Hogan's imagery of elbow's close together...

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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    What a great thread.
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  • flybubflybub Members  275WRX Points: 62Posts: 275 Greens
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    It's funny because I've been thinking about the right elbow during the swing and it originated from my bowling career. I was raised in a bowling center (my family owns 2 centers) and I have always been taught by my father who was a great bowler for most of his life. For a righty the crease in my right arm (opposite my elbow) must face my target otherwise my elbow flies out and I pull my shot. So in my golf swing I feel like my crease should be facing almost perpendicular to my target line that in turn does 2 things in my mind. (1) it keeps the handle of the club ahead of the face and (2) it prevents the right elbow getting stuck. If that crease is facing the target then I'm almost certain to flip at the bottom of the swing. Now that probably doesn't work for everyone but that thought has certainly helped me.
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Love that pic of butch and tiger.
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  • lonestar48lonestar48 Members  189WRX Points: 0Posts: 189
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    I couldn't wait to add to this thread after keying in on something recently that has held up with every club in the bag so far.



    Since we are all built differently, with different muscle structure, flexibility, etc., the important thing to remember is what Hogan says he felt. Having the elbow pits pointing straight up is not the key...the key is twisting, pronating, whatever you need to do to feel like those elbows are connected. Video of your swing may show something entirely different than what your body feels, especially if you're not used to it yet.



    I tried to exaggerate the pronated, twisted feel of the right arm while keeping the upper arms connected to my side and have begun striking the ball really well. For me, I feel like I'm twisting my right arm open (palm up) as much as I can to the top of my backswing, then hitting down and through hard. Working great so far but its hard to tell the difference in most before and after video, even though to me it feels like the difference should be night and day!
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?
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  • lonestar48lonestar48 Members  189WRX Points: 0Posts: 189
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    limcauco wrote:


    Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?


    I'm not as concerned with the forearm as I am with the upper arm. Try to feel like you're pushing your right elbow down a little while rotating your upper arm clockwise as far as you can (looking down at ball perspective). Keep the club on plane and keep both upper arms connected to your body. Don't sway out of a nice, tight turn around your right hip. Actually squat into that loaded leg and hip. Stop when it feels like your upper arm is flat or level (it won't be but I said feels) or that you're going to hit it about 80% or so. Focus on a spot a couple inches behind the ball and see what happens...



    Simplified even further...try to feel like you're twisting that right arm so much that it might break!



    I'm hitting it longer and straighter than I ever have in my life with every club in the bag, even partial wedge shots! Good luck!
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  • AtraynAtrayn ChicagoClubWRX  2197WRX Points: 206Posts: 2,197 Platinum Tees
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    Greyboy wrote:

    JD3 wrote:


    He absolutely did. Can be seen working on it throughout his career. I know it's awkward at first, but commit to it and several things will fall into place.



    Harmon takes a lot of heat around here ... deservedly so at times ... but he did pickup one essential piece from his father having Hogan around the house.



    Love this picture ....

    butchharmon-001.jpg






    This is a cool pic, and I'm assuming something I'm currently working on. Is Butch preventhing Tigers elbow from going out (flying) and making sure he's keeping it more vertical so his hands are infront of him?



    I tend to get inside and flat on the backswing, with a flying right elbow and the arms behind me causing an overswing. I've been working on keeping that right elbow more up and down at the top of the backswing with my hands infront of me - definitely seems to help prevent me from coming OTT as much as I normally do.




    Would have to know the context of the article or discussion that goes along with the image.
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    Hogan's Secret.......it's in plain sight but not for everyone...
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    lonestar48 wrote:

    limcauco wrote:


    Tex, you mean rotating the right forearm clockwise or counterclockwise from your perspective? Pronating=counterclockwise, correct?


    I'm not as concerned with the forearm as I am with the upper arm. Try to feel like you're pushing your right elbow down a little while rotating your upper arm clockwise as far as you can (looking down at ball perspective). Keep the club on plane and keep both upper arms connected to your body. Don't sway out of a nice, tight turn around your right hip. Actually squat into that loaded leg and hip. Stop when it feels like your upper arm is flat or level (it won't be but I said feels) or that you're going to hit it about 80% or so. Focus on a spot a couple inches behind the ball and see what happens...



    Simplified even further...try to feel like you're twisting that right arm so much that it might break!



    I'm hitting it longer and straighter than I ever have in my life with every club in the bag, even partial wedge shots! Good luck!




    Ok. Technically, external rotation of right shoulder?
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Atrayn wrote:

    Greyboy wrote:

    JD3 wrote:


    He absolutely did. Can be seen working on it throughout his career. I know it's awkward at first, but commit to it and several things will fall into place.



    Harmon takes a lot of heat around here ... deservedly so at times ... but he did pickup one essential piece from his father having Hogan around the house.



    Love this picture ....

    butchharmon-001.jpg






    This is a cool pic, and I'm assuming something I'm currently working on. Is Butch preventhing Tigers elbow from going out (flying) and making sure he's keeping it more vertical so his hands are infront of him?



    I tend to get inside and flat on the backswing, with a flying right elbow and the arms behind me causing an overswing. I've been working on keeping that right elbow more up and down at the top of the backswing with my hands infront of me - definitely seems to help prevent me from coming OTT as much as I normally do.




    Would have to know the context of the article or discussion that goes along with the image.




    Is that available?
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  • fatsfats Members  1865WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,865
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    Mike_C wrote:


    To be honest, this ONE thing in Hogan's book, goof me up for years. It if physically impossible for me to make much of a backswing with my left arm in the posisition shown in the book. Right arm? Sure, it points at the hip. But the only way I can turn with my left elbow pointing inward is I must rotate my left arm from the shoulder socket, which creates a big inside move on the way back.



    At impact, the left arm has the elbow pointing basically down the line, not at your hip. Some old timer gave me this tip years ago, and this is the position I decided to start with, as that is where I wanted to get back to. From there, I could take the club straight back and not way inside with a rotating arm...this one change improved my game more than anything ever did. Post impact, it rotates left, but at impact, its going down the line....



    Here is Hogan at impact:



    hoganimpact1.jpg



    Now look at this sequence, Hogan has his left arm with the elbow pointing down the line just at takeaway, and at impact:



    gwar01_swings.jpg



    A young Nicklaus at impact, this is what I strive for, if my body would allow:



    inar01_jack_nickaus.jpg



    setup:



    Nicklaus-SwingCenters.jpg



    Old Jack, notice his left arm/elbow still in the same spot at address:

    inar01_nicklausswing.jpg



    Here is Tiger at impact:



    tiger8.jpg



    inar01_woods_irons.jpg





    Annika:



    SorenstamHeadSwivel.jpg



    sorenstam_hotswing.gif





    Young and old Watson:



    inar01_tom_watson_swing.jpg



    inar02_tom_watson_swing.jpg
    Very good. Just don't relate it to the BS. It's all about the impact zone in the DS. Oh, and BTW it appears the "low left society" has finally left the building. - Hooray !!
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Nice to see you posting again sir fats!
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  • fatsfats Members  1865WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,865
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    It pleases me to see a topic where it's visual rather than "some guy's theory." The Jack image is as good as it gets. Draw a line down from his L hip to L shoe (Would start middle of upper L forearm) all very much a Hogan position albeit it way more powerful.
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Nice to see you posting Larry. You should post more often. Do you teach pointing the left elbow dtl right at setup? From there, is it an active move?
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    fats won't give it away that easily!
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Worth trying though...image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Wait...that the secret???
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    Even if it is...Fats won't tell!
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Sad to say, yes. Guess we're left with thousands of posts to read bet lines and figure it out ourselves.
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  • limcaucolimcauco Members  223WRX Points: 0Posts: 223
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    Or hook a lesson with those who knows and hope they give you a hint!
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    You can get a lesson from Fats himself!
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  • lonestar48lonestar48 Members  189WRX Points: 0Posts: 189
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    You can get a lesson from Fats himself!


    Details please! PM me when you get a chance.
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    lonestar48 wrote:



    You can get a lesson from Fats himself!


    Details please! PM me when you get a chance.




    I'd PM Fats.
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  • eightironeightiron Banned  3136WRX Points: 0Posts: 3,136
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    Jbacoustics another svs lima cuckoo handle that got banned lmao
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    who got banned now?
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  • ej002ej002 Unregistered  5129WRX Points: 3Posts: 5,129 Titanium Tees
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    Nobody, there is an old banned handle early on called JBL
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    what are doc's thoughts on the elbows?
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  • Mike_CMike_C Members  1593WRX Points: 204Posts: 1,593 Platinum Tees
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    fats wrote:

    Mike_C wrote:


    To be honest, this ONE thing in Hogan's book, goof me up for years. It if physically impossible for me to make much of a backswing with my left arm in the posisition shown in the book. Right arm? Sure, it points at the hip. But the only way I can turn with my left elbow pointing inward is I must rotate my left arm from the shoulder socket, which creates a big inside move on the way back.



    At impact, the left arm has the elbow pointing basically down the line, not at your hip. Some old timer gave me this tip years ago, and this is the position I decided to start with, as that is where I wanted to get back to. From there, I could take the club straight back and not way inside with a rotating arm...this one change improved my game more than anything ever did. Post impact, it rotates left, but at impact, its going down the line....



    Here is Hogan at impact:



    hoganimpact1.jpg



    Now look at this sequence, Hogan has his left arm with the elbow pointing down the line just at takeaway, and at impact:



    gwar01_swings.jpg



    A young Nicklaus at impact, this is what I strive for, if my body would allow:



    inar01_jack_nickaus.jpg



    setup:



    Nicklaus-SwingCenters.jpg



    Old Jack, notice his left arm/elbow still in the same spot at address:

    inar01_nicklausswing.jpg



    Here is Tiger at impact:



    tiger8.jpg



    inar01_woods_irons.jpg





    Annika:



    SorenstamHeadSwivel.jpg



    sorenstam_hotswing.gif





    Young and old Watson:



    inar01_tom_watson_swing.jpg



    inar02_tom_watson_swing.jpg
    Very good. Just don't relate it to the BS. It's all about the impact zone in the DS. Oh, and BTW it appears the "low left society" has finally left the building. - Hooray !!






    I relate it to the back swing in my instance because of the position shown in Hogan's book, and how if I start there, it gets me out of position going back. I guess If I could start rotated in, and get back at impact to the picture shown in a young Nicklaus, that would be fine, but I can't.



    As I said, in my mind, I strive for the positions that is shown by a young Jack, just my old body is pretty much in the shape and condition of the old Jack....
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    I really like the annika footage. She kinda has a hula hoop hip action going on there.
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  • hoganswinghoganswing Members  156WRX Points: 25Posts: 156 Fairways
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    chris_golf wrote:


    I see a lot of people believing that they have to keep the elbows together... In my understanding I allways believed he was meaning to keep the pressure under your armpits alive...




    From my research Hogan did not have his arms close together at setup. I saw an ad for a product yesterday that claimed to help you have arms close together like Hogan did at setup. And it's clear he didn't do this. There's a lot in five lessons that Hogan never did but he told others they should do. Not sure what to make of that to be honest. Feel vs. Real maybe. I heard somewhere someone asked him about those sore of discrepancies and he told the person it's all there, you just have to read between the lines. :-)
    Posted:
    How To Swing Like Ben Hogan
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  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
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    good stuff hoganswing! His right foot being perpendicular to the line of flight is another thing he didn't do. He turned out his right foot a bit.
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