultation fees (I waive mine to you!), all engineers/clubmakers fees including postage, packaging, fuel to/from Post Office, internet time et al. - btw I estimate that these come out to 152.50 as a minimum :yahoo:

4) If it is not closed, he agrees that you return the club to him at his cost once he pays the engineer/clubmaker fees by dd/mm/yyyy otherwise you put it back in the bag or on ebay

 

I am sure there is more that I could go on about but you get the gist of what I am suggesting...mind you ebay may just tell him to get over it...keep us all posted...

 

Oh...and someone mentioned this before, all clubs tend to look closed at certain lofts...

[dfung]

Tony - That sucks, man.

 

I've never been on either end of an eBay dispute. Seems to me that you should tell eBay that the club is unmodified from original condition and that you didn't know of any deviation from factory specs, therefore you believe your description and the sale are fully valid and binding. If the buyer thinks that the club is NOT of the same specs as a new, off-the-shelf club, then he should (at his own cost) contact Ping corporate (were you in the UK? their UK distributor then) and have them validate that something is not right. I don't think a dealer (who could easily be manipulated or unable to make an accurate determination) should be acceptable.

 

Put the pressure on him to prove that something's wrong. You're the guy with a long history of positive feedback, a typical listing, and presumably a perfectly good item for sale which you delivered to him in a timely manner. There's no sign of any bad faith on your part at all, but it sure likes like buyer's remorse from a newbie on his part. He's the one making a claim about the applicability of the item - make him prove it rather than just say "it's bad".

 

Good luck!

[tony Q]

Well, its official, I got the driver back and will be reselling in the next coming week. I refunded idiot with the money and now just waiting for feedback. I can assure everyone here i will be changing the description just a "little" bit. I figured that it wasn't worth arguing with this person.

 

I would like to thank everyone that has advised me on this irritating customer, and all the usefull tips they have given me. In fact, I was intrigued by the response from everybody.

THANK YOU ALL.

 

GolfWRX rules!!