Tour Player swing speeds

[lets_rahk]

yep. they hit 300yd drives because the fairways are so firm and fast. That's where i think they have gotten to be a little prima donna'ish. they are used to fairways that probably stimp at 7, same speed as your muni green you probably putt at. LOTS of ROLL.

Which makes it all the more impressive when you see tiger fly it 320 onto a short par 4 green.

 

I totally agree with the fairway and muni greens comparison. When I was up at the BMW at coghill those fairways seemed nicer and than the public golf course greens where I live and cut shorter too. On the other hand it seems to me when I watch that male pros tend to carry more and roll less than say lpga which seems to carry less and go for more roll. I would imagine this is for more control as it's hard to predict how that ball is going to roll out 300 yards away from you.

 

In regards to swing speed I think what people have been saying is likely correct. But the biggest thing is most pro's aren't swinging as hard as the can most of the time. When I've been on various launch monitors I can start topping out at 105 when I regularly just swing in the upper 90's but it's not like I hit the ball any further just because when I'm swinging that hard out of my shoes my mechanics start really breaking down and my smash factor becomes horrible. That is an area where pro's really excel I think. They get the most out of their swing, great contact and great ball speeds at whatever speed the do swing at.

[hoganfan924]

Are you talking about Mean or Median? There is a huge difference there. Mean is an average. Median is lining every speed up one by one and choosing the one directly in the middle. Could be a difference of 6-10 mph by changing one word.

 

I'm well aware, which is precisely why I used median. Much faster to look at the Distance for the 95th ranked player on PGAtour.com (288.4 yds) than to calculate the mean of 189 players (which would really be the mean of the mean), which in and of itself could be different than the mean of all drives hit by all players. With such a large sample size, I seriously doubt there's much difference between mean and median in this case, since the data isn't far off from a normal distribution (bell curve). But if you really think so, knock yourself out, the data is all there to calculate it!

 

Well, don't bother. I was able to download into excel. The difference between mean (the average of all players averages = 289 yds.) and median (288.4) is a whopping 0.56 yards, which would equate to about 0.22 MPH of swing speed.

[Zach Heusser]

We did a study a few years ago at the JIm Mclean Golf School, and the average swing speed with a driver on the PGA Tour was 112.

[stasek]

My friend played in BMW Championship pro-am w/ Verplank. Now, my friend is pretty average with his driver - maxes out at 250-260 (in my estimate). What surprised him was that he was every bit as long as Verplank, taking into consideration difference between tees.

BTW, they came in 2nd at -16 :)

[AndrewMe]

that must have been a blast playing on a tour course, with a player in tournament conditions

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

I found this graphic a few years back on the internet and always thought it was pretty interesting....not sure how much weight it holds, but I would venture it is somewhat accurate. Enjoy:

[Swingtheclub]

This thread is amazing makes you wonder thats for sure.

 

I hit some balls a few years back on a mat with some sort of computer thing that measured speed my tired old butt had to go pretty hard to hit 100

 

When I was thirty I was measured at 117 but that was a long time ago (28 years) and I am not sure how accurate it is.

 

 

I can still carry it about I don't know 250 maybe 260 if I catch it if I catch some role 270 downwind sometimes farther

 

I do know at one time I was longer than tour average and was hitting it about the same distance I do now. The first time I ever read stats for the PGA tour the average was 255 the long hitters were in the 280's I think.

 

The game sort of went high tech

[floycota]

Camilo recently said his swing averages 115 and a little more when he needs to step on it. I think he said is upper limit is around 119 or 120.

[AndrewMe]

Camilo recently said his swing averages 115 and a little more when he needs to step on it. I think he said is upper limit is around 119 or 120.

 

Man that sounds reaaalllly low for how far he carries it.... or at least how far annoucers make it seem he carries it....if that is accurate it would make a hell of a statement for optimizing your driver....

 

 

On a side note, allow me to offer this:

 

Professional golf on tv, is one continuous highlight reel. It is the best players THAT WEEK, playing their best... it doesnt show Reteif when he is struggling to shoot 74 and misses the cut. It doest show KJ when he duffs one from 30 yards and it lands short of the green. TV's job is essentially to make the Tour seem so far removed from anyone, anywhere else in the world, and they do a damn good job.... They show driving distances (if the guy hits it perfect), rarely do you see a distance displayed if you can easily see he missed it... It is the media's job to make it seem like every guy out there hits it 300 in the air and carries their 7 iron 200 into the wind.

 

On the other side of the coin, they really ARE capable of all teh things we see them do....

 

My favorite saying even though I do a lot of research and looking into averages is this...

 

If you measure yourself against the average, and succeed, then you are average.

[nkubes12]

Swing speed means little to nothing on how far you can hit it. Compression is the reason that the ball goes for touring professionals. The smash factor is often more reliable than swing speed.

[stevestrike]

it doesnt show Reteif when he is struggling to shoot 74 and misses the cut. It doest show KJ when he duffs one from 30 yards and it lands short of the green.

I, for one, would like to see more of this. I think I could learn a lot more about how KJ/Reteif are able to RECOVER from bad shots and still post a 74. That is something I cannot do. I think that's where the pro's truly shine, is their ability to get back into the game after a bad shot.

[Jim_0068]

Swing speed means little to nothing on how far you can hit it. Compression is the reason that the ball goes for touring professionals. The smash factor is often more reliable than swing speed.

 

I used to think like you too but i got smarter thanks to scientists looking at impact dynamics and essentially impact isn't as complicated as people "want it" to be.

 

If the clubhead is traveling at 100mph (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) and you make contact on the sweetspot of the club (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) you will achieve very near a 1.50 smash factor and 150mph of ball speed if the clubhead in question is at max cor (which some are and some are not which can result in small variances in smash factors).

 

Doesn't matter how hard you "pull it" or "push it" or "flip your wrist", ball only knows how fast it just got struck and if it was struck in the sweetspot of a driver at max cor you will achieve a ball speed 1.5 times the clubhead speed it was struck at.

 

:)

[Young04]

Swing speed means little to nothing on how far you can hit it. Compression is the reason that the ball goes for touring professionals. The smash factor is often more reliable than swing speed.

 

I used to think like you too but i got smarter thanks to scientists looking at impact dynamics and essentially impact isn't as complicated as people "want it" to be.

 

If the clubhead is traveling at 100mph (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) and you make contact on the sweetspot of the club (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) you will achieve very near a 1.50 smash factor and 150mph of ball speed if the clubhead in question is at max cor (which some are and some are not which can result in small variances in smash factors).

 

Doesn't matter how hard you "pull it" or "push it" or "flip your wrist", ball only knows how fast it just got struck and if it was struck in the sweetspot of a driver at max cor you will achieve a ball speed 1.5 times the clubhead speed it was struck at.

 

:)

 

that's true, but i think you're both forgetting about angle of attack, etc. that can make rather significant difference in ultimate distance even if smash factor is 1.5. awhile ago, someone on this forum posted a good topic studying why a low handicappers "good" 5 iron swing goes 10 yards less than a tour players "perfect" swing, even though both were at the same clubhead speed and both hit the sweet spot of the club.

[Swingtheclub]

that's true, but i think you're both forgetting about angle of attack, etc. that can make rather significant difference in ultimate distance even if smash factor is 1.5. awhile ago, someone on this forum posted a good topic studying why a low handicappers "good" 5 iron swing goes 10 yards less than a tour players "perfect" swing, even though both were at the same clubhead speed and both hit the sweet spot of the club.

 

 

Maybe because the pro has his five iron jacked to the loft of the amateurs three iron?

[lasy]

If those are factual Clubhead speeds then I would stand corrected. At least I wasnt too far off with the numbers.

 

Don't beat yourself up too much =). You propably didn't take into acount that tour players have their shafts, clubheads, etc. customized for maximum accuracy, not maximum distance. They'll want to keep the ball low for maximum control even though a higher launch angle would propably give them more distance.

 

Here's another curious fact. The avarage driver shaft lenght on tour is 44.5" while your avarage player is being sold drivers with shaft lenghs up to 45.5" even 46".

[lasy]

Maybe because the pro has his five iron jacked to the loft of the amateurs three iron?

 

I'd say it's the other way around if anything. For example a Titleist 755 5-iron (widely used on tour) has a loft of 28 deg. while a TM r7 5-iron has a loft of 25 deg. (=titleist 755 4-iron. This is part of the reason people complain that titleist irons are short lol.). I see no reason for a tour player to have his irons bent out of shape just to hit it farther than it would appear.

 

The reason some tour players do hit the ball longer is simply angle of attack. They achieve a lower dynamic loft by having their hands far ahead the clubface on impact. This takes power. There was some sort of demonstration of this on the broadcast from The Brarclays.

[swanry30]

interesting debate. i believe that swing speed is a major factor in distance - however smash factor is all over the map for some of these guys. under control i can swing about 105 (a realistic 85% swing), but my SF is around 1.6. that is the beauty of golf - different swings, produce different numbers, which produce different results. swing speed could be the same between players with drastically different results.

[Sakman]

where would ernie be at ?

 

 

[chrisu]

Camilo recently said his swing averages 115 and a little more when he needs to step on it. I think he said is upper limit is around 119 or 120.

 

Man that sounds reaaalllly low for how far he carries it.... or at least how far annoucers make it seem he carries it....if that is accurate it would make a hell of a statement for optimizing your driver....

 

 

On a side note, allow me to offer this:

 

Professional golf on tv, is one continuous highlight reel. It is the best players THAT WEEK, playing their best... it doesnt show Reteif when he is struggling to shoot 74 and misses the cut. It doest show KJ when he duffs one from 30 yards and it lands short of the green. TV's job is essentially to make the Tour seem so far removed from anyone, anywhere else in the world, and they do a damn good job.... They show driving distances (if the guy hits it perfect), rarely do you see a distance displayed if you can easily see he missed it... It is the media's job to make it seem like every guy out there hits it 300 in the air and carries their 7 iron 200 into the wind.

 

On the other side of the coin, they really ARE capable of all teh things we see them do....

 

My favorite saying even though I do a lot of research and looking into averages is this...

 

If you measure yourself against the average, and succeed, then you are average.

 

 

100% dead on. really the only bad shots you will see on tv is by a leader and on the last few holes. Its too bad, since one of the biggest differences in tour pro's and the rest is their ability to save par after "the bad shot".

[ccgolfer37]

IT was reacently published in one of the major golf magazines..golf world, golf digest, golf...I dont rememeber exactly which one, but it said, that Tigers average swing speed with his driver is 124 and average carry is between 290-300. It also said that he could top out in the mid 130's.

[AndrewMe]

however smash factor is all over the map for some of these guys. under control i can swing about 105 (a realistic 85% swing), but my SF is around 1.6. same between players with drastically different results.

 

Just for information, a smash factor of 1.6 is completely impossible. Wherever you got that number from was wrong.

[swanry30]

however smash factor is all over the map for some of these guys. under control i can swing about 105 (a realistic 85% swing), but my SF is around 1.6. same between players with drastically different results.

 

Just for information, a smash factor of 1.6 is completely impossible. Wherever you got that number from was wrong.

 

explain how it is impossible... trackman - redtail avg. smash factor 1.58 with 15 balls.

[AndrewMe]

however smash factor is all over the map for some of these guys. under control i can swing about 105 (a realistic 85% swing), but my SF is around 1.6. same between players with drastically different results.

 

Just for information, a smash factor of 1.6 is completely impossible. Wherever you got that number from was wrong.

 

explain how it is impossible... trackman - redtail avg. smash factor 1.58 with 15 balls.

 

How is it impossible... because Sergio/Tiger/Phil average smash is circa 1.48

 

SF of 1.6 is not possible via physics... the club face cannot rebound and produce a smash of 1.6

[swanry30]

i'm suprised you didn't bring "without pictures this thread is pointless" to the table. let's agree to disagree. i live in at redtail and am on the trackman quite a bit, they have properly set their computers - what more can i say?

[Jim_0068]

Swing speed means little to nothing on how far you can hit it. Compression is the reason that the ball goes for touring professionals. The smash factor is often more reliable than swing speed.

 

I used to think like you too but i got smarter thanks to scientists looking at impact dynamics and essentially impact isn't as complicated as people "want it" to be.

 

If the clubhead is traveling at 100mph (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) and you make contact on the sweetspot of the club (whether you're a tour pro or joe hacker) you will achieve very near a 1.50 smash factor and 150mph of ball speed if the clubhead in question is at max cor (which some are and some are not which can result in small variances in smash factors).

 

Doesn't matter how hard you "pull it" or "push it" or "flip your wrist", ball only knows how fast it just got struck and if it was struck in the sweetspot of a driver at max cor you will achieve a ball speed 1.5 times the clubhead speed it was struck at.

 

:)

 

that's true, but i think you're both forgetting about angle of attack, etc. that can make rather significant difference in ultimate distance even if smash factor is 1.5. awhile ago, someone on this forum posted a good topic studying why a low handicappers "good" 5 iron swing goes 10 yards less than a tour players "perfect" swing, even though both were at the same clubhead speed and both hit the sweet spot of the club.

 

yes angle of attack can make a difference on LAUNCH CONDITIONS but not BALL SPEED which is what i was referring to. You can tweak your angle of attach, loft, etc etc which will change again, the launch conditions, but the ball speed will stay the same.

[Young04]

i'm suprised you didn't bring "without pictures this thread is pointless" to the table. let's agree to disagree. i live in at redtail and am on the trackman quite a bit, they have properly set their computers - what more can i say?

 

1.6 smash factor? can i buy your driver off of you?

 

i don't doubt what you saw on your machine. i doubt it's veracity. my understanding is that it's impossoble to get a smash factor that high with today's equipment.

[hoganfan924]

i'm suprised you didn't bring "without pictures this thread is pointless" to the table. let's agree to disagree. i live in at redtail and am on the trackman quite a bit, they have properly set their computers - what more can i say?

 

1.6 smash factor? can i buy your driver off of you?

 

i don't doubt what you saw on your machine. i doubt it's veracity. my understanding is that it's impossoble to get a smash factor that high with today's equipment.

 

That trackman is not giving accurate readings. Here is a great article on this subject:

 

http://probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI%20N...ews02-12-04.htm

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

The physics of the interaction between club and ball is quite well understood. At play are the laws of momentum and energy. A given player (let's say you) is capable of swinging a club with a some maximum speed. The more massive the club, tthe slower will be this maximum speed. The speed of the ball is a result of the mass of the clubhead and its speed. So, as the mass increases, so will the resulting ball speed. But, since the clubhead is more massive, its maximum speed is less. There is actually an optimum mass for each golfer that produces the greatest ball speed. For most golfers, that mass is about 200 grams. A physics equation that determines the resulting ball speed is:

 

V = U*(1+e)/(1+m/M)

 

where U = clubhead speed, m = mass of ball, M = mass of clubhead

 

In the past 10 to 15 years, club and ball manufacturers have made great leaps in increasing the e of the collision due mainly to the hollow, metal faced drivers whose faces can "spring back" upon collision. So much so that the USGA has put in place a legal maximum which is about 0.83. Club testers have found that e decreases with increased clubhead speed. Tiger Woods' drives, therefore, are not as efficient as yours or mine. He makes up for this by having significantly more clubhead speed.

 

Let's take the example that your clubhead speed is 110 mph (48.9 m/s), which means you are a relatively long hitter. A typical value of e (exact value depends on the club) would be about 0.83. According to the equation above, the resulting ball speed (assuming a solid hit) would be:

 

V = 110*(1+0.83)/(1+46/190) = 110*1.47 = 162 mph

 

assuming a 190 g clubhead hitting a 46 gram ball. The ball speed ends up being

1.47 times the original clubhead speed.

 

So what would it take to achieve a 1.6 smash factor?

 

Let's solve for M with a SS of 100 mph, COR of 0.83 and a ball mass of 46 grams. I created a formula in excel and it would take a 320 gram clubhead. So did you put 120 grams of lead tape on your FT5? Good luck swinging that at 100 mph!

 

I'll assume you didn't put 120 grams of lead tape on your FT5 so lets solve for COR using a 200 gram head weight:

 

It would require a COR of 0.968

 

So either you have an ultra heavy clubhead, a non-conforming one (or non conforming ball), a combination of both, or the trackman data is wrong. Which one do you think it is?

[swanry30]

when we intsalled the tour clock the head weight was heavier - but obviously not that heavy :) like i said before... i'm just passing along information that shows up on a plasma after i lace into one. i'm not claiming to be a physicist, or better than TIGER/PHIL/SERGIO, just reading numbers - i have no control of trackman. all of that being said the FT-5 and Burner are bloody hot off the face.

[swanry30]

UPDATED TRACKMAN INFO:

 

so all of this got me curious to why the numbers were off so i made the trek to redtail to confirm or disprove the previous readings. here were the results...

 

SWING SPEED AVG: 113.8

BALL SPEED AVG: 167.28

SMASH FACTOR AVG: 1.47

 

highest smash factor was 1.49 - but could not break the glass ceiling of 1.5!

 

since i can read numbers off of a screen the only conclusion i can logically arrive at is the trackman was not properly calibrated.

 

the testing was done with my current driver - see signature below.

[chrisu]

i'm suprised you didn't bring "without pictures this thread is pointless" to the table. let's agree to disagree. i live in at redtail and am on the trackman quite a bit, they have properly set their computers - what more can i say?

 

1.6 smash factor? can i buy your driver off of you?

 

i don't doubt what you saw on your machine. i doubt it's veracity. my understanding is that it's impossoble to get a smash factor that high with today's equipment.

 

That trackman is not giving accurate readings. Here is a great article on this subject:

 

http://probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI%20N...ews02-12-04.htm

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

The physics of the interaction between club and ball is quite well understood. At play are the laws of momentum and energy. A given player (let's say you) is capable of swinging a club with a some maximum speed. The more massive the club, tthe slower will be this maximum speed. The speed of the ball is a result of the mass of the clubhead and its speed. So, as the mass increases, so will the resulting ball speed. But, since the clubhead is more massive, its maximum speed is less. There is actually an optimum mass for each golfer that produces the greatest ball speed. For most golfers, that mass is about 200 grams. A physics equation that determines the resulting ball speed is:

 

V = U*(1+e)/(1+m/M)

 

where U = clubhead speed, m = mass of ball, M = mass of clubhead

 

In the past 10 to 15 years, club and ball manufacturers have made great leaps in increasing the e of the collision due mainly to the hollow, metal faced drivers whose faces can "spring back" upon collision. So much so that the USGA has put in place a legal maximum which is about 0.83. Club testers have found that e decreases with increased clubhead speed. Tiger Woods' drives, therefore, are not as efficient as yours or mine. He makes up for this by having significantly more clubhead speed.

 

Let's take the example that your clubhead speed is 110 mph (48.9 m/s), which means you are a relatively long hitter. A typical value of e (exact value depends on the club) would be about 0.83. According to the equation above, the resulting ball speed (assuming a solid hit) would be:

 

V = 110*(1+0.83)/(1+46/190) = 110*1.47 = 162 mph

 

assuming a 190 g clubhead hitting a 46 gram ball. The ball speed ends up being

1.47 times the original clubhead speed.

 

So what would it take to achieve a 1.6 smash factor?

 

Let's solve for M with a SS of 100 mph, COR of 0.83 and a ball mass of 46 grams. I created a formula in excel and it would take a 320 gram clubhead. So did you put 120 grams of lead tape on your FT5? Good luck swinging that at 100 mph!

 

I'll assume you didn't put 120 grams of lead tape on your FT5 so lets solve for COR using a 200 gram head weight:

 

It would require a COR of 0.968

 

So either you have an ultra heavy clubhead, a non-conforming one (or non conforming ball), a combination of both, or the trackman data is wrong. Which one do you think it is?

 

 

WOW awsome article...