Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[gaz7788]

http://youtu.be/olesKFME1rg

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416579347' post='10482617']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1416579016' post='10482583']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416577060' post='10482459']
[color=#333333]It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.[/color]


[color=#333333]Jack was on his left side before his DS began. [/color]

[color=#333333]Derek Jeter and Moe Norman got to their left side early also... Moe called it the Master Move[/color]

[b][color=#333333]Cant swing the club /bat from inside if right arm is straightening.(5:30)[/color][/b]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGRcplV8dlo"]https://www.youtube....h?v=QGRcplV8dlo[/url]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1yPPC4RXUQ&list=PLJj7Adg3EyzxwJJJI-OrV23TNeHqrPcpy"]https://www.youtube....OrV23TNeHqrPcpy[/url]
[/quote]

I disagree - in baseball and golf - delay the hit, or swing late and you'll impact the ball on an inside the target line...the ball will go up the first base line - or foul. Happens all the time.
[/quote]

Who said delay the hit? who said swing late?

Watch the video and learn.
[/quote]

I watched the video. I also have coached baseball, tennis and lacrosse...where "repeatable motion" is important. The only way that makes practical sense is if you consistently swing in that position. Well if we could all be that consistent we wouldn't worry about how to swing. The point of golf IMO is not a perfect swing - it's a repeatable swing. Many people with bad swings can play really good golf.

Case in point - if you're a good golfer and I give you clubs that are too long and too whippy I bet within 2-3 rounds you're going to score just fine. People tend to be results oriented, they aren't rote. They don't and often can't be as repeatable as the video needs them to be in order to make its point.

[mikah]

[color=#282828]The only way that makes practical sense is if you consistently swing in that position. Well if we could all be that consistent we wouldn't worry about how to swing. The point of golf IMO is not a perfect swing - it's a repeatable swing. Many people with bad swings can play really good golf. [/color]

[color=#282828]Case in point - if you're a good golfer and I give you clubs that are too long and too whippy I bet within 2-3 rounds you're going to score just fine. People tend to be results oriented, they aren't rote. They don't and often can't be as repeatable as the video needs them to be in order to make its point.[/color]



[color=#282828]I dont think anyone would argue with what youve said.[/color]

[color=#282828]thread topic is right arm straightening.[/color]

[color=#282828]Just saying; Jeter, the Babe, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman had common elements in their swings that made their ball striking consistent and repeatable.[/color]
[color=#282828]and those elements made their swings less complicated and repeatable, [/color][color=#282828]much less[/color][color=#282828] timing dependent. [/color]

[color=#282828]Learning a swing that is less complicated, more repeatable, less timing dependent is easier than the alternative.[/color]

[color=#282828] [/color]

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416585190' post='10483103']
[color=#282828]The only way that makes practical sense is if you consistently swing in that position. Well if we could all be that consistent we wouldn't worry about how to swing. The point of golf IMO is not a perfect swing - it's a repeatable swing. Many people with bad swings can play really good golf. [/color]

[color=#282828]Case in point - if you're a good golfer and I give you clubs that are too long and too whippy I bet within 2-3 rounds you're going to score just fine. People tend to be results oriented, they aren't rote. They don't and often can't be as repeatable as the video needs them to be in order to make its point.[/color]



[color=#282828]I dont think anyone would argue with what youve said.[/color]

[color=#282828]thread topic is right arm straightening.[/color]

[color=#282828]Just saying; Jeter, the Babe, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman had common elements in their swings that made their ball striking consistent and repeatable.[/color]
[color=#282828]and those elements made their swings less complicated and repeatable, [/color][color=#282828]much less[/color][color=#282828] timing dependent. [/color]

[color=#282828]Learning a swing that is less complicated, more repeatable, less timing dependent is easier than the alternative.[/color]


[/quote]

AGree. My original point was that straightening the arm through the swing is about as easy to do as throwing a ball. I think a lot of guys here are arguing about mice-nuts (things that are minute). All decent throws and swings do the exact same thing with the right arm - the elbow leads and the arms is straightening through impact/release. Although he feel may be different to different people - IMO it's undeniable that a decent swing and throw mimic each other. A lot of you 'pros" are just debating the extent or degree to which the actions occur....which is nonsense to me.

For example I think the conversation about the wrists hinging or unhinging is bordering on the ridiculous. As evidenced again by a throw. Try to throw a ball without hinging your wrists, or leading with your elbow and straightening the arm.....if you were throwing out the first pitch at a baseball game - you'd be on Youtube for all the wrong reasons.

[PJ1120]

[quote name='gaz7788' timestamp='1416582077' post='10482845']
It's weird that people do not understand the difference between straightening and straight. Simple english.

If I push my kid on the swing in a v shape Lord I will have a funeral.
[/quote]

I took a lesson from a MORAD trained instructor. He said Mac said the right arm cannot start to "straighten" too fast and that it should be straightening through impact and not be straight.

[Jobu]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416581869' post='10482825']
[color=#282828]I can promise you a baseball player is trying to get the bat "long" as possible at contact which means extending his right arm. [/color]


[color=#282828]agree[/color]
[color=#282828]its how one understands that to happen, is the difference.[/color]

[color=#282828]the bat 'gets long', and/or the club head reaches maximum speed[/color]
[color=#282828]ONLY when the hands decelerate prior to impact.(TPI kinematic sequence)....thats when CF peaks[/color]

[color=#282828]NOT when one tries to consciously straighten the trail arm.[/color]
[/quote]

does angular velocity decrease?

[iteachgolf]

But Mikah the bat doesn't speed up and get long because the hands slow down. The hands slow down because the bat gets long. The intent is to speed up the end up of the bat and make it as long as possible. You better believe the right arm is actively straightened. The speeding up the bat to get inline with the left arm is what slows the hands down. Not the other way around. The intent is to speed up and not slow down. The right arm is definitely not just along for the ride when hitting a baseball. The top arm and hand is extremely active when hitting. A better isn't just letting the bat catch up yo hit hands. He's actively trying to get it to catch and then pass his hands as quick as possible. It's not just a byproduct of CF. It's EXTREMELY active intent. The slowing down is an effect of actively lengthening the bat. It's an effect. Not a cause

[Millbrook]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1416586293' post='10483189']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416585190' post='10483103']
[color=#282828]The only way that makes practical sense is if you consistently swing in that position. Well if we could all be that consistent we wouldn't worry about how to swing. The point of golf IMO is not a perfect swing - it's a repeatable swing. Many people with bad swings can play really good golf. [/color]

[color=#282828]Case in point - if you're a good golfer and I give you clubs that are too long and too whippy I bet within 2-3 rounds you're going to score just fine. People tend to be results oriented, they aren't rote. They don't and often can't be as repeatable as the video needs them to be in order to make its point.[/color]



[color=#282828]I dont think anyone would argue with what youve said.[/color]

[color=#282828]thread topic is right arm straightening.[/color]

[color=#282828]Just saying; Jeter, the Babe, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman had common elements in their swings that made their ball striking consistent and repeatable.[/color]
[color=#282828]and those elements made their swings less complicated and repeatable, [/color][color=#282828]much less[/color][color=#282828] timing dependent. [/color]

[color=#282828]Learning a swing that is less complicated, more repeatable, less timing dependent is easier than the alternative.[/color]


[/quote]

AGree. My original point was that straightening the arm through the swing is about as easy to do as throwing a ball. I think a lot of guys here are arguing about mice-nuts (things that are minute). All decent throws and swings do the exact same thing with the right arm - the elbow leads and the arms is straightening through impact/release. Although he feel may be different to different people - IMO it's undeniable that a decent swing and throw mimic each other. A lot of you 'pros" are just debating the extent or degree to which the actions occur....which is nonsense to me.

For example I think the conversation about the wrists hinging or unhinging is bordering on the ridiculous. As evidenced again by a throw. Try to throw a ball without hinging your wrists, or leading with your elbow and straightening the arm.....if you were throwing out the first pitch at a baseball game - you'd be on Youtube for all the wrong reasons.
[/quote]

Best not mention the difference between vertical and horizontal hinging then.

[mikah]

[color=#282828]But Mikah the bat doesn't speed up and get long because the hands slow down. The hands slow down because the bat gets long. The intent is to speed up the end up of the bat and make it as long as possible. You better believe the right arm is actively straightened. The speeding up the bat to get inline with the left arm is what slows the hands down. Not the other way around. The intent is to speed up and not slow down. The right arm is definitely not just along for the ride when hitting a baseball. The top arm and hand is extremely active when hitting. A better isn't just letting the bat catch up yo hit hands. He's actively trying to get it to catch and then pass his hands as quick as possible. It's not just a byproduct of CF. It's EXTREMELY active intent. The slowing down is an effect of actively lengthening the bat. It's an effect. Not a cause[/color]

[color=#282828]safe to say that you do not agree with TPI about the kinematic sequence?[/color]

[b]Kinematic Sequence[/b] TPI’s philosophy on the swing goes something like this, [i]“We don’t believe there is one way to swing a club, we believe there are an infinite number of ways to swing a club. But we do believe that there is one efficient way for everyone to swing and it is based on what they can physically do.”[/i] The kinematic sequence is by far the most important takeaway for myself especially with the demographic I train. Basically it doesn’t matter how your swing looks or closely resembles Tiger Woods or Ernie Els. The most important part for sustained success is in the efficiency of your swing! All of the greatest rotational athletes in golf, baseball, softball, punching, kicking, etc. have the most efficient production and transfer of power. The key points to understand about the kinematic sequence are the following:

[b]1) All rotational power follows an identical sequence. The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.)
[b]2) All segments of the body build on the previous. [/b]The fastest will be the club or implement, followed by lead arm, torso, and legs.
[b]3) Each area of the body decelerates as the next area accelerates. [/b]Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[b]4) The style of your swing might have no effect on your ability to generate a good kinematic sequence![/b]

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416593943' post='10483895']
[color=#282828]But Mikah the bat doesn't speed up and get long because the hands slow down. The hands slow down because the bat gets long. The intent is to speed up the end up of the bat and make it as long as possible. You better believe the right arm is actively straightened. The speeding up the bat to get inline with the left arm is what slows the hands down. Not the other way around. The intent is to speed up and not slow down. The right arm is definitely not just along for the ride when hitting a baseball. The top arm and hand is extremely active when hitting. A better isn't just letting the bat catch up yo hit hands. He's actively trying to get it to catch and then pass his hands as quick as possible. It's not just a byproduct of CF. It's EXTREMELY active intent. The slowing down is an effect of actively lengthening the bat. It's an effect. Not a cause[/color]

[color=#282828]safe to say that you do not agree with TPI about the kinematic sequence?[/color]

[b]Kinematic Sequence[/b] TPI’s philosophy on the swing goes something like this, [i]“We don’t believe there is one way to swing a club, we believe there are an infinite number of ways to swing a club. But we do believe that there is one efficient way for everyone to swing and it is based on what they can physically do.”[/i] The kinematic sequence is by far the most important takeaway for myself especially with the demographic I train. Basically it doesn’t matter how your swing looks or closely resembles Tiger Woods or Ernie Els. The most important part for sustained success is in the efficiency of your swing! All of the greatest rotational athletes in golf, baseball, softball, punching, kicking, etc. have the most efficient production and transfer of power. The key points to understand about the kinematic sequence are the following:

[b]1) All rotational power follows an identical sequence. The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.)
[b]2) All segments of the body build on the previous. [/b]The fastest will be the club or implement, followed by lead arm, torso, and legs.
[b]3) Each area of the body decelerates as the next area accelerates. [/b]Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[b]4) The style of your swing might have no effect on your ability to generate a good kinematic sequence![/b]
[/quote]
Your argument does not apply. Tpi does not specify how or why the hands slow down. They just say they slow down. You are seriously a few divisions out of your league here.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416593943' post='10483895']
[color=#282828]But Mikah the bat doesn't speed up and get long because the hands slow down. The hands slow down because the bat gets long. The intent is to speed up the end up of the bat and make it as long as possible. You better believe the right arm is actively straightened. The speeding up the bat to get inline with the left arm is what slows the hands down. Not the other way around. The intent is to speed up and not slow down. The right arm is definitely not just along for the ride when hitting a baseball. The top arm and hand is extremely active when hitting. A better isn't just letting the bat catch up yo hit hands. He's actively trying to get it to catch and then pass his hands as quick as possible. It's not just a byproduct of CF. It's EXTREMELY active intent. The slowing down is an effect of actively lengthening the bat. It's an effect. Not a cause[/color]

[color=#282828]safe to say that you do not agree with TPI about the kinematic sequence?[/color]

[b]Kinematic Sequence[/b] TPI’s philosophy on the swing goes something like this, [i]“We don’t believe there is one way to swing a club, we believe there are an infinite number of ways to swing a club. But we do believe that there is one efficient way for everyone to swing and it is based on what they can physically do.”[/i] The kinematic sequence is by far the most important takeaway for myself especially with the demographic I train. Basically it doesn’t matter how your swing looks or closely resembles Tiger Woods or Ernie Els. The most important part for sustained success is in the efficiency of your swing! All of the greatest rotational athletes in golf, baseball, softball, punching, kicking, etc. have the most efficient production and transfer of power. The key points to understand about the kinematic sequence are the following:

[b]1) All rotational power follows an identical sequence. The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.)
[b]2) All segments of the body build on the previous. [/b]The fastest will be the club or implement, followed by lead arm, torso, and legs.
[b]3) Each area of the body decelerates as the next area accelerates. [/b]Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[b]4) The style of your swing might have no effect on your ability to generate a good kinematic sequence![/b]
[/quote]

Actually they are agreeing with me. Saying the previous segment decelerates as the next segment accelerates. Meaning that the acceleration of the next segment slows down the previous.

You are in way over your head and you have cause and effect backwards. I said the hands slow down. But they slow down as a reaction to the speeding up the end up of the bat/club or IOW increasing the radius/making bat long.

Or short to and long through like any hitting coach teaches.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1416511539' post='10479115']
IF there were pure swingers and hiters - guys could play one armed and be just as long:


I rest my case.
[/quote]

Assuming you know that a cf Swing is powered by the right shoulder, which arm would that be?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1416511832' post='10479141']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416511438' post='10479111']
Or maybe the the right triceps because he's Hitting, not Swinging.
[/quote]



Object you're trying to move is behind you...that requires a pulling motion first, unless you want to throw and cast, the pushing is after. You have both in a full swing regardless what concept Homer came up with...it was just a concept with no real evidence.
[/quote]

In a Hit, the thing you're pushing is pressure point #1 which is always in front of the right triceps, which is doing the pushing. The cocked left wrist is manually uncocked. The evidence is that anyone who understands the def can do it. How do you prove you can walk? The Nike way.

[mikah]

safe to say that you do not agree with TPI about the kinematic sequence?

[b]Kinematic Sequence[/b] TPI's philosophy on the swing goes something like this, [i]"We don't believe there is one way to swing a club, we believe there are an infinite number of ways to swing a club. But we do believe that there is one efficient way for everyone to swing and it is based on what they can physically do."[/i] The kinematic sequence is by far the most important takeaway for myself especially with the demographic I train. Basically it doesn't matter how your swing looks or closely resembles Tiger Woods or Ernie Els. The most important part for sustained success is in the efficiency of your swing! All of the greatest rotational athletes in golf, baseball, softball, punching, kicking, etc. have the most efficient production and transfer of power. The key points to understand about the kinematic sequence are the following:

[b]1) All rotational power follows an identical sequence. The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.)
[b]2) All segments of the body build on the previous. [/b]The fastest will be the club or implement, followed by lead arm, torso, and legs.
[b]3) Each area of the body decelerates as the next area accelerates. [/b]Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the "snap".
[b]4) The style of your swing might have no effect on your ability to generate a good kinematic sequence![/b]




Your argument does not apply. Tpi does not specify how or why the hands slow down. They just say they slow down. You are seriously a few divisions out of your league here.


How and why is simple physics.(Newtons Law)
TPI assumes some minimum knowledge of science, leverage and anatomy... their mistake.



[b]TPI: "The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.) "

So for those hard of understanding:

prior to impact, the legs slow down first, that speeds up the torso,

then the torso decelerates, which speeds up the lead arm

then the lead arm decelerates, which speeds up the golf club or bat..... like a bull whip.

TPI: "Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjotejhorP0#t=80"]https://www.youtube....jotejhorP0#t=80[/url]

understand why we wear seatbelts for those occasions when the car decelerates suddenly?

the faster we decelerate the arms, the faster we accelerate the clubhead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iYZPp2zYY

[Biomateur]

Both scenarios are possible, from both ends, so to speak. For an average bread eater, it is certainly easier to imagine the TPI version.

[pick it up]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416600670' post='10484541']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1416511832' post='10479141']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416511438' post='10479111']
Or maybe the the right triceps because he's Hitting, not Swinging.
[/quote]



Object you're trying to move is behind you...that requires a pulling motion first, unless you want to throw and cast, the pushing is after. You have both in a full swing regardless what concept Homer came up with...it was just a concept with no real evidence.
[/quote]

In a Hit, the thing you're pushing is pressure point #1 which is always in front of the right triceps, which is doing the pushing. The cocked left wrist is manually uncocked. The evidence is that anyone who understands the def can do it. How do you prove you can walk? The Nike way.
[/quote]




HOW CAN YOU PROVE YOU CAN WALK?....LOL! Does that comparison make any sense? What's the body doing? The pivot? Is everything pushing... no pulling anywhere? You are stuck in the middle ages when it comes to understanding the forces and torques that a person is applying to the club.


By the way can you push a rope or a chain?

[pinhigh27]

TPI doesn't know jack sh*t.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1416539720' post='10481357']
Jack Nicklaus said he used to try to straighten his right arm as early and as fast as he could. I am looking for the exact quote, but he talks about releasing the club as soon as possible too.

[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-01/flick-nicklaus-release"]http://www.golfdiges...icklaus-release[/url]

[b]JACK NICKLAUS:[/b][color=#333333] In the left image above, taken in 1995, it looks like I'm purposely delaying the release of the club. But I can assure you I never tried to delay the hit or retain my wrist c0ck. That happens naturally, if you start with a proper grip, maintain a light grip pressure and keep your arms relaxed. It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.[/color]
[/quote]

I hit it best when trying to extend my R arm ASAP as well

[pinhigh27]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference is right arm straightened by Centrifugal Force(in a fraction of second)

vs

straightening right arm by conscious intention.

 

You realize centrifugal force isn't a real thing right? it's an academic concept, and something that can't actually be measured. The fact that you don't know this shows you don't understand enough to participate in the conversation.

[pick it up]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416600670' post='10484541']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1416511832' post='10479141']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1416511438' post='10479111']
Or maybe the the right triceps because he's Hitting, not Swinging.
[/quote]



Object you're trying to move is behind you...that requires a pulling motion first, unless you want to throw and cast, the pushing is after. You have both in a full swing regardless what concept Homer came up with...it was just a concept with no real evidence.
[/quote]

In a Hit, the thing you're pushing is pressure point #1 which is always in front of the right triceps, which is doing the pushing. The cocked left wrist is manually uncocked. The evidence is that anyone who understands the def can do it. How do you prove you can walk? The Nike way.
[/quote]


You realize if you push against p.p.#1 you are also pulling on the club...since the club is behind p.p.#1. Give it up already, you are mired in a yellow sea of nonsense! The fact is pushing one trail hand/arm against the lead hand/arm causes a pull on the club. Where did you get your info from? Better find another book!

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416603998' post='10484861']
[b]TPI: "The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.) "

So for those hard of understanding:

prior to impact, the legs slow down first, that speeds up the torso,

then the torso decelerates, which speeds up the lead arm

then the lead arm decelerates, which speeds up the golf club or bat..... like a bull whip.

TPI: "Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjotejhorP0#t=80"]https://www.youtube....jotejhorP0#t=80[/url]

understand why we wear seatbelts for those occasions when the car decelerates suddenly?

the faster we decelerate the arms, the faster we accelerate the clubhead

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iYZPp2zYY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=d7iYZPp2zYY[/url]
[/quote]

Again you have cause and effect backwards. When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.

[mikah]

[mikah]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416607459' post='10485189']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416603998' post='10484861']
[b]TPI: "The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.) "

So for those hard of understanding:

prior to impact, the legs slow down first, that speeds up the torso,

then the torso decelerates, which speeds up the lead arm

then the lead arm decelerates, which speeds up the golf club or bat..... like a bull whip.

TPI: "Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjotejhorP0#t=80"]https://www.youtube....jotejhorP0#t=80[/url]

understand why we wear seatbelts for those occasions when the car decelerates suddenly?

the faster we decelerate the arms, the faster we accelerate the clubhead

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iYZPp2zYY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=d7iYZPp2zYY[/url]
[/quote]

Again you have cause and effect backwards. When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.
[/quote]

if the lengthening of the radius slows down the hands. What decelerates the lower body and the torso and the arms,
all of which happen before the hands decelerate

[iteachgolf]

[color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]"[/background][/size][/color][color=#282828]The MOI of the orbiting clubhead is a squared function of the radius of it's arc of rotation, so as your wrists unc*ck, that radius increases, and MOI of clubhead increases substantially. Since the wrist joint at this point in the swing has very low internal forces (essentially acting as a free pivot joint) angular momentum is largely conserved during release. Due to COAM then, the hands/arms slow down significantly just prior to impact, moreso the later the release point.[/color][color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] [/background][/size][/color][color=#282828]The MOI of anything can be calculated about any axis of rotation. In the example I'm talking about, the Cg of the clubhead about the (ever changing) axis of rotation of the entire clubhead as it orbits around the golfer. The MOI of a point mass (or Cg of clubhead) is a squared function of the radius of rotation. This is why you can really see the hands slow down near impact in a golfer with a ton of lag, even if that golfer is trying to resist that slow down and is driving their hands forward as hard as possible. [/color][color=#282828][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]"[/background][/size][/color]

[color=#282828]the "crack the whip" analogy is a very poor one and not applicable in a golf swing, as the sonic boom is created in the whip is due to the propagating wave in a tapered whip. [/color]

[color="#282828"]​Rest of the body works the same. The [/color][color=#282828]sudden increase in MOI of the system slows down each part sequentially. There are other factors but this creates a [/color][color="#282828"]resistance. There isn't enough instant acceleration to compensate and keep the other parts moving at the same speed.[/color]

[Hstead]

I feel enlightened now. All of this time I have been trying to generate speed by swinging my arms and hands faster, and I can only get my clubhead speed into the low 120's. Now I plan to just slow my hands down and really make them stop so my clubhead will speed up like a whip. I should be able to kill it if I slow my hands down to an abrupt halt.

Thanks Mikah

[Biomateur]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416606709' post='10485107']
TPI doesn't know jack sh*t.
[/quote]

I can imagine that actually, however, they pretend to know and many people believe in their rationales.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416607459' post='10485189'] When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.
[/quote]

Excellently explained. Nevertheless, as I said, for an average humanistic brain it is much easier to think that deccelerating or even stopping of the action of one element cause starting or accelerating of the other.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Biomateur' timestamp='1416609106' post='10485353']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416606709' post='10485107']
TPI doesn't know jack sh*t.
[/quote]

I can imagine that actually, however, they pretend to know and many people believe in their rationales.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416607459' post='10485189'] When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.
[/quote]

Excellently explained. Nevertheless, as I said, for an average humanistic brain it is much easier to think that deccelerating or even stopping of the action of one element cause starting or accelerating of the other.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]Intentionally slowing down one segment will not speed up another. If that were actually true, why aren't these idiots trying to stop their hands at the ball so that the clubhead will speed up even more, as it's magically accelerated by the hands slowing down? [/color]

[color=#282828]It's not about whats easier to understand. It's about what's right and wrong.[/color]

[Biomateur]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416609339' post='10485369']
[quote name='Biomateur' timestamp='1416609106' post='10485353']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1416606709' post='10485107']
TPI doesn't know jack sh*t.
[/quote]

I can imagine that actually, however, they pretend to know and many people believe in their rationales.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416607459' post='10485189'] When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.
[/quote]

Excellently explained. Nevertheless, as I said, for an average humanistic brain it is much easier to think that deccelerating or even stopping of the action of one element cause starting or accelerating of the other.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]Intentionally slowing down one segment will not speed up another. If that were actually true, why aren't these idiots trying to stop their hands at the ball so that the clubhead will speed up even more, as it's magically accelerated by the hands slowing down? [/color]

[color=#282828]It's not about whats easier to understand. It's about what's right and wrong.[/color]
[/quote]

I know it. My point was to explain those who do not understand it. It is easier to compare the decreasing velocity of slowing down element with almost unchanged one of the other than to think your way. Hence the problems, at least IMO.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416608152' post='10485267']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1416607459' post='10485189']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1416603998' post='10484861']
[b]TPI: "The sequence is[/b]: 1[sup]st[/sup]: Legs 2[sup]nd[/sup]: Torso 3[sup]rd[/sup]: Lead Arm 4[sup]th[/sup]: Implement (Golf Club, Bat, Ball, etc.) "

So for those hard of understanding:

prior to impact, the legs slow down first, that speeds up the torso,

then the torso decelerates, which speeds up the lead arm

then the lead arm decelerates, which speeds up the golf club or bat..... like a bull whip.

TPI: "Think of a whip. You quickly accelerate the handle followed by a rapid deceleration to produce the most forceful snap. Your legs are the handle and the club is the “snap”.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjotejhorP0#t=80"]https://www.youtube....jotejhorP0#t=80[/url]

understand why we wear seatbelts for those occasions when the car decelerates suddenly?

the faster we decelerate the arms, the faster we accelerate the clubhead

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iYZPp2zYY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=d7iYZPp2zYY[/url]
[/quote]

Again you have cause and effect backwards. When a car slams on the brakes you are moving faster relative to the car but not faster relative to the ground. You are not actually speeding up when a car slams on its brakes. You are actually decelerating. Just at a slower rate than the car is decelerating. Again nobody in any athletic activity should try to slow down the arms or the hands. That would lead to less speed not more. The hands slow down as the radius of the club or bat gets longer. It is the lengthening of this radius which slows down the hands. The wrist uncocking slow the hands down not the other way around.
[/quote]

if the lengthening of the radius slows down the hands. What decelerates the lower body and the torso and the arms,
all of which happen before the hands decelerate
[/quote]

It's not an IF. It's a fact. Rest is explained above

[PJ72]

Same for Elkington. Arms are slow to move away from right shoulder so right arm is too bent (90* at hip high) and the right shoulder stalls so that he can fire his right arm which results in straighter right arm at impact. Its the right arm straightening too late, too narrow and "maintaining angles" which forces the right shoulder to stall in order to unload those angles very late. The over bent right arm late also forces wrist to uncock in order to increase radius to reach the ball (over bent right arm shortens it) which is why handle is so high at impact.

 

 

 

Great posts, Dan and Geoff.

 

First time I've heard of trying to straighten the right arm - something else to try at the range!