Got duped? 1969 Karsten 1 irons (Heel To Balance TTT shafts

[yaquigrande]

First off I missed you all friends. I have been offline for months. I have Lupus and it really got me this time :(. Just glad to be back and feeling a little better and playing golf again. When I couldn't play I couldn't be on here. It devastated me not being able to play and looking at all this amazing stuff made me sad. Anyway I found some Mint ping Karsten 1 irons in the Bay. The shafts look mint heel toe balance TTT shafts and pro only grips with ping man. The soles have no numbers and are flat and not contoured. Everything is spot on but I just realized instead of Patent pend the heads say Pat number. I think the Karsten with a patent number are a later remake right? All the remakes usually have zz lite shafts? These haven't come in the mail yet. Did I get duped? The subject line says 1969. I am almost thinking someone put 1970s heads on some pristine 68 or 69 shafts. I still live the clubs but just wondering your opinions if I need to contact the seller. http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1969-Ping-Karsten-1-Irons-Sw-2iron-Complete-Set-All-Original-/201970064222?txnId=1558081418010

[yaquigrande]

Here we go again, I can't upload my screenshots of the eBay purchase. Getting the dreaded file too large error. Am I limited on file size because I haven't posted in a while?

[yaquigrande]

Here we go again, I can't upload my screenshots of the eBay purchase. Getting the dreaded file too large error. Am I limited on file size because I haven't posted in a while?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1969+karsten+irons&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&biw=424&bih=626&srpd=16531878049426891870&ved=0ahUKEwj1jPTRtM_VAhXr54MKHU1tDuQQnUAIBQ&prds=pid%3A16531878049426891870%2Csgro%3Aiv%2Cmvi%3A0

[Nessism]

Call Ping and ask for the history of the clubs based on the S/N. They have a database and should be able to tell you the specs of the clubs when they left the factory and if they ever came back for repair.

 

Edit: a check of ebay photos show a good many of those clubs have the patent number in the cavity. A mold change took place to add the number. Your clubs look original to me but I'm not an expert on vintage Ping's.

 

Edit 2: check this club. Has the same shaft bands as your clubs and a patent number in the cavity. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PING-TOE-HEEL-BALANCE-KARSTEN-1-3-IRON-17-4-PH-BLACK-DOT-/112501919091?hash=item1a31a30d73:g:yqwAAOSwzaJX6RRZ

[Nessism]

Regarding photos, you need to resize them smaller. Or better yet, use a photo hosting 3rd party like flickr and link the photos there.

 

One trick to resize photos is to open them on your browser and then use the Windows "Snipping Tool" to capture the image.

[yaquigrande]

Thank you so much for the tip on resizing the photos! Will try that tonight at home.

[yaquigrande]

On the pings I read the originals had No dot and we're Pat pend. You can barely see it but in the ebay pic I can see a black dot in the cavity of the 2 iron. Either way the clubs are beautiful and they will go with my vintage ping bag, Ping zero putter and ping chipo. I have the Karsten I woods too. The 2 wood is Pat pend, The rest have a Pat number. I just hope the dates is correct as listed. At least I got a good deal and the weren't 500 bucks or something. Will post a nice pic in the vintage ping bag when they come in the mail. Now all I need is the had covers. That's going to be tough!

[SteveNZ]

+1 on getting in touch with Ping and asking them to check the serial numbers. They are very helpful.

[scruffynick]

I agree, contact ping they get back to you very quickly with everything you need to know. They did that with my ping karsten iii rails. It's very straight forward on their website

[Wriggles]

I don't really know much about Ping clubs, but around 15 years ago, I bought a nice set (8) of Karsten 2's at a local golf store for $79.95, plus tax. The guy wouldn't budge a penny less than marked. I regriped the clubs and have played them off an on since. Because they were in such good shape, I never dreamed they were made in 1975.

 

I would venture to say the pat pending version is the earlier model. I just bought a nice set (9) of Tommy Armour 845s, and they are patent pending, except for the 9I and SW, which are patented. So, I guess, for the purest, with 2 patented clubs, the set would not be authentic. I'm afraid the PGA value website would refuse to honor their $22 trade in quote. I paid $67, including shipping. Nice clubs for playing, I've been playing them all summer. I golfed a few holes with a guy who was sporting the latest Mizunos last week. He was quite amused that I was playing 30 year old clubs. I don't think you can do better than the Karstens or the old TA's.

 

For a nice 10 club set, $150 is reasonable.

 

Glad you're feeling better.

[Guest]

I know this forum has been quiet for a bit but I acquired some ping Karsten I with no dots and pat pend on it

serial number is very low and wonder where I can get some info on them I contacted ping and the serial number I gave them didn’t even come back to a iron set it came back as a putter

[Richard 77]

That makes them really rare? I also have a set of no dots pat pend with a SW I added that has a lower number. I think I’ll call PING and see what I have and I’ll post it here. There is an ad in FB marketplace in my area showing a set for saleaskeing 500. He raised it from 250. Two ads on eBay at 16,000. And 21,000.

[golfunderpar18]

The 2 nut bar Asking prices On eBay have no chance in hell in selling. eBay asking Prices mean nothing as I can post a set for 1 million. Recent sold listings are your gauge. Not a lot of value in k1’s.

[Richard 77]

I messaged that guy when I saw the 16000 and was kinda told to f. Off. He immediately posted the 21000. And it doesn’t have a wedge!

[Richard 77]

I just looked at eBay and the 16 and 21000 ad is gone. I was surprised at how much people are asking for K I irons.

[BIG STU]

One of the reasons I do not mess with most of the Richard Noggins on the bay. It has even gotten to where some of the guys on Persimmon Golf Society are trying to get prices for stuff short of extortion. The only folks I deal with are ones I know from here which some of them are on PGS. Some guy on PGS the other night was trying to sell a set of Muirfield heads for $450 just the heads. I posted I had a set with cord grips and original S-300 shafts I would sell for $200. A guy PMed me and i told him I was shooting a line of BS and if he wanted the seriously I would take $100 plus shipping. He bit and I shipped the next day. I noticed PGS took my comment down and I got a warning PM. Besides I have 3 more sets of Muirfields and 2 sets of VIPs

[golfunderpar18]

I’m sure he’ll repost them to bump up to the top. He’s trying to ask crazy prices and get someone who is uneducated about their history to greatly overpay and think they are rare And Uber valuable clubs which they are not. All of that seller’s postings are ridiculous.

[Richard 77]

there a guy in missouri asking 500. Be lucky to get 150.

[Fellaheen51]

A seller can list items at any price they want in hopes of a sale. Whether it has relevance to real world FMV is immaterial. As long as there is not a deliberate attempt to defraud in the descriptive accompanying a listing (i.e. Mentioning a provenance that is not true). It's upon the buyer to do the research, verification, investigate the FMV of the item being considered for acquisition. If the buyer doesn't perform their due diligence, then it's on them. It's not difficult, lots of resources available today. Very easy with an item like the K1 irons, check eBay has already mentioned.

Old Pings, especially putters, carry some pretty hefty prices. Condition, rarity, provenance can escalate the value well into the four digits. Especially implements that are from the Redwood City era, likely touched by Karsten the Man himself. Condition is always important, but the values are likely established by the rarity factor. One has now entered into the collector's market, where the expectation is that the buyer has more than common knowledge on the item being considered for acquisition. The golf implement collector's market is an entirely different market realm than what we dabble with around here. Better know what you're doing or you're going to get fleeced. By way of example, here's a relatively higher priced auction sale from 7 years ago for original Ping irons. Prototype "Ping 69" Model from 1961, the first year Ping crafted irons (Reportedly, Karsten bought 100 sets of forged blanks from pre-Achusnet Golfcraft):https://www.thegolfauction.com/1961_ping_irons___1_iron_through_pitching_wedge_pl-lot7589.aspx

Furthermore. The descriptives of "rare", "antique", "vintage" get thrown around all too casually in the golf implement realm. Just because an an item is not seen for sale all that often (K1 irons) doesn't make them rare or valuable. I run into hickory shafted clubs with some frequency that are listed as antique, carry an inflated price, and they're nothing more than $5.00 beater Commons. I have a casual acquaintance that is in the antiques business. In that world outside of golf clubs, it's frowned upon by trustworthy antique purveyors to add an "antique" descriptive to an item that doesn't meet a 100 year criteria.

As for eBay. I use it often for acquisitions and liquidations of golf items. It's really the only market available with broad enough exposure to move classic implements. Ever try selling persimmon woods and "vintage" irons on a local market site? You'll likely not get an inquiry. See listings from fellow Classic WRX participants (deejaid and Teevons to name a couple), that are moving some of their stuff. I find items of interest hither and yon, know they have value well beyond the acquisition cost, and flip them on the Bay for a nice ROI. Not as a business, simply as an interesting hobby. Typically as a means to fund other acquisitions that I'm interested in actually using out on a golf course. Sure, not enamored with the eBay/PayPal fees incurred, but that's the cost of doing business.

Nearly every implement in the modern golf bag has been acquired from eBay. At a cost savings from buying at retail. Typically my go to source when I looking to add clubs to the bag. Even some exceptional deals can be found, if you know what you're looking at and the seller doesn't quite know what they are selling. Again, must perform your due diligence, examine pictures closely, read the accompanying descriptive carefully. If the listing appears suspect, taking a pass is the easy and prudent approach.