The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy

[starsail85]

Jim

Would you say misapplication and misunderstanding the Moves detailed in your model swing eg the push away move could lead to laying the club off at the top of the swing ?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1436391020' post='11912384']
Jim

Would you say misapplication and misunderstanding the Moves detailed in your model swing eg the push away move could lead to laying the club off at the top of the swing ?
[/quote]

If you do the move properly, then - no, not a chance. Of course any human being can form the wrong understanding and thus do
the moves the wrong way. That is always a potential issue when engaging in self-directed learning. Which is why I am always telling you guys to take a lesson!

[starsail85]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436392002' post='11912474']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1436391020' post='11912384']
Jim

Would you say misapplication and misunderstanding the Moves detailed in your model swing eg the push away move could lead to laying the club off at the top of the swing ?
[/quote]

If you do the move properly, then - no, not a chance. Of course any human being can form the wrong understanding and thus do
the moves the wrong way. That is always a potential issue when engaging in self-directed learning. Which is why I am always telling you guys to take a lesson!
[/quote]

I intended to mean that I may have misunderstood the move, not that the move caused what I mention

I have a slight problem with the Atlantic Ocean regarding lessons , I know remote lessons are an option but I think in person lessons are a lot better as my interpretation often leads me down the wrong path !

[JW223]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436390282' post='11912314']
If you lack a strong core/back - you can go into early extension much more easily to save your back - and shank city is the result.[/quote]

Jim, when you mention a strong back, are you referring to the QL muscles mainly?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='JW223' timestamp='1436393483' post='11912618']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436390282' post='11912314']
If you lack a strong core/back - you can go into early extension much more easily to save your back - and shank city is the result.[/quote]

Jim, when you mention a strong back, are you referring to the QL muscles mainly?
[/quote]

No - QL is mainly for side bending or tilting. Multifidous muscles along the spine, are stablizers. Also belly muscles and
glutes.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1436392341' post='11912500']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436392002' post='11912474']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1436391020' post='11912384']
Jim

Would you say misapplication and misunderstanding the Moves detailed in your model swing eg the push away move could lead to laying the club off at the top of the swing ?
[/quote]

If you do the move properly, then - no, not a chance. Of course any human being can form the wrong understanding and thus do
the moves the wrong way. That is always a potential issue when engaging in self-directed learning. Which is why I am always telling you guys to take a lesson!
[/quote]

I intended to mean that I may have misunderstood the move, not that the move caused what I mention

I have a slight problem with the Atlantic Ocean regarding lessons , I know remote lessons are an option but I think in person lessons are a lot better as my interpretation often leads me down the wrong path !
[/quote]


For sure in person is the best, but remote lessons are far, far more effective than trying to figure it all by yourself.

The student misunderstanding the swing moves is the norm when first taking a lesson. The main task of a good teacher is to
dispel those mis-perceptions and illusions.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436409899' post='11914198']
For sure in person is the best, but remote lessons are far, far more effective than trying to figure it all by yourself.

The student misunderstanding the swing moves is the norm when first taking a lesson. The main task of a good teacher is to
dispel those mis-perceptions and illusions.
[/quote]

Jim,

How does the remote lesson work? Is it a one way video that the student watches you after they send you a video? Is it via Skype or some other preferred app?

If cost were an issue and there could only be one choice, would you suggest the Arm Swing Illusion video over a remote lesson or vice versa?

[flopshot99]

Jim..updates for next video pls

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1436410499' post='11914252']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436409899' post='11914198']
For sure in person is the best, but remote lessons are far, far more effective than trying to figure it all by yourself.

The student misunderstanding the swing moves is the norm when first taking a lesson. The main task of a good teacher is to
dispel those mis-perceptions and illusions.
[/quote]

Jim,

How does the remote lesson work? Is it a one way video that the student watches you after they send you a video? Is it via Skype or some other preferred app?

If cost were an issue and there could only be one choice, would you suggest the Arm Swing Illusion video over a remote lesson or vice versa?
[/quote]

It is a live real-time lesson with two way Skype webcam. I watch and analyze the students swing video before we meet on Skype webcam and then the actual lesson is a discussion of my conclusions and the fixes and practice plan for the student to follow. I can demo a drill while you watch me, then you can do the drill and I can watch you and give you feedback. Much, much more effective than "after the fact" line drawing on a video in an email with no actual interaction between teacher and student. The whole essence of learning or achieving "light bulb moments" starts with that personal interaction.

Cost is $88 hour, minimum is 45 minutes for $65.

Hard to say whether the ASI video or a lesson would be best. Pretty equal I think in value. I say that because I really think the ASI video is going to make a big impact on anyone who watches it. Re-programming your subconscious swing map is a really Big Deal if you want to even come close to your potential in ballstriking.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='flopshot99' timestamp='1436411279' post='11914326']
Jim..updates for next video pls
[/quote]

I think ASI video will be up on our site by Saturday at earliest and Tuesday of next week at latest.

Module One Part B around July 20, Part C July 28.

[kristan]

So I haven't read the whole thread, but was intrigued by the word "illusion". So I found some YouTube videos. I learn golf by watching others and reading stuff like Pelz. So I went to the course today to play my round and a couple thoughts stuck with me. 1) what the arms REALLY do in the swing and 2) you have to reach out your arms on your backswing instead of keeping them "attached to my body" (that's my term anyway).

Results: only missed 2 fairways (because they rolled through from hitting it too far on my normal line) and missed 4 GIR. 3 of them were on the fringe and the other was just a dumb swing. Awesome results. Fixed my too far inside issue I've had for years.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='kristan' timestamp='1436499513' post='11921228']
So I haven't read the whole thread, but was intrigued by the word "illusion". So I found some YouTube videos. I learn golf by watching others and reading stuff like Pelz. So I went to the course today to play my round and a couple thoughts stuck with me. 1) what the arms REALLY do in the swing and 2) you have to reach out your arms on your backswing instead of keeping them "attached to my body" (that's my term anyway).

Results: only missed 2 fairways (because they rolled through from hitting it too far on my normal line) and missed 4 GIR. 3 of them were on the fringe and the other was just a dumb swing. Awesome results. Fixed my too far inside issue I've had for years.
[/quote]

Thanks for your feedback! And great to learn the ASI concept has helped you so much. Yes, the concept of "connection" is one of the most mis-understood in golf, in my opinion. I cover this issue in depth in the ASI video that will be released in the next two days. Many of my new students suffer from the idea that the upper arms stay on the body during the whole swing.
Not true! Hogan is often credited with that idea, and in this last interview with Golf Digest, emphatically stated that it was a false concept. You need to create some space between the upper arms and the chest during the backswing. Some of this is from pivot momentum and some from the slight "pushaway" of the arms. The upper arms then re-connect to the body during Transition, and stay connected and with the hands to the right of body mid-line until just after impact, when pivot momentum and clubhead momentum will pull them across mid-line, what I call "connection in motion" (meaning the upper arms are brushing against the chest as they are being moved) and then dis-connection occurs after followthrough to the Finish.

[hurst66]

Jim
Is there any info on Training aids in any of the modules.And if so, what training aids are required for what modules.

Thanks

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='hurst66' timestamp='1436725895' post='11934416']
Jim
Is there any info on Training aids in any of the modules.And if so, what training aids are required for what modules.

Thanks
[/quote]

The only "required" aid is a mirror. But I recommend the Swingyde for wrist mechanics, the Figure 8 strap for sideways Triangle Pressure, a plane board made out of a sheet of plywood (easy to make yourself), and a few older aids that are no longer made but can sometimes be found on ebay.

[fmzip]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1436414793' post='11914570'] [quote name='flopshot99' timestamp='1436411279' post='11914326'] Jim..updates for next video pls [/quote] I think ASI video will be up on our site by Saturday at earliest and Tuesday of next week at latest. [/quote]

Jim,

Will the video be released today as mentioned?

[ofortuna]

I'm looking forward to seeing you go into more depth on the transition as touched upon on module A... getting from the top of the backswing back down to the club shaft plane using just your pivot. I've been on my half plane board trying to do this move with:[list=1]
[*]Slight forward move of tailbone keeping upper body back
[*]Slight bending down the of right shoulder (tilt switch)
[*]Slight unwinding of the pivot
[/list]
It physically gets me down to the top of the half plane board (back on the original shaft plane) but it feels odd for two reasons. A) my right shoulder feels ridiculously low B) the clubhead feels extremely open. It feels like I need a rapid turning of my forearms to get to P6 with a square clubface from here.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1436853460' post='11944366']
I'm looking forward to seeing you go into more depth on the transition as touched upon on module A... getting from the top of the backswing back down to the club shaft plane using just your pivot. I've been on my half plane board trying to do this move with:[list=1]
[*]Slight forward move of tailbone keeping upper body back
[*]Slight bending down the of right shoulder (tilt switch)
[*]Slight unwinding of the pivot
[/list]
It physically gets me down to the top of the half plane board (back on the original shaft plane) but it feels odd for two reasons. A) my right shoulder feels ridiculously low B) the clubhead feels extremely open. It feels like I need a rapid turning of my forearms to get to P6 with a square clubface from here.

Lever Illusion makes you think that, assuming you are in fact in a proper P6 position, shaft over toe line, toe up, 30-45 degree arm lag angle. Best to intend for 20% of face squaring from forearm rotation and 80% from pivot and tilt. Your feeling is commonly reported. It is why the Hit Impulse is so strong. A small center of pivot arc of rotation makes the clubhead move in a much bigger arc. I cover this in depth in the new ASI video.
[/quote]

[Kiwi2]

The Arm Swing Illusion video is now available for download.

Here is a trailer for the video.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUy5KN8AYM&feature=youtu.be[/media]

[4pillars]

Looks good but I am going to wait until the talk on practicing is released.

[EdStraker]

Will a package deal be considered in the future as you add more modules if multiple videos are purchased at the same time?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='EdStraker' timestamp='1437088996' post='11962944']
Will a package deal be considered in the future as you add more modules if multiple videos are purchased at the same time?
[/quote]

Yes. We will start to bundle them soon, as we get a few more up for sale.

[Jim Waldron]

Yeah, seems we have an issue with the HD viewing quality v dvd quality check out box. Only allows for dvd. I will have my tech guy work on the fix in the morning.

I had my tech guy take the ASI video down for tonight until we get that bug fixed. Should be back up again tomorrow. Sorry for the delay but the automated system is having some issues, and we need to get it working properly.

[flopshot99]

Link to new video

[fmzip]

[quote name='flopshot99' timestamp='1437100730' post='11963992']
Link to new video
[/quote]

http://www.balancepointgolf.com/index.php/pro-shop/golf-videos

[ofortuna]

That looks like the one I already have.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='ofortuna' timestamp='1437104705' post='11964280']
That looks like the one I already have.
[/quote]

Right - as I wrote in my last post, we have had a few bugs in the automated system that started happening this evening, so I have asked my tech guy to take down the ASI video from our site until we have fixed those issues. The Six Laws video ordering seems to be working fine, so that video is still available for purchase. ASI video download should be up and running bug-free by sometime tomorrow. Thanks for your patience.

Jim

[Jim Waldron]

ASI video is back up and is working fine. The ordering system had a software update that had a bug in it, now fixed. Thanks for your patience!

Jim

[fmzip]

Jim,

I am really finding the Arm Swing Illusion Video to be enlightening.

I am up to the point of the drills, the waiter tray one is very good as it really gives me instant feedback on that right arm wandering "mysteriously" on its own. The shaped drill is exactly what I need to learn to hit consistent crisp wedges.

Good work on the video, it was definitely worth the wait

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='fmzip' timestamp='1437186457' post='11970290']
Jim,

I am really finding the Arm Swing Illusion Video to be enlightening.

I am up to the point of the drills, the waiter tray one is very good as it really gives me instant feedback on that right arm wandering "mysteriously" on its own. The shaped drill is exactly what I need to learn to hit consistent crisp wedges.

Good work on the video, it was definitely worth the wait
[/quote]

Thanks! I am going to make a long post about the ASI video, explain a bit more of the details behind it, just too exhausted tonight after ten hours of teaching in 90 degree heat. Maybe tomorrow night. I will just say for now that this ASI video is the best product I have ever put out, it turned out to be much, much better than I had expected. I think anyone who watches it with a truly open and inquiring mind will walk away with a totally new understanding of the golf swing.

[fmzip]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Just simply a quick watch this morning with the arms pushing out while rotating gave me enough of a visual to reinforces what I already read in this thread. Took it to the range today and hit some pure iron irons with the least amount of wasted motion I've ever felt in a golf swing. Looking forward to doing the exercises to ingrain the feel