Can Hogan's Swing be Duplicated?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Christo vs Hogan DTL iron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=t0UyCX21x5U

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Christo vs Hogan DTL wood.

 

 

 

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Will do different Christo swing with wood club and alignment marks later today. Time to head to the range!! It was cold this morning, but its gonna be 40 degrees at about 2pm....YES!!!!!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Dble post

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[tembolo1284]

Very nice there christo. Looks great. You can open up more even and bust it.

What I want to really know is how the hell you gained 22 mph swing speed haha. I saw your long drive video.

Insanity!

[tembolo1284]

hogan swing project you are becoming a real artist with these side by side comparisons.

Now if only you can apply that talent into tracking your ball flight on video. *cough*

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356972376' post='6143483']
hogan swing project you are becoming a real artist with these side by side comparisons.

Now if only you can apply that talent into tracking your ball flight on video. *cough*
[/quote]

He he......you just wait.....I'm gonna do an extensive series of ball flight vids of me.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1356975069' post='6143649']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356972376' post='6143483']
hogan swing project you are becoming a real artist with these side by side comparisons.

Now if only you can apply that talent into tracking your ball flight on video. *cough*
[/quote]

He he......you just wait.....I'm gonna do an extensive series of ball flight vids of me.
[/quote]

Hope so! Happy new year to you sir!

[bscinstnct]

I think the Hogan swing that is most followed was an effort to fight a hook.

So, to really emmulate, I suppose you should be a chronic hooker (ha!) . And then once you understand his mindset, you could go from there.

Hogan said his hooking was so bad he couldn't hit a left to right fairway if there were trees on righ. So I would say it is important to feel his mindset

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356972337' post='6143477']
Very nice there christo. Looks great. You can open up more even and bust it.

What I want to really know is how the hell you gained 22 mph swing speed haha. I saw your long drive video.

Insanity!
[/quote]

I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357572707' post='6183065']
I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...
[/quote]

Because his "Hogan" swing isn't Hogan's.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357583245' post='6184063']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357572707' post='6183065']
I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...
[/quote]

Because his "Hogan" swing isn't Hogan's.
[/quote]

How is it not like hogan's. Let's make it more specific

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357585062' post='6184219']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357583245' post='6184063']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357572707' post='6183065']
I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...
[/quote]

Because his "Hogan" swing isn't Hogan's.
[/quote]

How is it not like hogan's. Let's make it more specific
[/quote]

He's not driving his hands forward through impact like Hogan described on pg 200 of 5L. He's swinging them in a circle, one plane style, and probably wiping the driver just like many other one-planers. His solution is to go to a steeper cf swing to compress the ball.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357622401' post='6188673']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357585062' post='6184219']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357583245' post='6184063']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357572707' post='6183065']
I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...
[/quote]

Because his "Hogan" swing isn't Hogan's.
[/quote]

How is it not like hogan's. Let's make it more specific
[/quote]

He's not driving his hands forward through impact like Hogan described on pg 200 of 5L. He's swinging them in a circle, one plane style, and probably wiping the driver just like many other one-planers. His solution is to go to a steeper cf swing to compress the ball.
[/quote]

Awesome! And why does that happen? Why is he wipey like many other one-planers? What is he doing diff in his pivot that doesn't let him smash it like Hogan?

[tylerdurden]

MJ, I think Hogan felt forward because his arms were in front and felt like they were going forward relative to his core. But his core was opening very fast so his forward moving arms inevitably get pulled left (without him even trying to be low left). Every DTL video of Hogan clearly shows his hand path is moving away from the target line through impact. It's blatantly obvious. So does Hogan fit your definition of a wipe 1 planer? What about Woodland? Honest question.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357664996' post='6190739']
MJ, I think Hogan felt forward because his arms were in front and felt like they were going forward relative to his core. But his core was opening very fast so his forward moving arms inevitably get pulled left (without him even trying to be low left). Every DTL video of Hogan clearly shows his hand path is moving away from the target line through impact. It's blatantly obvious. So does Hogan fit your definition of a wipe 1 planer? What about Woodland? Honest question.
[/quote]

At release and to impact his right arm is under the left and he's driving his hands forward, but they quickly move left of the target line because of the pivot. He makes it clear in both the written and spoken word that the hand effort is not down or around through impact, but forward with the pressure on the trigger finger. He extends his right arm unlike the wipey one-planers, who are "swinging their hands in a little circle while the club head moves in a big circle"(their words, not mine).

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357652469' post='6189503']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357622401' post='6188673']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357585062' post='6184219']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357583245' post='6184063']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357572707' post='6183065']
I looked at more of his videos and he said he had a more jack nicklaus swing for his driver and went back to his hogan swing for the irons when he wanted more accuracy. I wonder why he felt he needed to do that. Hogan was able to turn on the power when he needed to. I wonder why christo felt like he couldn't do that with the hogan swing for the driver. Curious...
[/quote]

Because his "Hogan" swing isn't Hogan's.
[/quote]

How is it not like hogan's. Let's make it more specific
[/quote]

He's not driving his hands forward through impact like Hogan described on pg 200 of 5L. He's swinging them in a circle, one plane style, and probably wiping the driver just like many other one-planers. His solution is to go to a steeper cf swing to compress the ball.
[/quote]

Awesome! And why does that happen? Why is he wipey like many other one-planers? What is he doing diff in his pivot that doesn't let him smash it like Hogan?
[/quote]

I think if he's polishing the ball instead of compressing it with the driver, then his intention is to swing his hands left instead of driving them forward through impact from release through impact. Swinging the hands left can cause the driver head to move outside-in very easily because of it's length - maybe not every time, but enough to make him use a different swing for the driver.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357667416' post='6190995']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357664996' post='6190739']
MJ, I think Hogan felt forward because his arms were in front and felt like they were going forward relative to his core. But his core was opening very fast so his forward moving arms inevitably get pulled left (without him even trying to be low left). Every DTL video of Hogan clearly shows his hand path is moving away from the target line through impact. It's blatantly obvious. So does Hogan fit your definition of a wipe 1 planer? What about Woodland? Honest question.
[/quote]

At release and to impact his right arm is under the left and he's driving his hands forward, but they quickly move left of the target line because of the pivot. He makes it clear in both the written and spoken word that the hand effort is not down or around through impact, but forward with the pressure on the trigger finger. He extends his right arm unlike the wipey one-planers, who are "swinging their hands in a little circle while the club head moves in a big circle"(their words, not mine).
[/quote]

Cool. We are on the same page. I was just curious. I don't know much about one plane stuff but a teacher I was seeing in the spring tried to get me doing that "little circle" stuff. I did try, and there went my summer.

What you described is what I was trying to describe in the thread I started sunday about hogan's shirt buttons. His hands definitely go forward and his shoulders are closed quite late (i'm talking about power golf era). And doing that with a solid pivot automatically makes hand path get very left post impact. So it looks very "low left", but there is none of the little circle crap going on. And really you aren't trying to swing the arms left either IMO, pivot makes it happen automatically.

[tylerdurden]

Also, the low part of low/left is also only describing where the club is exiting. It doesn't mean you are feeling hands low or high IMO. Left arm is strait so that's all just a function of pivot as well.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357668595' post='6191107']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357667416' post='6190995']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357664996' post='6190739']
MJ, I think Hogan felt forward because his arms were in front and felt like they were going forward relative to his core. But his core was opening very fast so his forward moving arms inevitably get pulled left (without him even trying to be low left). Every DTL video of Hogan clearly shows his hand path is moving away from the target line through impact. It's blatantly obvious. So does Hogan fit your definition of a wipe 1 planer? What about Woodland? Honest question.
[/quote]

At release and to impact his right arm is under the left and he's driving his hands forward, but they quickly move left of the target line because of the pivot. He makes it clear in both the written and spoken word that the hand effort is not down or around through impact, but forward with the pressure on the trigger finger. He extends his right arm unlike the wipey one-planers, who are "swinging their hands in a little circle while the club head moves in a big circle"(their words, not mine).
[/quote]

Cool. We are on the same page. I was just curious. I don't know much about one plane stuff but a teacher I was seeing in the spring tried to get me doing that "little circle" stuff. I did try, and there went my summer.

What you described is what I was trying to describe in the thread I started sunday about hogan's shirt buttons. His hands definitely go forward and his shoulders are closed quite late (i'm talking about power golf era). And doing that with a solid pivot automatically makes hand path get very left post impact. So it looks very "low left", but there is none of the little circle crap going on. And really you aren't trying to swing the arms left either IMO, pivot makes it happen automatically.
[/quote]

All I have to say to that is: yes!

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357668910' post='6191147']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357668595' post='6191107']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357667416' post='6190995']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357664996' post='6190739']
MJ, I think Hogan felt forward because his arms were in front and felt like they were going forward relative to his core. But his core was opening very fast so his forward moving arms inevitably get pulled left (without him even trying to be low left). Every DTL video of Hogan clearly shows his hand path is moving away from the target line through impact. It's blatantly obvious. So does Hogan fit your definition of a wipe 1 planer? What about Woodland? Honest question.
[/quote]

At release and to impact his right arm is under the left and he's driving his hands forward, but they quickly move left of the target line because of the pivot. He makes it clear in both the written and spoken word that the hand effort is not down or around through impact, but forward with the pressure on the trigger finger. He extends his right arm unlike the wipey one-planers, who are "swinging their hands in a little circle while the club head moves in a big circle"(their words, not mine).
[/quote]

Cool. We are on the same page. I was just curious. I don't know much about one plane stuff but a teacher I was seeing in the spring tried to get me doing that "little circle" stuff. I did try, and there went my summer.

What you described is what I was trying to describe in the thread I started sunday about hogan's shirt buttons. His hands definitely go forward and his shoulders are closed quite late (i'm talking about power golf era). And doing that with a solid pivot automatically makes hand path get very left post impact. So it looks very "low left", but there is none of the little circle crap going on. And really you aren't trying to swing the arms left either IMO, pivot makes it happen automatically.
[/quote]

All I have to say to that is: yes!
[/quote]

Make that another yes! TD - sorry you got waylayed by the little circle virus, but don't be embarrassed because I've seen guys with tour cards trying it.

[tylerdurden]

Lol no worries. I actually wrote about why low left was the worst feeling ever after I started to realize I had the little circle sickness. Low left is real in terms of look and everything, but the feels and intentions of it have nothing to do with little circles as far as I can tell.

[dairic]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357671058' post='6191425']
Lol no worries. I actually wrote about why low left was the worst feeling ever after I started to realize I had the little circle sickness. Low left is real in terms of look and everything, [u]but the feels and intentions of it have nothing to do with little circles [/u]as far as I can tell.
[/quote]

I agree with you, and that's what so damn frustrating about this game...all these damn illusions all over the place!

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357680868' post='6192471']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357671058' post='6191425']
Lol no worries. I actually wrote about why low left was the worst feeling ever after I started to realize I had the little circle sickness. Low left is real in terms of look and everything, [u]but the feels and intentions of it have nothing to do with little circles [/u]as far as I can tell.
[/quote]

I agree with you, and that's what so damn frustrating about this game...all these damn illusions all over the place!
[/quote]

Yep for sure. I don't know if I'd say low left is an illusion though because it clearly happens. It's just super tricky for the untrained eye to understand what's really going on (I put myself in that bucket still BTW).

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357687787' post='6193151']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1357680868' post='6192471']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357671058' post='6191425']
Lol no worries. I actually wrote about why low left was the worst feeling ever after I started to realize I had the little circle sickness. Low left is real in terms of look and everything, [u]but the feels and intentions of it have nothing to do with little circles [/u]as far as I can tell.
[/quote]

I agree with you, and that's what so damn frustrating about this game...all these damn illusions all over the place!
[/quote]

Yep for sure. I don't know if I'd say low left is an illusion though because it clearly happens. It's just super tricky for the untrained eye to understand what's really going on (I put myself in that bucket still BTW).
[/quote]

It has to do with how fast the left shoulder opens up through and just past impact. Since the left arm is straight (or very close to it) at impact, as long as the upper left arm stays tight to the ribcage, the handpath must go left as the left arm isn't getting longer! If you raise the handle quite a bit, then the hand path can go DTL a bit longer.

[dairic]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357687787' post='6193151']
Yep for sure. I don't know if I'd say low left is an illusion though because it clearly happens. It's just super tricky for the untrained eye to understand what's really going on (I put myself in that bucket still BTW).
[/quote]

I think most of us are in that bucket.

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357689538' post='6193321']
It has to do with how fast the left shoulder opens up through and just past impact. Since the left arm is straight (or very close to it) at impact, as long as the upper left arm stays tight to the ribcage, the handpath must go left as the left arm isn't getting longer! If you raise the handle quite a bit, then the hand path can go DTL a bit longer.
[/quote]

HF, last time I remember you mentioning opening the left shoulder you said you were hitting smash factors that were off the chart. How's that going? Dent any club faces yet?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1357689538' post='6193321']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357687787' post='6193151']

Yep for sure. I don't know if I'd say low left is an illusion though because it clearly happens. It's just super tricky for the untrained eye to understand what's really going on (I put myself in that bucket still BTW).
[/quote]

It has to do with how fast the left shoulder opens up through and just past impact. Since the left arm is straight (or very close to it) at impact, as long as the upper left arm stays tight to the ribcage, the handpath must go left as the left arm isn't getting longer! If you raise the handle quite a bit, then the hand path can go DTL a bit longer.
[/quote]

Also, Hogan's left arm bends quickly after impact as his right arm drives forward, so his hands don't get moved as far left by the pivot as they otherwise would, as they drive DTL at impact here at :32, resulting in extraordinarily high hands at :36. If Hogan stalled his pivot, he would look like a cfer chasing down the line. In fact, I think he IS a cfer with a complete pivot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDO9GKrdS0I

[tembolo1284]

But would he be considered a CFer with the complete pivot? Don't those contradict each other?