The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[F171615]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398361772' post='9161663']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1398360634' post='9161509']
Cue up that fantastic 11 min YouTube video of James Harden playing defense - you shouldn't be allowed on the NBA 1st team if you are literally the worst defender in the league.
[/quote]

definitely! I find it hard to believe people think he's 1st or 2nd team all-nba when you consider his severe lack of defensive ability/talent/etc...
[/quote]

With Harden I don't think it's a lack of ability or talent that prevents him from playing defense. He just seems apathetic to playing defense. I presume a large contributing factor to this is b/c of how much is required from him on the offensive side of the ball - but I would think he's in good enough shape to at least show some interest in playing solid defense at times.

[tocino]

[quote name='F171615' timestamp='1398363332' post='9161885']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398361772' post='9161663']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1398360634' post='9161509']
Cue up that fantastic 11 min YouTube video of James Harden playing defense - you shouldn't be allowed on the NBA 1st team if you are literally the worst defender in the league.
[/quote]

definitely! I find it hard to believe people think he's 1st or 2nd team all-nba when you consider his severe lack of defensive ability/talent/etc...
[/quote]

With Harden I don't think it's a lack of ability or talent that prevents him from playing defense. He just seems apathetic to playing defense. I presume a large contributing factor to this is b/c of how much is required from him on the offensive side of the ball - but I would think he's in good enough shape to at least show some interest in playing solid defense at times.
[/quote]

he probably is in good enough shape. I think he would win a lot of people over more if he at least tried to get in someone's way let alone play solid defense. It seems like he tries to gamble on a steal and that's about it... totally disinterested in moving his feet, positioning, paying attention to his man, etc... you know, fundamental stuff you usually learn on your JYC team in elementary school =P

[gambit]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398364537' post='9162095']
[quote name='F171615' timestamp='1398363332' post='9161885']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398361772' post='9161663']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1398360634' post='9161509']
Cue up that fantastic 11 min YouTube video of James Harden playing defense - you shouldn't be allowed on the NBA 1st team if you are literally the worst defender in the league.
[/quote]

definitely! I find it hard to believe people think he's 1st or 2nd team all-nba when you consider his severe lack of defensive ability/talent/etc...
[/quote]

With Harden I don't think it's a lack of ability or talent that prevents him from playing defense. He just seems apathetic to playing defense. I presume a large contributing factor to this is b/c of how much is required from him on the offensive side of the ball - but I would think he's in good enough shape to at least show some interest in playing solid defense at times.
[/quote]

he probably is in good enough shape. I think he would win a lot of people over more if he at least tried to get in someone's way let alone play solid defense. It seems like he tries to gamble on a steal and that's about it... totally disinterested in moving his feet, positioning, paying attention to his man, etc... you know, fundamental stuff you usually learn on your JYC team in elementary school =P
[/quote]

Harden is Melo with a beard.

On a side note...got 2 tix for the Dubs game if anyone is interested.

[somaplr]

As my college coach used to say defense is about "want to" - all it is effort. Granted some ahtletes aren't blessed with the strength, athletic ability or lateral quickness to be elite defenders, but with Harden it's all about effort.

[MtlJeff]

SportsVU has tracked it statistically. I believe Harden moves slower on defense then any other backcourt player in the league. Or maybe it was any other 2 guard. But regardless, that still speaks for itself. He just doesn't care about playing defense, even despite the fact that he gets called out for it now

Look, not to re-hash everything again. But Harden turned down 4 years 45 million to stay in OKC and play with Ibaka/Westbrook/Durant. That's a [i]lot [/i]of money to play on a superteam, for your first non-rookie contract

Why are we so certain he's a winner? That he cares about winning more then "getting his"? Maybe he just wanted to come to Houston and put up 25ppg with his max deal

Anyway, he's young, there's plenty of time to win this series and beyond. But i've said for a while, guys who don't try on defense don't win titles

[MtlJeff]

You know what else i find interesting, how come no one ever mentions Washington as a Carmelo destination? I mean if he really cares about winning?

Their payroll is only 45M commited next year. They could probably resign Gortat for 8-9M, or let him go and replace him with a league average guy

They could afford Carmelo, and it would make sense for them to sign him. They are a solid defense.

They could realistically, under the salary cap, throw out Wall/Beal/Carmelo/Nene/free agent center

isn't that better then Chicago?

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1398367550' post='9162537']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398364537' post='9162095']
[quote name='F171615' timestamp='1398363332' post='9161885']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1398361772' post='9161663']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1398360634' post='9161509']
Cue up that fantastic 11 min YouTube video of James Harden playing defense - you shouldn't be allowed on the NBA 1st team if you are literally the worst defender in the league.
[/quote]

definitely! I find it hard to believe people think he's 1st or 2nd team all-nba when you consider his severe lack of defensive ability/talent/etc...
[/quote]

With Harden I don't think it's a lack of ability or talent that prevents him from playing defense. He just seems apathetic to playing defense. I presume a large contributing factor to this is b/c of how much is required from him on the offensive side of the ball - but I would think he's in good enough shape to at least show some interest in playing solid defense at times.
[/quote]

he probably is in good enough shape. I think he would win a lot of people over more if he at least tried to get in someone's way let alone play solid defense. It seems like he tries to gamble on a steal and that's about it... totally disinterested in moving his feet, positioning, paying attention to his man, etc... you know, fundamental stuff you usually learn on your JYC team in elementary school =P
[/quote]

Harden is Melo with a beard.

On a side note...got 2 tix for the Dubs game if anyone is interested.
[/quote]

Melo is a good defender when he wants to be. He is just a bit lazy.

[MtlJeff]

^^^ the other thing with Melo is he is a very above average rebounder for his position. So at least you get that even if his defense is average

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1398383810' post='9164415']
You know what else i find interesting, how come no one ever mentions Washington as a Carmelo destination? I mean if he really cares about winning?

Their payroll is only 45M commited next year. They could probably resign Gortat for 8-9M, or let him go and replace him with a league average guy

They could afford Carmelo, and it would make sense for them to sign him. They are a solid defense.

They could realistically, under the salary cap, throw out Wall/Beal/Carmelo/Nene/free agent center

isn't that better then Chicago?
[/quote]

Nope. Rose,Butler,Melo,Mirotic,Noah assuming Rose can come back and be a All Star Level PG again which I Think he can. Not MVP Level.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1398383922' post='9164435']
^^^ the other thing with Melo is he is a very above average rebounder for his position. So at least you get that even if his defense is average
[/quote]

Also I think Melo lead the league this year in Minutes Per Game.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1398384066' post='9164457']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1398383810' post='9164415']
You know what else i find interesting, how come no one ever mentions Washington as a Carmelo destination? I mean if he really cares about winning?

Their payroll is only 45M commited next year. They could probably resign Gortat for 8-9M, or let him go and replace him with a league average guy

They could afford Carmelo, and it would make sense for them to sign him. They are a solid defense.

They could realistically, under the salary cap, throw out Wall/Beal/Carmelo/Nene/free agent center

isn't that better then Chicago?
[/quote]

Nope. Rose,Butler,Melo,Mirotic,Noah assuming Rose can come back and be a All Star Level PG again which I Think he can. Not MVP Level.
[/quote]

That's obviously a good team, but if Washington soundly beats Chicago this year i don't know. I wouldn't want to hitch my wagon to Derrick Rose

but i'm not denying the Bulls are a good spot too

I just like the Wizards. As a Russell Westbrook stalker, i'm slowly gravitating towards John Wall in case Westbrook betrays me. They are very similar players. I'm almost ready to start replying in ALL CAPS if anyone says Wall can't shoot

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1398384559' post='9164505']
[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1398384066' post='9164457']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1398383810' post='9164415']
You know what else i find interesting, how come no one ever mentions Washington as a Carmelo destination? I mean if he really cares about winning?

Their payroll is only 45M commited next year. They could probably resign Gortat for 8-9M, or let him go and replace him with a league average guy

They could afford Carmelo, and it would make sense for them to sign him. They are a solid defense.

They could realistically, under the salary cap, throw out Wall/Beal/Carmelo/Nene/free agent center

isn't that better then Chicago?
[/quote]

Nope. Rose,Butler,Melo,Mirotic,Noah assuming Rose can come back and be a All Star Level PG again which I Think he can. Not MVP Level.
[/quote]

That's obviously a good team, but if Washington soundly beats Chicago this year i don't know. I wouldn't want to hitch my wagon to Derrick Rose

but i'm not denying the Bulls are a good spot too

I just like the Wizards. As a Russell Westbrook stalker, i'm slowly gravitating towards John Wall in case Westbrook betrays me. They are very similar players. I'm almost ready to start replying in ALL CAPS if anyone says Wall can't shoot
[/quote]

Poor Westbrook

[baseballfrk8998]

Why would anyone go to Chicago with the hopes of playing with Rose? That just defies all logic.

[somaplr]

Well Vogel and Brooks seats are getting hotter by the day

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1398397759' post='9166353']
Well Vogel and Brooks seats are getting hotter by the day
[/quote]

If those guys get s*** canned and D'antoni doesn't I will have some serious thinking to do with where my loyalties lie.

[scratchswinger]

OKC is going to have a very long off season if they get knocked in the first round, with all that talent and only one sniff at a title, changes will have to come. With that said I could see them winning this series.

[scratchswinger]

That was some great D by CP3 at the end of the game, too bad the Clips can't play any D.

[somaplr]

If you mean great D and by getting away with a foul then sure lol

It wasn't a great shot: at home, can tie the game with a two...but it was a missed call. They lost the game way way before that play but you can't touch a shooters elbow.

[scratchswinger]

You can argue that Paul's hands were on Stephs hip/body but no elbow was touched. It would have been a VERY hard foul to call at the end of a game. Looked like contested D to me. Besides Steph hitting those two big threes the Clippers had plenty of solid stops.

Had their D gotten better this season? How do they look at a whole?

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1398431164' post='9167743']You can argue that Paul's hands were on Stephs hip/body but no elbow was touched. It would have been a VERY hard foul to call at the end of a game. Looked like contested D to me. Besides Steph hitting those two big threes the Clippers had plenty of solid stops.

Had their D gotten better this season? How do they look at a whole?[/quote]

A foul is a foul no matter when it happens in the game and that was clearly a foul. It's pretty evident that he got him as you can see on the replay.

With that being said, I think Curry hurts himself in those situations because of how many times he falls down when his shots are contested. He flopped on the shot he hit to tie it up. He's not doing himself any favors there.

[somaplr]

Yeah the play before that didn't help. He may/may not hit his elbow, it's hard to tell. But it should have been called - no question.


[url="http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/nba-playoffs-clippers-warriors-chris-paul-stephen-curry-last-shot-foul/"]http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/nba-playoffs-clippers-warriors-chris-paul-stephen-curry-last-shot-foul/[/url]

The telecast view it looked a little innocent - the sea level view is a blatant forearm shiver quasi-nut shot. The second GIF.

[scratchswinger]

Early in the game it's called 9/10, final shot it's 50/50 especially on a HOM player.

[gambit]

The call that was even worse was the push off Griffin gave Green and they called it Green for his 6th and Griffin hits 2.

Can someone tell Klay that when your struggling to make shots instead of taking more 3s and fadeaways go and post up or go to the bucket. Reddick, Paul, Crawford, Collison...none of them are big enough to stop Klay if he posts them up. I just don't get it.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1398399241' post='9166491']
OKC is going to have a very long off season if they get knocked in the first round, with all that talent and only one sniff at a title, changes will have to come. With that said I could see them winning this series.
[/quote]

Scott Brooks is likely a goner if they lose in either round 1 or 2. And at this point that probably makes sense. Going into the postseason there was a lot of talk that Memphis would know all of OKC's plays, and make them adjust. They haven't really adjusted. Other then some lineup moves that Zach Lowe acknowledged today, which have been OK, the offensive movements are basically the same.

Some of the fault lies with Westbrook, less of it lies with Durant shooting worse then usual. But they need more then 5 shots from Caron Butler, they need more then 10 shots from Serge Ibaka who shot 60% the other day, and is one of the best midrange shooters in the league. They need more then 3/19 from Reggie Jackson

A good coach will generate sets to get quick pops for these guys, so that Westbrook and Durant don't have to shoot 28 times when their shot is off.

You look at what Dallas has done with Monta Ellis. A good coach can hopefully work with Russell a bit in that regard too.

[MtlJeff]

couple of big games tonight with teams down 2-0. Houston is really in a hole....Portland won't be an easy place to play....those fans are crazy!

Can Aldridge go for 40 on 3 nights in a row!

[TheGameChanger]

Mike Dunleavy Jnr to the rescue

[TheGameChanger]

Daniels to the Rescue. Great Idea by McHale.

[scratchswinger]

Wow I just saw that the Lakers are leaning towards keeping D'Antoni, what is the thought process with that? Basically 3 HOF players said that they don't want to play for him. He completely underachieved last year, many think Kobe was more the coach and this year he lead the Lakers to one of the worst seasons in like 50 years. It's not like his resume is littered with championships.... Is it just because of lack of options? I honestly don't understand why they would even consider retaining him when the best players have no interest in playing for him.

[TheGameChanger]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1398520049' post='9174889']
Wow I just saw that the Lakers are leaning towards keeping D'Antoni, what is the thought process with that? Basically 3 HOF players said that they don't want to play for him. He completely underachieved last year, many think Kobe was more the coach and this year he lead the Lakers to one of the worst seasons in like 50 years. It's not like his resume is littered with championships.... Is it just because of lack of options? I honestly don't understand why they would even consider retaining him when the best players have no interest in playing for him.
[/quote]

Jim Buss Runs the show. I've read people want Jeanie Buss to takeover running the team. I'm still shocked Phil is running basketball operations in New York. However I've got doubts that lasts long.

[scratchswinger]

Jim has a deadline- don't even get me started on Phil. That situation makes me want to break something.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24533828/lakers-owner-jim-buss-says-hell-step-down-if-lakers-dont-return-to-contender-status