The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='larssonlegend' timestamp='1446232770' post='12529880']
Just back from the range and have to say i've never hit the ball better in 30 years playing golf. I'm 7 handicapper so always been semi decent striker but tonight was concentrating on tilt switch and cocking/uncocking /hinging wrists. I saw great results when i stared at a spot on mat when doing the switch and at same time uncocking straight down . Irons were crisp high and long.

Took a while to get it right with driver, what helped was imagining a ball just before real ball (probably low point of swing) So i hit real ball on up and stayed behind it.

Really excited about my golf . Just like to thank Jim and Kiwi for starting thread.
[/quote]

Congrats! Yes - Tilt Switch is a really Big Deal. And so is focusing your gaze on a spot on the ground and keeping it there until right after impact.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1446251797' post='12530984']
If you could only afford one of the dvd's which one would you buy? Or just get the ebook?
[/quote]

It depends on a several factors, mainly what your primary goal is.

We are getting a ton of positive feedback on all of the videos and on the e-book, but for most golfers - the ASI video Module Two will be the most enlightening info they have ever encountered on the golf swing.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1446252322' post='12531012']
Here is another question

Putter head tempo stays the same regardless of length of stroke

Eg shorter strokes are slower than longer strokes that are faster

Agree all strokes take same time?
[/quote]

Yes - very true for putting. We use "one thousand one" as the marker.

[mc3jack]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1446306828' post='12532908']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1446252322' post='12531012']
Here is another question

Putter head tempo stays the same regardless of length of stroke

Eg shorter strokes are slower than longer strokes that are faster

Agree all strokes take same time?
[/quote]

Yes - very true for putting. We use "one thousand one" as the marker.
[/quote]

Here in the PacNW, we hit off mats at the ranges. To interrupt the Ball Beater impulse, I putt three-footers on the range mat at the rubber tee . . . using he same tempo and time as my driver.

[Jim Waldron]

Here is an update on our video instruction program - "Great Shot! - Mastering the Craft of Ballstriking". More info or to purchase here: [url="http://www.balancepointgolf.com/index.php/pro-shop/golf-videos"]http://www.balancepo...hop/golf-videos[/url]

Trailers here: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1lSoxtsjUA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Q1lSoxtsjUA[/url]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHjApKRTVJI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=eHjApKRTVJI[/url]

A total of 14 videos, around 24 hours total viewing time, covering every aspect of the golf swing, from beginners to advanced players. Individual videos are released for purchase via download when they are completed. Total program should be finished by early next summer.

Module One has four videos, of 1.5-2 hours viewing time each. Part A: The Six Laws of Club Motion is about understanding how to use the "instrument" (golf club) as it moves through space and as it contacts the golf ball. Swing plane, clubface angle, angle attack/low point, shaft lean and other topics are covered. Part B: Basics of Body Motion is about understanding the "big puzzle pieces" of body mechanics and the three pre-swing fundamentals of grip/educated hands, aim and setup. Part C: Swing Map Drills is 19 drills designed to imprint new movement patterns into your subconscious mind to the level of dominant habit. Part D: more Swing Map drills and Advanced Setup elements including our Postural Braces. The first three videos are available now as downloads from our website. Part D should be up by mid-November.

Module Two: The Arm Swing Illusion is about how to understand the golf swing in true 3D motion, and about de-constructing the Illusion from your Swing Map, so that you have the foundation in place for learning proper arm, pivot and wrist mechanics. Available now.

Module Three: Advanced Arm Mechanics covers the Triangle, Three Arm Pressures, and similar topics. Mid-December target release date.

Module Four: Advanced Pivot Mechanics including Pivot Thrust; hip, core and shoulder girdle rotation; spine angle and spine tilts; weight shift and pivot influences on Balance. This Module will have two videos.

Module Five: Wrist Mechanics, Right Arm Angle Mechanics and the Release. This Module will have two videos.

Module Six: The Six Swing Segments. Breaking the swing down into six segments and an in depth exploration of the three mechanical systems technical details at each segment. Linking and Blending the segments into one whole motion. This Module will have two videos - backswing and forward swing.

Module Seven: Balance - the "righting instinct" and its effect on the golf swing. The Vertical Balance Line and how to maintain it. Footwork, ground pressures and other factors effecting Balance. Drills for mastering Balance.

Module Eight: Tempo, Rhythm, Timing and Sequencing the Forward Swing.

[poops]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1445747148' post='12503452']
[quote name='poops' timestamp='1445733313' post='12502686']
Jim,

I just began watching the ASI video I purchased earlier today. Is there concentrated content within the video on how to execute the proper pivot? From what I understand, the entire swing is greatly dependent on executing an ideal pivot. I'm aware grip and setup are also critical... :-)

Thanks!!
[/quote]

We cover the Pivot Mechanics in great depth and detail in Module Four - Advanced Pivot Mechanics. We completed the shooting of this module last week. It is a ton of material. drills and exercises - will likely need to be divided into two separate videos because of the length.

Arm Swing Illusion video goes into great detail on how to de-construct the Illusion from your Swing Map, and explains the relationship of the arms to the pivot and how to get those two primary pieces of the puzzle to sync up.

We also cover Pivot Mechanics in a basic fashion in Module One videos.
[/quote]

Would you recommend I wait for the Module 4 video? If so, when will it be available? Or do you think the Swing Map video would suffice for someone looking to "re-construct" his backswing/pivot?

[PepsiDuck]

[quote name='poops' timestamp='1446385214' post='12535970']
Would you recommend I wait for the Module 4 video? If so, when will it be available? Or do you think the Swing Map video would suffice for someone looking to "re-construct" his backswing/pivot?
[/quote]

I think Module 2 + Great Shot ebook is a good start.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='poops' timestamp='1446385214' post='12535970']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1445747148' post='12503452']
[quote name='poops' timestamp='1445733313' post='12502686']
Jim,

I just began watching the ASI video I purchased earlier today. Is there concentrated content within the video on how to execute the proper pivot? From what I understand, the entire swing is greatly dependent on executing an ideal pivot. I'm aware grip and setup are also critical... :-)

Thanks!!
[/quote]

We cover the Pivot Mechanics in great depth and detail in Module Four - Advanced Pivot Mechanics. We completed the shooting of this module last week. It is a ton of material. drills and exercises - will likely need to be divided into two separate videos because of the length.

Arm Swing Illusion video goes into great detail on how to de-construct the Illusion from your Swing Map, and explains the relationship of the arms to the pivot and how to get those two primary pieces of the puzzle to sync up.

We also cover Pivot Mechanics in a basic fashion in Module One videos.
[/quote]

Would you recommend I wait for the Module 4 video? If so, when will it be available? Or do you think the Swing Map video would suffice for someone looking to "re-construct" his backswing/pivot?
[/quote]

If your Pivot is your primary concern, best to wait for mod 4. I can only guess on release date, as my video editor has hours of footage from mod 3 to finish first. Likely mid-January. Or take a remote lesson with me devoted to your backswing pivot if you would rather not wait.

[ofortuna]

Hi Jim,

I have a question regarding another book on your recommended reading list Impact Zone by Bobby Clampett that I just read. I am able to get a nice straight divot in front of the ball with my hands leading and a flat left wrist but I am experiencing a few new feels:

1) I feel like I'm swinging over the top. However the divot is nice and straight down my target line.

2) My shoulders feel very open at impact. In order to leave a divot target side of the ball, it feels like my left shoulder is coming behind me and my right shoulder is going forward... much more than usual... in order to get my hands to lead the clubhead. End result is that my shoulders feel like they are opening up much earlier than usual.

3) Before I allowed my shoulders to turn open, I felt like I was stalling my shoulders and throwing my arms forward in order to get that target side divot.

I guess my question is if your divot is target side of the ball and straight, is that a sign of a good swing and that I can ignore the awkward feeling of coming over the top or my shoulders opening too early? Also, how do I know if I'm slapping with my arms through impact or keeping my arms connected and in front of me on my right side?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1446706786' post='12555470']
Hi Jim,

I have a question regarding another book on your recommended reading list Impact Zone by Bobby Clampett that I just read. I am able to get a nice straight divot in front of the ball with my hands leading and a flat left wrist but I am experiencing a few new feels:

1) I feel like I'm swinging over the top. However the divot is nice and straight down my target line.

2) My shoulders feel very open at impact. In order to leave a divot target side of the ball, it feels like my left shoulder is coming behind me and my right shoulder is going forward... much more than usual... in order to get my hands to lead the clubhead. End result is that my shoulders feel like they are opening up much earlier than usual.

3) Before I allowed my shoulders to turn open, I felt like I was stalling my shoulders and throwing my arms forward in order to get that target side divot.

I guess my question is if your divot is target side of the ball and straight, is that a sign of a good swing and that I can ignore the awkward feeling of coming over the top or my shoulders opening too early? Also, how do I know if I'm slapping with my arms through impact or keeping my arms connected and in front of me on my right side?
[/quote]

I am not a big fan of using divots too much as feedback - there are simply too many variables happening and so you can end up with false feedback. Just that you do want a divot going into the dirt from 6 iron through lob wedge.

Your question is a very good one - and there is a very simple answer. NEVER use your subjective thinking and/or feels in the early stages of making a swing change to judge what is actually happening in your swing. It is a recipe for disaster, the possibility for self-delusion is just too great. You need to video your swing and then look and see what is happening objectively.

If everyone on this forum followed this advice, probably half of the posts would disappear overnight and most of the flame wars would cease too.

You want open chest/s girdle at impact, and having that is part of having the right amount of forward shaft lean (although there are are factors that contribute). Model is about ten degrees open with a wedge and 30-35 with a driver.

[solarbear88]

Jim bought your ebook.

It is packed with good knowledge. Your arm swing illusion has really helped me.

Imho it could be the best golf book ever if only it had pictures. Just a suggestion if you ever rerelease it.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1446880726' post='12564888']
Jim bought your ebook.

It is packed with good knowledge. Your arm swing illusion has really helped me.

Imho it could be the best golf book ever if only it had pictures. Just a suggestion if you ever rerelease it.
[/quote]

Thanks! Always nice to hear about positive results. I am very proud of the book, but I agree - lots more pictures would have been ideal. The problem with that is that it would have amplified the scope and timeline of the project too a huge scale, and we wanted to get the information out there to the public as soon as possible. Basically we decided that folks who wanted more visual information could also buy the videos to supplement the info in the book.

[Andrew Morgan]

I agree with solarbear88 that the e-book could do with some pictures.

Balance Point Golf describe it as having "illustrations and photos" which is potentially misleading imo.

[ofortuna]

There are some photos at the end but I agree that the ebook doesn't function well as a stand-alone source of instruction without more. It looks like Jim is creating videos that are step by step covering the same material from the ebook and video is of course much better than pics. After reading the ebook a couple times, I use it more as a reference by using the search function on my reader.

[Kiwi2]

Jim has again been named in the Golf Digest Top Teachers in your State (2015-2016)

Oregon
1) Jerry Mowlds / Pumpkin Ridge G.C., North Plains
2) Bruce Furman / Langdon Farms G.C., Aurora
3) Christopher Smith / Pumpkin Ridge G.C., North Plains
[b]4) Jim Waldron / Balance Point G., Portland[/b]
5) Ed Fisher / Ed Fisher Academy Of G., Medford

[poops]

Jim - Do you have any overhead video clips (bird's eye view) of what the arms do during the backswing? A video from the target perspective might also be useful...

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='poops' timestamp='1447593230' post='12601242']
Jim - Do you have any overhead video clips (bird's eye view) of what the arms do during the backswing? A video from the target perspective might also be useful...
[/quote]

No - we dont have any overhead video, its a tough thing to achieve without building some sort of special scaffolding. You can find overhead photo sequences though that show the angle of lead arm to chest. Butch Harmon did a commercial a few years ago that was in super slow mo with the camera on the ground looking up at his chest in a bunker, its a good one for seeing the relationship of arms staying in front of chest and lead arm to right of mid-line until after impact.

[sernicson]

Hello, Is there any summary of this post or any way to see the main point without going through the 110 pages? thanks!

[Millbrook]

First 20 odd pages will set you up OK to understand what it's about.

[WayRight]

I've been following this topic, and watching Jim's video's on YT.

I've played around with the Jug McSpaden drill a little bit. This am I went to the range and hit balls using what I've learned through Jim.

I was hitting some really great balls.

I often find myself cocking the wrists simultaneously to the pushaway, and it seems like that gets me in trouble.

I wanted to say 'Thanks' to Jim, and let you know how much I appreciate your knowledge and time.

I'm in So Cal...I get up to Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA a couple times a year.
I will have to make a little road trip out of those trips and come down and see you.

I feel like you have increased (and simplified) my understanding of the golf swing dramatically. I'm only a couple years into golf...much of the swing seemed so complex, and confusing before I read/watched your stuff.

Again, thanks!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='WayRight' timestamp='1447789725' post='12611376']
I've been following this topic, and watching Jim's video's on YT.

I've played around with the Jug McSpaden drill a little bit. This am I went to the range and hit balls using what I've learned through Jim.

I was hitting some really great balls.

I often find myself cocking the wrists simultaneously to the pushaway, and it seems like that gets me in trouble.

I wanted to say 'Thanks' to Jim, and let you know how much I appreciate your knowledge and time.

I'm in So Cal...I get up to Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA a couple times a year.
I will have to make a little road trip out of those trips and come down and see you.

I feel like you have increased (and simplified) my understanding of the golf swing dramatically. I'm only a couple years into golf...much of the swing seemed so complex, and confusing before I read/watched your stuff.

Again, thanks!
[/quote]

Your welcome! And great to know that the ASi concept has helped you to breakthrough to better ballstriking.

I agree - the golf swing needs to made as simple as possible, without also "dumbing it down" to the point where it crosses the line into incorrect concepts.

In general, golf instruction has taken a wrong turn, in my opinion, in the last 15 years or so, into an overly technical scientific approach, and a lot of that information is only helpful for very advanced players, in any case.

The really big missing link, once you have started to see through the many 2D Illusions (the ASI being the really Big One), is the understanding of how the brain-mind/body best learns new movement patterns. This is the area where both traditional instruction and the technical approach are both missing the boat.

[flopshot99]

Update

[Jim Waldron]

I will be the guest on the popular golf podcast " Golfsmarter" next week, Thursday December 10, which will be broadcast live starting at 5PM west coast time. The topic will be the golf swing, my Great Shot! video instruction program, and related golf improvement subjects. This will be my eight appearance on the podcast but for the first time will be in live webcam/video format, so should be a lot fun!

I welcome wrx members to submit questions, you can PM me with any questions or topics you would like to see discussed on the podcast. Please include your name and location with your question, although it is not necessary to include your full name, ie "from Mike in Chicago" is fine.


Looks like the podcast will last about 75-90 minutes, maybe a little longer.

Fred Greene is the host.

Cheers,

Jim

[Jim Waldron]

Great Shot! video instruction series update: Part D will be up soon, (we had to delay the release due to some last minute editing/changes). This video will be about two hours and 15 minutes in total viewing time and topics include: more information on Setup - including our Three Postural Braces concept for better Balance and Stability in the golf swing and a section on rightward spine Tilt and weight distribution at Setup and how that affects Low Point/Angle of Attack at impact, Vision in the golf swing - where to focus your gaze during the swing (a few options that have proven to work well) and where not to focus, a long section devoted the Over the Top cures and more information on swing plane, a section on Connection in the golf swing which explores some of the many common mis-conceptions about connection, and how to sync up the arms with the pivot, some more Swing Map drills and several ballstriking drills

[flopshot99]

Phenominal

[4pillars]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1449246868' post='12680008']
I will be the guest on the popular golf podcast " Golfsmarter" next week, Thursday December 10, which will be broadcast live starting at 5PM west coast time. The topic will be the golf swing, my Great Shot! video instruction program, and related golf improvement subjects. This will be my eight appearance on the podcast but for the first time will be in live webcam/video format, so should be a lot fun!

I welcome wrx members to submit questions, you can PM me with any questions or topics you would like to see discussed on the podcast. Please include your name and location with your question, although it is not necessary to include your full name, ie "from Mike in Chicago" is fine.


Looks like the podcast will last about 75-90 minutes, maybe a little longer.

Fred Greene is the host.

Cheers,

Jim
[/quote]

I came to know of you through the earlier golfsmarter podcasts way before the ASI thread started and found then informative,and in fact.prompted me to signup for a paid subsciption to get the full podcasts of your talks..

However, I found Fred Greene painful.

If he only put into practice a fraction of what is discussed in his podcasts he would be an ace golfer by now, which he is not.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='4pillars' timestamp='1449417562' post='12686954']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1449246868' post='12680008']
I will be the guest on the popular golf podcast " Golfsmarter" next week, Thursday December 10, which will be broadcast live starting at 5PM west coast time. The topic will be the golf swing, my Great Shot! video instruction program, and related golf improvement subjects. This will be my eight appearance on the podcast but for the first time will be in live webcam/video format, so should be a lot fun!

I welcome wrx members to submit questions, you can PM me with any questions or topics you would like to see discussed on the podcast. Please include your name and location with your question, although it is not necessary to include your full name, ie "from Mike in Chicago" is fine.


Looks like the podcast will last about 75-90 minutes, maybe a little longer.

Fred Greene is the host.

Cheers,

Jim
[/quote]

I came to know of you through the earlier golfsmarter podcasts way before the ASI thread started and found then informative,and in fact.prompted me to signup for a paid subsciption to get the full podcasts of your talks..

However, I found Fred Greene painful.

If he only put into practice a fraction of what is discussed in his podcasts he would be an ace golfer by now, which he is not.
[/quote]

Thanks for that feedback!

Fred is a good guy, I think he is much more interested in discussing fascinating golf subjects than actually taking the time to work on his game enough to make a real difference. He has been pretty open about the fact that for him personally, he has no real interest in the mechanical side of improving his game, only the mental side.

His podcast was one of the first devoted to golf improvement, and he has had a lot of great instructors on as guests.

I think we will blend the discussion around both the mechanics of the swing model that i teach and also the mental side of how to make swing changes, how to learn and how to practice effectively. I am not a fan of the current high tech trend in golf instruction, I think it is really mostly marketing and jockeying for market share by instructors, and I really think in the next few years we are going to see a wholesale rejection by a lot of players of that method, since the results really dont live up to the hype.

We need instructors to focus much more on the Neuroscience behind how the brain-mind learns motor skills, that is going to be the real revolution in golf instruction.

[Jim Waldron]

Here is the link to tomorrows GolfSmarter live video podcast, 5PM west coast time:[url="https://blab.im/fred-greene-the-arm-swing-illusion-with-jimwaldrongolf"]https://blab.im/fred-greene-the-arm-swing-illusion-with-jimwaldrongolf[/url]

It is live and interactive, folks will be able to ask questions via Twitter.

You can also submit questions to me directly using the PM.

Should be a fun experience - I have done many podcasts in the past, but never live.

We will start off discussing my arm swing illusion concept and then see where the discussion leads - likely about golf swing fundamentals and how to learn and how to practice effectively.

[ofortuna]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1449703946' post='12700670']
Here is the link to tomorrows GolfSmarter live video podcast, 5PM west coast time:[url="https://blab.im/fred-greene-the-arm-swing-illusion-with-jimwaldrongolf"]https://blab.im/fred...-jimwaldrongolf[/url]

It is live and interactive, folks will be able to ask questions via Twitter.

You can also submit questions to me directly using the PM.

Should be a fun experience - I have done many podcasts in the past, but never live.

We will start off discussing my arm swing illusion concept and then see where the discussion leads - likely about golf swing fundamentals and how to learn and how to practice effectively.
[/quote]

Looking forward to watching this. I hope I don't have any problems viewing this from my mobile.

[Jim Waldron]

We had some technical issues at the start with my microphone so started five minutes later than scheduled, and some folks were not able to log in, but I think once Blab platform - which is pretty new - works the bugs out and folks get used to using it, it will turn out to be a very useful way for people to talk to each other in real time. You can actually have a group of up to six persons on screen at the same time.

The discussion ended up being more about how to make swing changes - the mental side of how to learn and practice - than anything technical on the golf swing, which is not surprising, since Fred is much more interested in the mental aspects than the mechanical.

I will post a link to the podcast next week once it goes up.