My par 5 birdie conversion rate is terrible this tournament season

[getitdaily]

What do these patterns suggest about my par 5 struggles?

 

16 par 5s played. 

5 birdies

4 bogies

 

Play from 6700ish and carry driver 260 in firm conditions. +cap. Typically get 3 easily reachable per round. 2 courses had a par 5 that had a 2nd shot from 265ish. 265 is the peak reach of my 3w and I usually get as close as possible unless there's ob or water in play.

 

4 or 5 bad swings (2 tournaments coming off back injury that eliminated practice time for a few weeks)

 

4 course mgmt mistakes 

Several missed tough up and downs from poor course mgmt. 

 

5 missed putts inside 20 feet (4 of them were inside 12 feet)

 

 

Edited April 28 by getitdaily

[b.mattay]

1.) The GOOD: The birdie rate is about what I would expect with someone who hits it your distance. 

2.)The BAD:  Bogey rate is too high. You said it yourself, a couple bad swings and some bad course management. 

3.) The UGLY: if I started criticizing myself about putts from 10-20 feet, I would end up a psych ward, and I'm a GREAT putter. 

 

Also, that's only 4 rounds, let me know where you are at over the course of a season! 

[goaliedad30]

The birdie rate sounds fine. The bogey rate is the issue. I wonder if the pressure on "I've got to birdie this" is setting up either forced swings that get you out of position, or poor course management decisions. Obviously, if it's a green light, no trouble 2nd shot, go after it. But maybe you're attacking the risk / reward ones too hard?

[getitdaily]

Just now, goaliedad30 said:

The birdie rate sounds fine. The bogey rate is the issue. I wonder if the pressure on "I've got to birdie this" is setting up either forced swings that get you out of position, or poor course management decisions. Obviously, if it's a green light, no trouble 2nd shot, go after it. But maybe you're attacking the risk / reward ones too hard?

This is very possible. I have gotten a lot more aggressive as my swing has gotten more consistent. I very well may be thinking less about a good leave than in years past...

[getitdaily]

 

13 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

The birdie rate sounds fine. The bogey rate is the issue. I wonder if the pressure on "I've got to birdie this" is setting up either forced swings that get you out of position, or poor course management decisions. Obviously, if it's a green light, no trouble 2nd shot, go after it. But maybe you're attacking the risk / reward ones too hard?

On the 12 par 5s where I could get home in 2

 

3w approach - 5 times (1 birdie)

 

Hybrid approach - 2 times (1 birdie)

 

Iron approach - 5 times (3 birdies)

 

Hmmm, I probably need to manage where those 3w shots land better. 

Edited April 28 by getitdaily

[RacineBoxer]

In the grand scheme of things it's a pretty small sample size. 4 bogeys could be cut to 2 with: one swing and one putt, or one swing and one course management. Then you'd be at 4.81 avg which I imagine is pretty good for your level? 

[MountainKing]

Seems like you already know.  16 holes is way to small of a sample size to start panicking, especially coming back from a back injury.  Playing and practicing while healthy will work it out.  

[MonteScheinblum]

The answer is sometimes you stink.

 

In 1994 I was second on the kornferry tour in par breakers on par 5’s.

in 1995 I was 30 something.

 

in 2023, I was awful on par 5’s.

 

The answer is hit it better.  That’s always the answer for any scoring issue.

[getitdaily]

8 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Seems like you already know.  16 holes is way to small of a sample size to start panicking, especially coming back from a back injury.  Playing and practicing while healthy will work it out.  

Same trend as last year. Shafts in my wedges may be changing soon. Short game has been iffy since I put the $taper 8i shafts in.

[Hawkeye77]

As said, not much information provided and small sample size.  What were the particulars of the 4/5 times the 3w didn't result in birdie?  Sensing there is a Broadie-ish mentality with the get it "as close as possible" and maybe that just isn't the right thing to be doing?  

 

Driver carry at 260 and going all out to max out 3w at 265 seems like trying to do too much with the 3w at times in general?

 

 

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The answer is sometimes you stink.

 

In 1994 I was second on the kornferry tour in par breakers on par 5’s.

in 1995 I was 30 something.

 

in 2023, I was awful on par 5’s.

 

The answer is hit it better.  That’s always the answer for any scoring issue.

Definitely. Trying to figure out where I stink...lol

 

Putting 

Appears 3w approach course mgmt is a big one too.

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

As said, not much information provided and small sample size.  What were the particulars of the 4/5 times the 3w didn't result in birdie?  Sensing there is a Broadie-ish mentality with the get it "as close as possible" and maybe that just isn't the right thing to be doing?  

 

Driver carry at 260 and going all out to max out 3w at 265 seems like trying to do too much with the 3w at times in general?

 

 

1. 245ish wind slightly down and from right. Slight uphill stance and tried to cut it. Long and short weren't great. Wide green without much depth. Pulled it. I should have pounded my hybrid.

 

2. 265 out. Narrow but deep green. 6 foot drop off right of green. Huge bunker left of green. Planned and did hit it in the bunker. Front pin. Bad lie in bunker and left it in bunker. 

 

3. 230 out. 2 club wind into me. Pin cut back left. Hit a heely cut that landed pin high just off right of green. Straightforward pitch...about 60-70 feet. Left it about 12 feet short and missed it.

 

4. 265 to pin. 235-240 to front. Side hill, ball below my feet lie. Stood up just enough to hit it into a cross bunker. 65 to hole and landed it pin high.  Hadn't played course in 5 years and greens resodded last year. Forgot that long was dead. Ball took a big hop and ran down a slope off the back. Goid chip. Missed the 7 footer. There was zero trouble left or right of green for 20 yards either way, so 3w was the play. Especially since we had ball in hand. On this shot, I just stunk it up.

Edited April 28 by getitdaily

[BombinJim]

You’re well above my handicap but maybe get a shorter club in your hand on the 2nd shot? Some extra pop off the tee can’t hurt. Seems like you convert well with irons.

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

1. 245ish wind slightly down and from right. Slight uphill stance and tried to cut it. Long and short weren't great. Wide green without much depth. Pulled it. I should have pounded my hybrid.

 

2. 265 out. Narrow but deep green. 6 foot drop off right of green. Huge bunker left of green. Planned and did hit it in the bunker. Front pin. Bad lie in bunker and left it in bunker. 

 

3. 230 out. 2 club wind into me. Pin cut back left. Hit a heely cut that landed pin high just off right of green. Straightforward pitch...about 60-70 feet. Left it about 12 feet short and missed it.

 

4. 265 to pin. 235-240 to front. Side hill, ball below my feet lie. Stood up just enough to hit it into a cross bunker. 65 to hole and landed it pin high.  Hadn't played course in 5 years and greens resodded last year. Forgot that long was dead. Ball took a big hop and ran down a slope off the back. Goid chip. Missed the 7 footer. There was zero trouble left or right of green for 20 yards either way, so 3w was the play. Especially since we had ball in hand. On this shot, I just stunk it up.

 

You know your game, but sounds like forcing 3w shots that have more risk than the reward in some situations.  Still a small sample size but the sample suggests maybe laying up with something you can control and see if the results are any different?  

[doctor220]

So you’re -1 in total on these 16, assuming no eagles or doubles/worse? So averaging 4.9375 shots. That isn’t that bad. What do you think you should be averaging? 
 

how far + we talking? Statistically without any more info if like +1 to +3 probably peers average 4.7-4.8ish all else equal, perhaps slightly better on the good end of that range. You’re somewhat short for a + handicap so that probably contributes. It’s not like you’re going to average 4.3 on these. No one does that. 
 

You’re not really going to make putts from 20 feet that often. Missed putts inside of 8 feet are def opportunities maybe and area for improvement. 
 

this sample size is also pretty small and you may go through a similar stretch where you average 4.5 on these and including this prior stretch ends up totally averaging that 4.7 - 4.8 area which is where you prob should be. 
 

Have to have reasonable expectations for skill level 

Edited April 29 by doctor220

[doctor220]

17 hours ago, getitdaily said:

1. 245ish wind slightly down and from right. Slight uphill stance and tried to cut it. Long and short weren't great. Wide green without much depth. Pulled it. I should have pounded my hybrid.

 

2. 265 out. Narrow but deep green. 6 foot drop off right of green. Huge bunker left of green. Planned and did hit it in the bunker. Front pin. Bad lie in bunker and left it in bunker. 

 

3. 230 out. 2 club wind into me. Pin cut back left. Hit a heely cut that landed pin high just off right of green. Straightforward pitch...about 60-70 feet. Left it about 12 feet short and missed it.

 

4. 265 to pin. 235-240 to front. Side hill, ball below my feet lie. Stood up just enough to hit it into a cross bunker. 65 to hole and landed it pin high.  Hadn't played course in 5 years and greens resodded last year. Forgot that long was dead. Ball took a big hop and ran down a slope off the back. Goid chip. Missed the 7 footer. There was zero trouble left or right of green for 20 yards either way, so 3w was the play. Especially since we had ball in hand. On this shot, I just stunk it up.

Think your proximity matters here. For 1 , working ball against slope prob isn’t great but if no trouble probably not a bad decision to go for the green. 
 

for 2 could you have stayed short and avoided the drop offs with relatively easy pitch? Have to be realistic about chance of hitting a narrow green from 265 with trouble on either side. Maybe 20-30% chance ? 
 

3 sounds fine, you got yourself into a decent spot where you have less than a coin flip to make the putt. 
 

4 again fine approach (if anything probably strokes gained given difficult lie), got into a good spot. Missed 7 footer is far and away biggest issue strokes gained here. Am a similar skill level and tbh going for a green from that far away with a side hill lie is kinda my nightmare and prob not gonna go great 

[getitdaily]

25 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

So you’re -1 in total on these 16, assuming no eagles or doubles/worse? So averaging 4.9375 shots. That isn’t that bad. What do you think you should be averaging? 
 

how far + we talking? Statistically without any more info if like +1 to +3 probably peers average 4.7-4.8ish all else equal, perhaps slightly better on the good end of that range. You’re somewhat short for a + handicap so that probably contributes. It’s not like you’re going to average 4.3 on these. No one does that. 
 

You’re not really going to make putts from 20 feet that often. Missed putts inside of 8 feet are def opportunities maybe and area for improvement. 
 

this sample size is also pretty small and you may go through a similar stretch where you average 4.5 on these and including this prior stretch ends up totally averaging that 4.7 - 4.8 area which is where you prob should be. 
 

Have to have reasonable expectations for skill level 

+2.9 but playing tournaments like a 2 this year. First 2 events were coming off a back injury so I take those with a grain of salt. Although, my best par 5 execution was in the 1st event. Really bad swing off tee on 1 par 5 cost me bigly that event and that was all due to the back injury affecting setup. Hit a 7i about 100 yards the same day on a 170 yard par 3. 

 

After question in the thread, it seems I'm a bit lax on course mgmt when I have a 3w in. I intend to be much more intentional with those shots going forward.  "Manage the leave " a lot better.

 

I have to get my short game in order tho. It's been plaguing me, despite the practice time I put in. 

[getitdaily]

14 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Think your proximity matters here. For 1 , working ball against slope prob isn’t great but if no trouble probably not a bad decision to go for the green. 
 

for 2 could you have stayed short and avoided the drop offs with relatively easy pitch? Have to be realistic about chance of hitting a narrow green from 265 with trouble on either side. Maybe 20-30% chance ? 
 

3 sounds fine, you got yourself into a decent spot where you have less than a coin flip to make the putt. 
 

4 again fine approach (if anything probably strokes gained given difficult lie), got into a good spot. Missed 7 footer is far and away biggest issue strokes gained here. Am a similar skill level and tbh going for a green from that far away with a side hill lie is kinda my nightmare and prob not gonna go great 

For 1...I should have taken what the lie gave and hit a hard hybrid up in the air.  I think I got caught trying to hit it close rather than leave a good leave.

 

For 2 - no. Short of green slopes off in both directions and pin was cut short. The play was 100% to hit it into the bunker. Bit of bad luck on the lie...but here, I just completely stunk up the short game . Here's what the hole looks like. Very, very small flat spot on the fairway leading up to green. Probably 10 yards of flat spot and then it falls off on bith sides. 

 

For 4, just a bad swing. The back issue is mostly resolved but I slightly tweaked it working out the day before the event. Only bad swing I made all day. But that shot is yhe epitome of what I think my issue is. I had no thought of "leave" in mind. I was just hitting 3w "up there". Too lax mentally.

[kiawah]

Scratch(ish) competitive player here. I have had similar issues on par 5s when going for it and not being intentional enough/kind of hitting and hoping a bit too much.

 

What helped me is just trying to hit my 3 wood/7wood dead at the pin on my second shot. I don't want to put a good to great swing on it from 240+ out and have a tough two putt for birdie from 40+ feet. Middle of the green/fattest part of the green doesn't seem to have a significantly more positive impact on my scoring compared to laying up to a "happy" yardage.

If you're gonna go for it in 2, you might as well try to jar the thing. In the worst-case scenario, you leave yourself a tough chip and put it somewhere 10-20 feet away, but you still have an outside chance at making 4. If there's genuinely so much trouble that you can't go for the pin (or somewhere near it if it's really tucked) without totally screwing yourself if you miss, it's probably a layup anyway. Other than green light wedges to front pins or approach shots to very very easy pins from the fairway, my second shots on par 5s are the only ones I really go after the hole on. Play for eagle, hopefully make birdie, almost guaranteed par if you put a decent swing on it and manage your short game well. If the green is that guarded then just knock an iron down there to a number you like and aim to stick that one.  

 

That being said another big consideration is whether or not you're forcing yourself to go for it. I know all the strokes gained/DECADE/Stagner talking heads constantly rave about how you HAVE to get it as close to the hole as possible every time, but if you have an honest-to-goodness bad lie or the shot just doesn't set up well for you just play within yourself. You're a good player. You can get it up and in from the fairway. Go after it on your good chances but don't try to trick yourself into thinking every par 5 has to be a 2 shot hole. You will break out of the funk soon. 

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, kiawah said:

 not being intentional enough/kind of hitting and hoping a bit too much.

 

 

 

I honestly think this is a big factor. Gonna put it to the test Saturday. 

 

My shaky short game and putting of late certainly is an issue. But I need to manage my leave a lot better.

[kiawah]

17 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I honestly think this is a big factor. Gonna put it to the test Saturday. 

 

My shaky short game and putting of late certainly is an issue. But I need to manage my leave a lot better.

I think a thought process I had that helped was thinking about the fact that I am really deliberate (or at least try to be) with my target selection and intent on my approach shots from 50-100 yards and I still don't hit it where I want to all the time. If I'm not being very intentional from outside of 200 yards, how can I expect to get it close?

 

Sidebar: my short game and putting have been iffy at times so I have been spending at least 90% of my practice time on that. If my swing is off, I can usually diagnose it and get back into a good pattern pretty quickly, but the quality of the vast majority of my scores lives and dies with my performance 100 yards and in. I think there's a lot to be said about the players who really have fun hitting these shots and allow themselves to be creative and aggressive when possible/prudent. It will probably free you up on your second shots on par 5s if you give yourself the green light to knock down a pin knowing in the back of your head that you can scramble to save 4. 

[getitdaily]

Par 5 performance today...focus was managing my leave much better than I have been....

 

2 birdies

2 pars

 

1st par 5 (570) - 3 shot hole. Driver-3w to 60 yards out. Hit it to 10 feet and missed it

 

2nd par 5 (540) - driver 3w and left a fairly simple up and down and stunk up the pitch

 

3rd par 5 (535)- driver 3w to back of green. 2 putt birdie

 

4th par 5 (520) - driver hybrid to 35 feet. 2 putt birdie

 

Feel like I played them all well and left the ball in the spot for the easiest birdie opportunity I could have had. 

Edited May 5 by getitdaily