Lost ball and out of bounds rule?

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='aliikane' timestamp='1283880899' post='2683455']
But I just don't understand the rule. I don't think the penalty should be any greater than a water hazard, especially for a lost ball. just my opinion.
[/quote]

To take relief (with one stroke penalty) from a water hazard, "it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard." (Rule 26-1) Otherwise it is a lost ball. Also, a water hazard has a clearly defined boundary. There is no "boundary" where a ball becomes lost.

So...if the ball is lost, how would you know where to hit the next shot from? If you *do* know where to hit from, why can't you find the ball? What would prevent someone from saying "hmmmm...it was lost somewhere right around here", drop and take one shot penalty from a nice location, when the player knows the ball is really in jail (and purposefully doesn't bother to find it)?

Even though it may make sense that a lost ball shouldn't be penalized more than a ball in a hazard, in practice it would be difficult to make the penalties equal.

I assume we are talking about competitive play here, not just a casual/practice round.

[Tylanthus]

I believe the lost ball and OB rules are perfectly fine. However, I think a lot of courses overuse white stakes.

To help speed play, I think a lot of white stakes around people's homes, private fields, etc should be marked as something akin to environmentally sensitive areas. Take your hazard drop but leave your ball (aka, don't trespass).

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1283883869' post='2683545']
To take relief (with one stroke penalty) from a water hazard, "it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard." (Rule 26-1) Otherwise it is a lost ball. Also, a water hazard has a clearly defined boundary. There is no "boundary" where a ball becomes lost.
So...if the ball is lost, how would you know where to hit the next shot from? If you *do* know where to hit from, why can't you find the ball? What would prevent someone from saying "hmmmm...it was lost somewhere right around here", drop and take one shot penalty from a nice location, when the player knows the ball is really in jail (and purposefully doesn't bother to find it)?
Even though it may make sense that a lost ball shouldn't be penalized more than a ball in a hazard, in practice it would be difficult to make the penalties equal.
I assume we are talking about competitive play here, not just a casual/practice round.
[/quote]

If you follow the flight of your ball, you should have some idea where the ball crossed the margin or boundary of said hazard, whether it is water, knee high grass, woods etc. Taking that point and a line to the pin or hole, that is the line you drop the ball on.
Not sure about you or anyone else here, but I play all rounds under the rules of golf paying no mind to whether it is casual or competitve round.

[bermuda]

I was playing a few weeks ago and on the second hole hit a drive just off the fairway. After looking, I couldn't find the ball and had one in my hand getting ready to toss it down and take two strokes when I found the original ball. I went on to shoot my best 18-hole score ever. I'm glad I followed the rules.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='bermuda' timestamp='1283889604' post='2683770']
I was playing a few weeks ago and on the second hole hit a drive just off the fairway. After looking, I couldn't find the ball and had one in my hand getting ready to toss it down and take two strokes when I found the original ball. I went on to shoot my best 18-hole score ever. I'm glad I followed the rules.
[/quote]

Congratulations, I'm glad for you too. By the way, If you had tossed another down, but hadn't hit it yet, and then found your original ball before the five minutes was up, you could simply pick up the extra ball you tossed and play your original without penalty. (Since there is no provision in the rules to toss a ball down near where you lost your ball, that tossed ball was not in play and you would correctly be hitting the original.)

In any case, as you suggest, you never know how good a round you'll have until it's over, and keeping square with the rules is good insurance against the horror of shooting a personal best while cheating.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Tylanthus' timestamp='1283886505' post='2683658']
I believe the lost ball and OB rules are perfectly fine. However, I think a lot of courses overuse white stakes.

To help speed play, I think a lot of white stakes around people's homes, private fields, etc should be marked as something akin to environmentally sensitive areas. Take your hazard drop but leave your ball (aka, don't trespass).
[/quote]


I bet the people living in those homes are perfectly fine with O.B. having one of the harshest penalties in golf! (Some of them might vote for DQ.)

[phil75070]

[quote name='Tylanthus' timestamp='1283886505' post='2683658']
I believe the lost ball and OB rules are perfectly fine. However, I think a lot of courses overuse white stakes.

To help speed play, I think a lot of white stakes around people's homes, private fields, etc should be marked as something akin to environmentally sensitive areas. Take your hazard drop but leave your ball (aka, don't trespass).
[/quote]

Home's, private fields, etc. are clearly property not owned by the course and should definitely be "OB" and I, too, am sure the owners are pleased about that. Now, I don't think there should ever be an "in course" OB and can't even understand the reasoning for such a thing.

[Tylanthus]

As if the color of a stake can deter errant shots...what is the difference between a rules enforced no-trespassing sign and an OB marker when there is a house 20 yards off the fairway?

Safety around roads, driving ranges, and the occasional OB markers between fairways is one thing. OB markers with the intention of lowering the number of shanks directed at your dining room window doesn't make much sense to me. Living on a golf course has some inherent risks and 99% of them are insured to protect themselves.

Opinions I suppose. My vacation home has seen only a single broken window (plenty of close calls though)... I'd trade the color of the stakes for faster rounds at the course in a heartbeat.

[Newby]

[quote name='Tylanthus' timestamp='1283894408' post='2683925']
I'd trade the color of the stakes for faster rounds at the course in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

Why not build 18 football pitches with red lines all around. Tee at one end, hole at the oither. Play each in turn. You'll be in the 19th in an hour.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='BogeyDog11' timestamp='1283888540' post='2683731']
If you follow the flight of your ball, you should have some idea where the ball crossed the margin or boundary of said hazard, whether it is water, knee high grass, woods etc. Taking that point and a line to the pin or hole, that is the line you drop the ball on.
Not sure about you or anyone else here, but I play all rounds under the rules of golf paying no mind to whether it is casual or competitve round.
[/quote]

My point there is no such boundary for a LOST ball (not a ball in a hazard). So the stroke and distance penalty is the only rule that is practical.

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1283891987' post='2683849']
Home's, private fields, etc. are clearly property not owned by the course and should definitely be "OB" and I, too, am sure the owners are pleased about that. Now, I don't think there should ever be an "in course" OB and can't even understand the reasoning for such a thing.
[/quote]

I agree on the "in course" OB. My home course has a treeline/fence row that splits the front nine from the back nine.
You can see it in the photo between holes 3 & 18 and 4 & 10. It drives lots of people nuts. There has been talk for twenty years about removing it, but nothing has been done.

[Sawgrass]

I play a course with a par 5 13th hole that is a sweeping dogleg right. It's 508 yards if your shots stay in the middle of the fairway, but if you were to shoot into the adjoining fairway on the right side (the 14th, the next hole coming back) and go straight at the hole, you would cut the hole down to only about 400 yards. The designers (and the people playing 14 walking back at you!) don't want you to take that shortcut even though it's on the course, so they have an interior out of bounds on the right side of the 13th's fairway.

BTW, those out of bounds stakes only apply when you're playing the 13th hole. When you're playing the 14th, where there would be no advantage to crossing the o.b. line, the stakes are not to be considered.

(It all seems reasonable to me.)

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1283947100' post='2684981']
I play a course with a par 5 13th hole that is a sweeping dogleg right. It's 508 yards if your shots stay in the middle of the fairway, but if you were to shoot into the adjoining fairway on the right side (the 14th, the next hole coming back) and go straight at the hole, you would cut the hole down to only about 400 yards. [i][b]The designers [/b][/i](and the people playing 14 walking back at you!) don't want you to take that shortcut even though it's on the course, so they have an interior out of bounds on the right side of the 13th's fairway.

BTW, those out of bounds stakes only apply when you're playing the 13th hole. When you're playing the 14th, where there would be no advantage to crossing the o.b. line, the stakes are not to be considered.

(It all seems reasonable to me.)
[/quote]

Seems reasonable that someone who thinks they could legitimately call themselves a designer, would not build a hole like this.

I personally don't think it is reasonable to further punish a golfer due to a poorly conceived design.

[Augster]

[quote name='tjy355' timestamp='1283973397' post='2685628']


Seems reasonable that someone who thinks they could legitimately call themselves a designer, would not build a hole like this.

I personally don't think it is reasonable to further punish a golfer due to a poorly conceived design.
[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly. If you are somewhere on the property of the golf course, you certainly aren't "out of bounds" by definition.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Augster' timestamp='1283991549' post='2686177']
[quote name='tjy355' timestamp='1283973397' post='2685628']
Seems reasonable that someone who thinks they could legitimately call themselves a designer, would not build a hole like this.

I personally don't think it is reasonable to further punish a golfer due to a poorly conceived design.
[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly. If you are somewhere on the property of the golf course, you certainly aren't "out of bounds" by definition.
[/quote]

Well, you may agree, but you're wrong about the definition of out of bounds:

[url=""][/url][b]Out of Bounds
[/b]"[i]Out of bounds[/i]" is beyond the boundaries of the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Course"][i]course[/i][/url] or any part of the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Course"][i]course[/i][/url] so marked by the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Committee"][i]Committee[/i][/url].

[url=""][/url][b]
I'm unsure about where all this out of bounds anger is coming from . . .
[/b]

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1283901925' post='2684170']

My point there is no such boundary for a LOST ball (not a ball in a hazard). So the stroke and distance penalty is the only rule that is practical.
[/quote]

So very true. Interesting that the rules of golf have evolved over more than a century but there are always people who have played the game for two years, think they have it all figured out and want to change the rules.

[BogeyDog11]

[quote name='Augster' timestamp='1283991549' post='2686177']
I agree whole-heartedly. If you are somewhere on the property of the golf course, you certainly aren't "out of bounds" by definition.
[/quote]


In-correct. My home course has several area's inside the boundaries of the course staked white as OB (white lines on map). Most are wooded area's, but none the less OB.

[boatrightgolf7]

I never play out of bound if I can find it I hit it or drop and take a 1 stroke penalty. Golf is hard enough and the one stroke rule only makes logical sense. For one you hit a ball into a bush it's unplayable you drop take a 1 stroke penalty and hit it. Secondly you hit the ball into the water obviously it's out of play another 1 stroke penalty. Ob was originally designed to exasperated golf course and non golf course land to eliminate trespassers, because if it's out a foot then what's to stop someone from playing 40 yards in it's simply out of bounds. I agree with the previous comment that it adds flair to the game,but not not really it just makes unreasonably difficult and over punishing we amateurs don't have ball spotters either so playing the lost ball rule is also lame. I say in matches and local tournaments even small mini tour events that ob and lost ball should get eliminated it would do nothing to previous golf records I mean how? Overall 1 stroke should be the max penalty in golf there are hazards on the course for 1 stroke penalty and hazards off the course for one stroke penalty.

[boatrightgolf7]

On course ob is also really stupid it makes no sense at all? The lost ball rule to me is the worst maybe it;s plugged where did it go i crushed my drive into the light rough now it's gone? The lost ball rule seems fair to prevent cheating,but it also punishes good shots where is the fine line?

[Sawgrass]

You'd really like bowling. They return your ball to you.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

The best solution for playing on a crowded course with white stakes here, there and everywhere is match play instead of stroke play. No need for made-up pseudo rules, if you can't reasonably go back and replay the hole it only means conceding a hole you would have lost anyway and it's just a better game for weekend golfers anyhow. You can even make up a number to put on your card if you like because it doesn't matter.