Junior Swing

At what age do juniors start to have a “professional” looking swing? Like having a fairly correct sequence, lagging the club, forward shaft lean, hitting down on the ball... versus casting, scooping, pinning lead arm to the chest, jumping at impact...

Another way to put it is when do they swing like the videos iteachgolf posts on IG? I know they’re not “perfect” swings, but still a heck lot better than 6-7 year olds can do.

Thanks

Plenty of kids in the 8/9/10 bracket with some pretty solid looking swings with great fundamentals. I've noticed with my boy whos just turned 8 that hes got a lot stronger over the last 3/4 months and his control of the club has got much better.

Looking at some old videos of my son when he was 6 and 7, he has basically the same swing then as he does today at 11.

I'm not sure if it's an age thing so much as getting the proper instruction/training?

Depends on instruction. My son has been working with the same guy for 2 1/2 years so he never developed bad habits. He also built his swing piece by piece very carefully. This probably meant my son lagged on certain performance possibilities as a 7-9 year old but I really don't care. He never developed ugly habits to compensate for youth like you see many younger kids who are using very poor fundamentals to maximize distance. I am not saying my son's swing is perfect by any means; however, it is fundamentally more grounded than most kids his age (10).

Also as @cellywratt says you see a lot more fundamental swings once kids hit growth spurts around 9-10. Your son is 6 if I recall, you won't see a ton of correct swings at that age, just doesn't happen.

Looking back at my kids The basic swing is there from day 1. she had a very developed swing from the very first time she picked up a club. You either have a very good swing or you don’t you can’t just learn it. Those with bad swings end up having to seek out teachers who correct it. You can still end up with a decent swing but it will never be the same as those with natural swings.

People also equate good swings with low scores. A good swing natural swing means potential not how low you will score that takes work and time.

As a parent you need to find out what swing your kid has before you seek out an instructor. Most instructors have no clue on how to work with a kid with a natural swing. The will actually cause more harm then good messing with it. very small percentage have natural swings in fact it from what been told it is shockingly low number.

If you have a kid with a natural swing first off you almost certainly know they do and you find a lot of very good instructors who are well known will in fact be very receptive to teaching your kid and will probably have a long talk about your kid and there future.

I am sorry but I hate this take.

"You can still end up with a decent swing but it will never be the same as those with natural swings."

It is just not true, simple as that. "Sorry kids who don't have perfect swings bequeathed upon them by fate, the best you can do is get to be decent." Give me a break.

It has to do with strength.

everyone has unique swing some kids look like they had years of lessons the first time they hit a ball. If a kid has to learn a swing the have a much harder time. Most coaches are idiots and think they have to teach their style of swing.

A good number of PGA pro’s have a natural swing and always had it too. Most parents of junior golfers want to believe golfers are taught and there is no such thing as natural swing with with speed and consistency. Those things can not be taught you either have a very consistent swing or or don’t.

The vast majority of what you just said is complete utter foolishness. Irregardless it doesn't defend what you said earlier that the best a kid can do through hard work is a "decent swing".

"Speed and consistency .... can not be taught"

You are seriously spouting complete foolishness. Please stop.

if you talk to anyone and I mean anyone who has taught and gives advice to PGA or LPGA players and even college coaches they all tell you the same thing. They can teach anything else but they can’t teach speed and consistency that will give reliable distance.

if you don’t have speed and a repeatable swing your not going to be wining majors. You can still be good golfer even get into college but will never be able break par on regular basis. Go to any pga event and see who is winning they all have things in common that wasn’t taught by anyone.

Complete and utter nonsense no matter how much you want to keep spouting it. Consistency is literally gained over repetitive practice and muscle memory. Speed can be natural but can also be taught and developed.

Not even going to try to legitimize the rest of your argument as it is completely ridiculous.

Have you ever talk to someone that actually teaches someone that won a major PGA event???? I have and that why I am saying what I am saying. If what you said was true you would see random people all the time. Winning pga events and taking home millions. Lots of good golfers don’t want to believe natural talent matters.

No one is saying natural talent doesn't matter. You are saying if you are not naturally incredibly gifted the best you can do is be "decent". Your words. You are equating that hard work is meaningless when it comes to producing consistency or speed which is a scientifically and experimentally proven falsehood. I get what you are trying to say but you are completely destroying any chance to make your point logically with hyperbolic statements that are completely incorrect.

The people who win majors all had a good swing the moment they picked up a club. If you have to learn a new swing the chances of being the top 100 in the world is very very small. A lot top amateur don’t have it and it why they never make it moving on when it comes to make money. A few top amateurs based on what I seen and been told don’t have it. I will not name names but basically the parents don’t accept reality and known to treat the kid bad. The kid is very accomplished player but I have been told feel and distance off the tee are a major issue. The kid will probably turn pro instead of going to college and end up with hardly anything to show for it.

Good to know you have analyzed every major winner in history and found out they all excelled the moment they picked up the club with a good swing. Do you not see how you are making grandiose statements that are indefensible? Either way, I am throwing in the towel on this conversation as it is going no where. Nothing is developed to the elite level, it is all the God-given lottery system!

Last time I checked, Tiger has changed his swing 3 times since turning pro (I think. It was at least two.), and has one a major with each swing. The 3 changes weren't his natural swing, he learned it. Jordan Spieth tried to get longer and hasn't won since.

I have talked to @iteachgolf on the forums and he says that all teachers can teach distance. He has stated it in these forums.

College coaches, in most cases, don't teach swing. They leave that to someone else.

Phil Mickleson has increased his club head speed the past two years, hasn't worked out for him in the win column. In fact, he has increased it a lot using the super speeds. Ryan Palmer and Phil are both longer now than they were 10 years ago.

I am honestly just here eating popcorn and waiting for the next response. I tend to agree with Blocton here. I don't even know what a natural swing is or means. I saw a kid swing naturally once. It was the most awkward thing I had ever seen and was naturally bad.

You can save your popcorn. Can't have a debate any more with Tiger, who bases everything around hyperbole and absolutes. Boggles my mind. I suppose according to his logic any kid in any sport who is not immediately incredible should give up and try something else since the best they can hope to be is "decent".

Ok cool thanks, I hope strength is the major factor in having a decent swing. My kid is 7 now, we’ll see what happens next year...

I have another son (3 years old) and it’s very obvious he has a “ better natural swing” than the older one. But still, I’m not entirely convinced that you must have it to make it to the top.

Golf doesn't seem that different than any other competitive endeavor: those with exceptional talent + passion/hard work will beat everyone else

That escalated quickly!

In my opinion the swing is learned and earned, not gifted. Some natural talent will make the learning process easier (which is why some kids are freaks at 5/6) but with good instruction, patience and a kid who enjoys the game the world is their oyster. I'm also a firm believer in getting kids good instruction as early as they can handle it, it makes the overall process easier. I've been a coach for a number of years in other sports (mostly cricket and rugby) for kids from 2-10 years old and i have always found it infinitely easier to teach basic fundamentals to a 4/5 year old who's just starting out vs a 9/10 year old. They may not have the full understanding you can get with an older kid but their muscle memory and lack of bad habits sure makes up for it.

it Okay your skirting around the subject and just trying to change the subject so not much use in debating with you. You still saying that you can take any kid with horrible swing and make him great. That is just plain crazy talk. you are also buying into the instructor argument they own your kids swing. You should look at what Alexa Pano’s dad Rick Pano thinks about instructors they recently had to switch.It very hard to find a instructor who doesn’t want to mess with things.

You really don’t know what your talking about. If you want facts I will pm you and let you know more details I prefer not to share on a public forum.

Welcome to the junior forum, where topics go off in about 3 posts and people start “debating” by the 6th lol.

Still looking where I said you could take any kid with a horrible swing and make him great....I will be looking for awhile.

If your kids swing so natural then post it. Not even TW swing was natural the first time he worked his tail off. Then changed his swing and rebuilt it numerous times. Just because you pay a coach $200 doesn't make them right, its not LPGA or bust. For the right price i will tell you whatever you want to hear. I guess any kid who can't break 80 should just give up then.

I don't think young juniors ever develop a 'pro' swing. They all have something a bit funky going on. Of course some look a lot better than others, but they all have some flaws. As stated above, strength is a huge factor in hitting certain positions in the swing. I think you will see that your son's swing improves every year as he gets stronger and has some proper instruction. In our case, I feel like my son had a better swing as a 7 yr old than he does today at 9.

Juniors jump because of lack of strength to generate the club head speed. A lot of how juniors swing the club and the awkwardness can be lack of strength. No person is created equal and it can be a lack of strength in different areas for different kids. It can also be mobility and agility depending on what they are doing. It is why proper weighted clubs are important. I agree with @kekoa .

I agree strength is a major issue, and could probably explain casting and jumping

I'm not sure that would explain "scooping, pinning lead arm to the chest" (chicken wing?)

yeah, the scooping and chicken wing part is probably from poor instructions.

It actually isn't. It can be caused by several reasons (strength, mobility, flexibility, agility). If you watch the PGA guys, several will go through with what I called a modified chicken wing. Specifically Koepka and McIlroy.

This all total nonsense.