Can Hogan's Swing be Duplicated?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

So what do you guys call a "pusher" of the club?"

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

He can't go down the line or out like fowler then if he's so open. Also he has a really bent right arm...which is another reason he has to be so open.

so I don't see anything that's CF about it. He can't be. Otherwise then he'd have to not be so open so he can do the flinging.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1357759754' post='6198199']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

So what do you guys call a "pusher" of the club?"
[/quote]

For TGMers, that's a hitter - the club is pushed through impact with the right triceps.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357760403' post='6198271']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1357759754' post='6198199']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

So what do you guys call a "pusher" of the club?"
[/quote]

For TGMers, that's a hitter - the club is pushed through impact with the right triceps.
[/quote]

Hogan swing project you have a chance with this method! No left jug interference!

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357760317' post='6198261']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

He can't go down the line or out like fowler then if he's so open. Also he has a really bent right arm...which is another reason he has to be so open.

so I don't see anything that's CF about it. He can't be. Otherwise then he'd have to not be so open so he can do the flinging.
[/quote]

So you don't believe what he wrote in 5L and said in the Coleman vid? He comes into impact with a bent right arm, but extends it through impact. He says, writes, and illustrates that he throws the hands and you can't pull in against the cp and drive out at the same time. He says he wishes for 3 right hands, if the hands were just pulled though impact by the pivot, 3 right hands would just be 2 more dead weights to slow down the club.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357761012' post='6198321']

Hogan swing project you have a chance with this method! No left jug interference!
[/quote]

Nosireeeeeee! I'm sticking with the Hogan method.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357761030' post='6198325']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357760317' post='6198261']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

He can't go down the line or out like fowler then if he's so open. Also he has a really bent right arm...which is another reason he has to be so open.

so I don't see anything that's CF about it. He can't be. Otherwise then he'd have to not be so open so he can do the flinging.
[/quote]

So you don't believe what he wrote in 5L and said in the Coleman vid? He comes into impact with a bent right arm, but extends it through impact. He says, writes, and illustrates that he throws the hands and you can't pull in against the cp and drive out at the same time. He says he wishes for 3 right hands, if the hands were just pulled though impact by the pivot, 3 right hands would just be 2 more dead weights to slow down the club.
[/quote]

I certainly think he uses the arms and hands as another source of thrust. But the connection on his left side and his very fast opening of his body totally overtakes any CF tendencies that may be there. I think that's why he has his arms so tensed up looking in some images.
With that weak grip and the fast opening...I'm sure he was using everything he had in his frame to whack the ball....including his hands and arms.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357761030' post='6198325']
you can't pull in against the cp and drive out at the same time.
[/quote]

Hmmmm......you sure bout that MJ. Muuahahahahahahahah... [evil scientist laughter]

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1357761355' post='6198357']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357761030' post='6198325']
you can't pull in against the cp and drive out at the same time.
[/quote]

Hmmmm......you sure bout that MJ. Muuahahahahahahahah... [evil scientist laughter]
[/quote]

tembo's last post shows that he isn't! LOL

[tembolo1284]

hogan swing project....how about you put up some footage of your evil scientist laugh....cuz you ain't showing us your ballflight!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357761825' post='6198403']
hogan swing project....how about you put up some footage of your evil scientist laugh....cuz you ain't showing us your ballflight!
[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRamB30E9mU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRamB30E9mU[/url]

[dairic]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357761337' post='6198355']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357761030' post='6198325']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357760317' post='6198261']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357759141' post='6198119']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357758171' post='6197991']
But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?
[/quote]

I don't think so - cf is throwing the hands away from the swing center, which you can do with or without a pivot stall. cp is pulling against the lag pressure all the way to the finish.
[/quote]

He can't go down the line or out like fowler then if he's so open. Also he has a really bent right arm...which is another reason he has to be so open.

so I don't see anything that's CF about it. He can't be. Otherwise then he'd have to not be so open so he can do the flinging.
[/quote]

So you don't believe what he wrote in 5L and said in the Coleman vid? He comes into impact with a bent right arm, but extends it through impact. He says, writes, and illustrates that he throws the hands and you can't pull in against the cp and drive out at the same time. He says he wishes for 3 right hands, if the hands were just pulled though impact by the pivot, 3 right hands would just be 2 more dead weights to slow down the club.
[/quote]

I certainly think he uses the arms and hands as another source of thrust. But the connection on his left side and his very fast opening of his body totally overtakes any CF tendencies that may be there. I think that's why he has his arms so tensed up looking in some images.
With that weak grip and the fast opening...I'm sure he was using everything he had in his frame to whack the ball....including his hands and arms.
[/quote]

CP and what he wrote about the golf swing certainly don't seem to match. There is no way you do a concentration drill like he does with a CP intent. Nor do his practice swings have any CP in them. I was discussing this in another forum and the consensus was that his public clinics and practice swings were decoys to put off people like Snead. It's silly really. People like to see what they want in Hogans swing and get boxed into concepts like CP and CF. What if what he wrote and taught was all honest information? Would still match his swing? I think so.

[iteachgolf]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

[tembolo1284]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Very nice, thanks for the response iTeach.

 

You don't think he has that look because his grip is weaker than most? He has to somehow turn it over or else he'll hit it way right no? Is that where the CF comes in?

 

While I agree that trevino is certainly CF and also left swinging...he also stands open as hell...certainly used to. Isn't that also true of couples?

 

Vijay is a special case...I saw his hand come off the club in pics!

 

sir, are you cf or cp? I'm better than those two...I let go of the club through impact!

[tembolo1284]

What's up with westwood? Guy has his left arm bent through impact!

[tylerdurden]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Nice. Looks like me in similar position from similar angle:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtNP44exqN4

 

JK

[MizunoJoe]

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Maximum compression!

[iteachgolf]

I'm Inline to CF. CF/CP isn't about hinge action/wrist combinations. You can't be CP with your arms as deep for as long as Hogan's are in the downswing. Hogan's grip wasnt that weak, looks weak because he setup with handle back. Think of it this way, did he fade the ball because of his swing or because his clubs were extremely flat, stiff, ground to sit open, and he hit the ball out of the heel due to cog location of older clubs with long hosels?

Hogan hit small push fades. He wasn't swinging across the ball, and with today's clubs and standard specs he'd hit a draw.

[tylerdurden]

Thanks iteach i hope you keep posting in Hogan forum. This thread turned out pretty good.

[tembolo1284]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Nice. Looks like me in similar position from similar angle:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JtNP44exqN4

 

JK

 

Tyler looking good!

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357763509' post='6198601']
What's up with westwood? Guy has his left arm bent through impact!
[/quote]

Maximum leverage lol

[tembolo1284]

Hope christo likes it.

[iteachgolf]

 

Not what I'd call weak

[tembolo1284]

 

Not what I'd call weak

 

What would you call that just very neutral?

[dairic]

HOMEWORK: Everyone go read 5 lessons and the time life article with all this in mind, and report back with your thoughts.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357764429' post='6198707']
HOMEWORK: Everyone go read 5 lessons and the time life article with all this in mind, and report back with your thoughts.
[/quote]

Oh boy....I would get an F on that assignment.

Can I just watch swing video instead??

[MizunoJoe]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Nice. Looks like me in similar position from similar angle:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtNP44exqN4

 

JK

 

At :07, your wrist isn't arched and ahead of the left hand like Hogan's, if it were, you'd be 50 yds left in the trees.

[tembolo1284]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Nice. Looks like me in similar position from similar angle:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JtNP44exqN4

 

JK

 

At :07, your wrist isn't arched and ahead of the left hand like Hogan's, if it were, you'd be 50 yds left in the trees.

 

Mizuno I just spit water all over my screen. Hilarious!

[tylerdurden]

You can have open pivot and be CF. Trevino is the CF fade model.

 

You can have relatively square shoulders and be cp.

 

You can have right arm bent and and butt of club moving left and be CF. See Anthony Kim and Zach Johnson and many others.

 

You can be CP and "sling it" and have a high over taking rate. See VJ.

 

Hogan was inline mainly. Seen some CF fades with longer clubs and the only clubs he got CP with were short irons and only occasionally. CF and CP and extremely misunderstood and generally causes more confusion than help. Therefore they shouldn't be used since many people don't understand it or make their own definition.

 

Look at his wrist here and in virtually any shot take from out in front of him that actually shows the hands post impact. Certainly doesn't look like Mahan or any of the OPS guys trying to swing left.

 

Nice. Looks like me in similar position from similar angle:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JtNP44exqN4

 

JK

 

At :07, your wrist isn't arched and ahead of the left hand like Hogan's, if it were, you'd be 50 yds left in the trees.

 

Yeah good point. That's interesting. Hogan is so tricky.