For educational purposes

[markfax]

If you had done flop shot as you showed in your short game video series, instead of how you did it the top photo, would bottom photo still be better?

[iteachgolf]

If you had done flop shot as you showed in your short game video series, instead of how you did it the top photo, would bottom photo still be better?

 

Yes and even more so. Impact alignments would have been identical with a little less speed resulting in slightly less spin.

[starsail85]

I'm abit confused , but they both measured same distance from pitch Mark? Also, no idea to ball speed which would have a say in desent angle too?

 

What are you confused about? The question is clear. One rolled more than the other. Which one was it?

 

Nobody said anywhere they rolled out the same. No clue where you're coming up with this

 

Misread one of your posts , human error I'm afraid

 

I can always remember Phil Rodgers saying the high shot finished closer to the pitch mark than the low spinner . Still true?

[iteachgolf]

I'm abit confused , but they both measured same distance from pitch Mark? Also, no idea to ball speed which would have a say in desent angle too?

 

What are you confused about? The question is clear. One rolled more than the other. Which one was it?

 

Nobody said anywhere they rolled out the same. No clue where you're coming up with this

 

Misread one of your posts , human error I'm afraid

 

I can always remember Phil Rodgers saying the high shot finished closer to the pitch mark than the low spinner . Still true?

 

Far from always true. This obviously proves that wrong. A lot of variables. And from 25+ yards I'll take the spinning mid height shot all day.

[starsail85]

I'm abit confused , but they both measured same distance from pitch Mark? Also, no idea to ball speed which would have a say in desent angle too?

 

What are you confused about? The question is clear. One rolled more than the other. Which one was it?

 

Nobody said anywhere they rolled out the same. No clue where you're coming up with this

 

Misread one of your posts , human error I'm afraid

 

I can always remember Phil Rodgers saying the high shot finished closer to the pitch mark than the low spinner . Still true?

 

Far from always true. This obviously proves that wrong. A lot of variables. And from 25+ yards I'll take the spinning mid height shot all day.

 

Ah right so the low spinner stopped faster? I couldn't find the result/answer

 

I'm not even sure how you can get the ball not to spin with a lofted wedge unless you are hitting off a juicy lush fairway or semi , off the fairways I'm hitting off in summer everything sticks on the face and spins , from semi I can hit that shot though.....

[iteachgolf]

I'm abit confused , but they both measured same distance from pitch Mark? Also, no idea to ball speed which would have a say in desent angle too?

 

What are you confused about? The question is clear. One rolled more than the other. Which one was it?

 

Nobody said anywhere they rolled out the same. No clue where you're coming up with this

 

Misread one of your posts , human error I'm afraid

 

I can always remember Phil Rodgers saying the high shot finished closer to the pitch mark than the low spinner . Still true?

 

Far from always true. This obviously proves that wrong. A lot of variables. And from 25+ yards I'll take the spinning mid height shot all day.

 

Ah right so the low spinner stopped faster? I couldn't find the result/answer

 

I'm not even sure how you can get the ball not to spin with a lofted wedge unless you are hitting off a juicy lush fairway or semi , off the fairways I'm hitting off in summer everything sticks on the face and spins , from semi I can hit that shot though.....

 

The photos are posted of the shots. Low one rolled 2.5 yards. High one rolled out 5. It's not like it didn't stop. Just not as fast. Low one had 240% more spin

[Silky]

For educational purposes, Dan, do spin loft, dynamic loft, effective loft all refer to the same thing?

Are you hitting down in the bottom swing? What are the effective lofts, AOA, in the two swings?

[PutterKilledTheDream]

For educational purposes, Dan, do spin loft, dynamic loft, effective loft all refer to the same thing?

Are you hitting down in the bottom swing? What are the effective lofts, AOA, in the two swings?

No, those three things you're referencing are all completely different. What is 'effective' loft? Do you mean effective bounce?

He's hitting down absolutely in both shots, just less in the bottom swing and there's less dynamic loft in the bottom swing because the wrists are not cocked nor is his lead wrist extended( cupped) like in the flop swing.

[iteachgolf]

For educational purposes, Dan, do spin loft, dynamic loft, effective loft all refer to the same thing?

Are you hitting down in the bottom swing? What are the effective lofts, AOA, in the two swings?

No, those three things you're referencing are all completely different. What is 'effective' loft? Do you mean effective bounce?

He's hitting down absolutely in both shots, just less in the bottom swing and there's less dynamic loft in the bottom swing because the wrists are not cocked nor is his lead wrist extended( cupped) like in the flop swing.

 

Lead wrist isn't extended in the flop shot at impact. But face is way more open at impact and there's way more dynamic loft. Effective loft and dynamic loft are the same thing.

 

Top shot is about 75* of dynamic loft and AOA was -3ish. Bottom was 50* of dynamic loft and AOA was -2ish. They AOA wasn't that much different. You can overlay the two photos and the arcs pretty much lay on top of each other. Big difference was dynamic loft and contact point on the face

[Silky]

Thanks Putterkilled and Dan.

I just lookup through Google that according through trackman spin loft = dynamic loft - AOA.

So in d-plane terms, spin loft is the angle between the velocity vector of the club head and the normal vector of the club face.

 

In the case on hand here, the spin lofts are about 75-(-3) = 78 in the top shot and 50-(-2) = 52 in the bottom shot.

Normally more spin loft induces more spin, but the bottom shot with less spin loft has much more back spin!?

 

Why??

[iteachgolf]

Thanks Putterkilled and Dan.

I just lookup through Google that according through trackman spin loft = dynamic loft - AOA.

So in d-plane terms, spin loft is the angle between the velocity vector of the club head and the normal vector of the club face.

 

In the case on hand here, the spin lofts are about 75-(-3) = 78 in the top shot and 50-(-2) = 52 in the bottom shot.

Normally more spin loft induces more spin, but the bottom shot with less spin loft has much more back spin!?

 

Why??

 

Anything above 50-52* loses friction. Ball slips on the face rather than grabbing therefore creating less spin. High knuckleball verse lower spinning shot.

[Silky]

Thanks Dan, for great answer, as always.

So in this case, the friction is the traction, or clutching effect. I get it now.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

For educational purposes, Dan, do spin loft, dynamic loft, effective loft all refer to the same thing?

Are you hitting down in the bottom swing? What are the effective lofts, AOA, in the two swings?

No, those three things you're referencing are all completely different. What is 'effective' loft? Do you mean effective bounce?

He's hitting down absolutely in both shots, just less in the bottom swing and there's less dynamic loft in the bottom swing because the wrists are not cocked nor is his lead wrist extended( cupped) like in the flop swing.

 

Lead wrist isn't extended in the flop shot at impact. But face is way more open at impact and there's way more dynamic loft. Effective loft and dynamic loft are the same thing.

 

Top shot is about 75* of dynamic loft and AOA was -3ish. Bottom was 50* of dynamic loft and AOA was -2ish. They AOA wasn't that much different. You can overlay the two photos and the arcs pretty much lay on top of each other. Big difference was dynamic loft and contact point on the face

 

I didn't realize from those sequences you playing a 25 yd shot, thought it was much closer. I play a shot occasionally where I set up wide open, lay the face open and c0ck vertically and swing across my body. The AoA was -8 + on that play and would sent the ball straight up with no spin, but it stops on a dime. That shot requires the wrist being extended and a lot of rotation but it feels like theres very little hit. Requires a certain lie.

@silky- spin loft only helps explain spin to a certain point, however if you threw a ball straight up with no spin, you'd see the decent angle, at close range, is as or more important.

[iteachgolf]

For educational purposes, Dan, do spin loft, dynamic loft, effective loft all refer to the same thing?

Are you hitting down in the bottom swing? What are the effective lofts, AOA, in the two swings?

No, those three things you're referencing are all completely different. What is 'effective' loft? Do you mean effective bounce?

He's hitting down absolutely in both shots, just less in the bottom swing and there's less dynamic loft in the bottom swing because the wrists are not cocked nor is his lead wrist extended( cupped) like in the flop swing.

 

Lead wrist isn't extended in the flop shot at impact. But face is way more open at impact and there's way more dynamic loft. Effective loft and dynamic loft are the same thing.

 

Top shot is about 75* of dynamic loft and AOA was -3ish. Bottom was 50* of dynamic loft and AOA was -2ish. They AOA wasn't that much different. You can overlay the two photos and the arcs pretty much lay on top of each other. Big difference was dynamic loft and contact point on the face

 

I didn't realize from those sequences you playing a 25 yd shot, thought it was much closer. I play a shot occasionally where I set up wide open, lay the face open and c0ck vertically and swing across my body. The AoA was -8 + on that play and would sent the ball straight up with no spin, but it stops on a dime. That shot requires the wrist being extended and a lot of rotation but it feels like theres very little hit. Requires a certain lie.

@silky- spin loft only helps explain spin to a certain point, however if you threw a ball straight up with no spin, you'd see the decent angle, at close range, is as or more important.

 

Wasn't 25 yards. Flew 16 yards

[Silky]

.........

 

@silky- spin loft only helps explain spin to a certain point, however if you threw a ball straight up with no spin, you'd see the decent angle, at close range, is as or more important.

 

Wasn't 25 yards. Flew 16 yards

 

In any case, Putterkilled, no matter how high you threw the ball up, you need to arrest the horizontal speed of the ball, either with soft receptive green or check spin. But check spin is so cool, isn't it? ;)

[jslane57]

Sometime for fun could you do one of these type of comparisons with different balls as well? Like a Prov1 and a Pinnacle Soft or something? Would the soft less spin shot still spin more with a prov1 than the spin shot does with a Pinnicle Soft? Or would the high shot due to less spin and maybe different launch of a surlyn ball not really matter the ball? The tools you have access to are truly amazing. Thanks!

[PutterKilledTheDream]

.........

 

@silky- spin loft only helps explain spin to a certain point, however if you threw a ball straight up with no spin, you'd see the decent angle, at close range, is as or more important.

 

Wasn't 25 yards. Flew 16 yards

 

In any case, Putterkilled, no matter how high you threw the ball up, you need to arrest the horizontal speed of the ball, either with soft receptive green or check spin. But check spin is so cool, isn't it? ;)

Cool? for me no. Spin has always hurt me more than helped especially chipping. I couldn't see Iteachs Flightscope #s from phone, just read earlier in thread something about 25 yds. I'm talking about short distance, inside 10 yds when you're short sided. There's very little ' horizontal speed' from that close, so the spin isn't really needed nearly as much as the angle the ball drops. Even on firm greens.

[iteachgolf]

.........

 

@silky- spin loft only helps explain spin to a certain point, however if you threw a ball straight up with no spin, you'd see the decent angle, at close range, is as or more important.

 

Wasn't 25 yards. Flew 16 yards

 

In any case, Putterkilled, no matter how high you threw the ball up, you need to arrest the horizontal speed of the ball, either with soft receptive green or check spin. But check spin is so cool, isn't it? ;)

Cool? for me no. Spin has always hurt me more than helped especially chipping. I couldn't see Iteachs Flightscope #s from phone, just read earlier in thread something about 25 yds. I'm talking about short distance, inside 10 yds when you're short sided. There's very little ' horizontal speed' from that close, so the spin isn't really needed nearly as much as the angle the ball drops. Even on firm greens.

 

Less than 10 yards trajectory is far more important