Strong loft rumors

[clinkinfo]

are they true?

This may be a stupid question but I've searched the board trying to find a discussion or answer and I can't.

For as long as I can remember, I've always heard this rumor floating around that some tour players use clubs that have significantly stronger lofts. Supposedly this was to help them keep the trajectory down and/or to optimize distance. For example, I've heard multiple times that Phil has much stronger lofts in his irons than advertised or normal in a stock set.

Anyway, is there any truth to this or are most guys using pretty stock lofts on their clubs? I'd love to have a more intelligent response to the folks who bring this topic up and I really have no idea.

Thanks all!

[Lord Thomas]

It depends on the player. Tiger uses a pitching wedge that is 50* (I believe), whereas Phil's pitching wedge is closer to 45*, because he likes to hit his shots lower. There are some players who are like Tiger, with "old" lofts, some players who use strong lofts like Phil uses, and some players who use something in between.

 

-Thomas

[kkhere]

these loft differences also make it hard to compare how long players hit their irons. If one player has strong lofts while another has neutral one player's 7 iron may be equivalent to anothers 8.

[DemolitionMan]

I don't practice much, but when I do, I spend most of the time trying to hit PW 100 yards with a near full swing. After seeing what kind of tempo is required, now I am thinking it would be a fun experiment tp bend all my irons two degrees stronger than tell myself to swing with a slower, smoother tempo for all my iron shots.

 

BTW, lots of tour pros have stronger lofts for various reasons.

[ForTourUseOnly]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

[Johnny]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

I dont find that too hard to believe actually

[Langlands]

Jesper Parnevik is another with "weaker" lofts on his irons, he sets it up this way as he hits down on the ball with his irons, effectively de-lofting them. Not sure if that's why Mickelson does it.

[kkhere]

parnevik is also one of the longest iron players on tour

[mike0814]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

technically that is correct, but guys like tiger/sergio/parnevik really deloft their irons a ton at impact, turning a pw at 50* into a much stronger club ... it's why those type of guys have weak modern lofts. all pros have their hands well ahead of the clubface at impact, but not too many as much as those mentioned above. this is the reason that tw/sg/jp hit their irons so far.

 

effectively tiger turns his short iron into a similar loft as phil's much sronger one via technique.

[clinkinfo]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

technically that is correct, but guys like tiger/sergio/parnevik really deloft their irons a ton at impact, turning a pw at 50* into a much stronger club ... it's why those type of guys have weak modern lofts. all pros have their hands well ahead of the clubface at impact, but not too many as much as those mentioned above. this is the reason that tw/sg/jp hit their irons so far.

 

effectively tiger turns his short iron into a similar loft as phil's much sronger one via technique.

63862[/snapback]

 

 

 

So would that imply that as amateurs if we are unable to deloft our clubs in a similar fashion in the swing we should follow the Phil model and strengthen our club lofts? Are there playing downsides to that (aside from the obvious bounce angle changes)?

[TMfreak]

Hi Guys,

 

Another factor is the style of iron. As we all know blade players, such as Tiger, Goosen & Sergio (among the most awsome iron strikers) are playing an iron with a higher centre of gravity and cavity back players such as Phil, are playing with a lower centre of gravity in their clubs.

 

It seems 'blades' usually have more loft than 'cavities' to balance the COG for each iron style. Personally, having played a full blade (MP-29), a full cavity (LT) and a 'players' cavity (300) I like the higher COG/weaker loft option, and feel my distances and trajectories and accuracy is better, but I don't need help to get it up (so to speak). My 300's give me the forgiveness of my LT's but with the distance, feel and trajectory of my MP-29's - perfect.

 

You will notice some new model 'game enhancement' irons, such as TM r7, come in real strong lofts to balance the very low COG, I think the PW in this set is around 45*!! If the PW in this set was 48*-50*, combined with the very low COG I imagine it would go straight up in the air, probably Lob Wedge distance...........

[maguy1970]

Just throwing in my .02, but haven't we all learned from launch monitors at least that launch angle is the most important number, and that is a product of club loft, angle of attack, swing speed, ball speed and so many other factors I am leaving out? I have a buddy who has a strong set, and I get quite sick of hearing "you're hitting 8, I'm hitting a 9..." So what, my index is 8.2 or so and yours is 15.something, so screw. Like I said, just my .02...

[Onebulldogs]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

Actually, that is not true. The reason "longer" iron will travel farther then a shorter iron is a function of shaft lenght and loft. Tigers 9 iron will have a longer shaft then Phil's PW. As a result, one would expect it to go farther then Phil's PW despite the slightly weaker loft.

[jzatl04]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

Actually, that is not true. The reason "longer" iron will travel farther then a shorter iron is a function of shaft lenght and loft. Tigers 9 iron will have a longer shaft then Phil's PW. As a result, one would expect it to go farther then Phil's PW despite the slightly weaker loft.

63991[/snapback]

 

That would be true in most cases, but Phil plays +3/4" irons and Tiger plays "old" specs in his irons (1/4" or so less than today's standard). At least thats the info that's been given to us from Phil, Tiger and their respective manufacturers. So Phil's PW is allegedly longer than Tiger's 9 iron.

[nikkthestikk]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

technically that is correct, but guys like tiger/sergio/parnevik really deloft their irons a ton at impact, turning a pw at 50* into a much stronger club ... it's why those type of guys have weak modern lofts. all pros have their hands well ahead of the clubface at impact, but not too many as much as those mentioned above. this is the reason that tw/sg/jp hit their irons so far.

 

effectively tiger turns his short iron into a similar loft as phil's much sronger one via technique.

63862[/snapback]

 

 

 

So would that imply that as amateurs if we are unable to deloft our clubs in a similar fashion in the swing we should follow the Phil model and strengthen our club lofts? Are there playing downsides to that (aside from the obvious bounce angle changes)?

63950[/snapback]

 

How is it that you amateurs are "unable" to deloft the clubs. Are you admitting to defeat or do you just not want to play like any of the above mentioned superstars?

 

Don't change your lofts, change your technique. The pulling on the club move is not a hard one, and only requires the resolve to try it and keep trying it until you find yourself a better golfer...

 

No disrespect intended. "It's not the arrow, its the indian"

[Extreme Firepower]

I've noticed since the mid 90's that mid/high handicappers are hitting less stick into greens but what is also noticable is their ability to stop the ball on the green is diminishing. Strong lofts give them extra distance but to the detriment of holding greens and distance control. The balls they are using also makes a difference to this

 

I switched to blades from eye 2's a few years and I still hit towering iron shots (with PX shafts). Distance is purely a function of clun head speed, John Daly delofts the club a ton but still hits the ball a mile high, due to his spin conditions. In an ideal world, the harder you can swing the iron on the steepest angle of attack with control is the best set up regardless of loft. Very few on tour can hit a 3 iron, 230-240 yards with drop and stop.. those that do, VJ, Tiger, Garcia etc hit the ball hard with a lot of spin. The rest, well anything less than a five iron is scuttling through the green to the back fringe

 

Amateurs can play the macho game with Callaway lofts but in short they lack club head speed, have poor contact and a rubbish angle of attack so what loft they use is incidental, the Pros on the other hand, makes a difference.

[clinkinfo]

 

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50* 

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green 

63797[/snapback]

 

 

technically that is correct, but guys like tiger/sergio/parnevik really deloft their irons a ton at impact, turning a pw at 50* into a much stronger club ... it's why those type of guys have weak modern lofts. all pros have their hands well ahead of the clubface at impact, but not too many as much as those mentioned above. this is the reason that tw/sg/jp hit their irons so far.

 

effectively tiger turns his short iron into a similar loft as phil's much sronger one via technique.

63862[/snapback]

 

 

 

So would that imply that as amateurs if we are unable to deloft our clubs in a similar fashion in the swing we should follow the Phil model and strengthen our club lofts? Are there playing downsides to that (aside from the obvious bounce angle changes)?

63950[/snapback]

 

How is it that you amateurs are "unable" to deloft the clubs. Are you admitting to defeat or do you just not want to play like any of the above mentioned superstars?

 

Don't change your lofts, change your technique. The pulling on the club move is not a hard one, and only requires the resolve to try it and keep trying it until you find yourself a better golfer...

 

No disrespect intended. "It's not the arrow, its the indian"

64139[/snapback]

 

 

Um, you may have missed a few posts above or maybe the word amateur threw you off. I suspect that all good player will deloft the club at impact, that's not the point. The conversation was actually talking about how certain pros can deloft more than others. That was part of the presumption about Phils lofts begin stronger, his swing doesn't deloft the same as the others mentioned. Not all swings, even at the pro level, can deloft the club like the specific players mentioned.

 

So the question was, is their a benifit to follow the route that Phil takes and change the lofts if your swing isn't delofting like the other players mentioned.

[mike0814]

it is true that phils PW is 45* and tigers 9 iron is 46* where his PW is 50*

 

this means that whenever phil hits a PW and tiger hits a PW from the same spot tiger is really hitting less club into the green

63797[/snapback]

 

technically that is correct, but guys like tiger/sergio/parnevik really deloft their irons a ton at impact, turning a pw at 50* into a much stronger club ... it's why those type of guys have weak modern lofts. all pros have their hands well ahead of the clubface at impact, but not too many as much as those mentioned above. this is the reason that tw/sg/jp hit their irons so far.

 

effectively tiger turns his short iron into a similar loft as phil's much sronger one via technique.

63862[/snapback]

 

 

 

So would that imply that as amateurs if we are unable to deloft our clubs in a similar fashion in the swing we should follow the Phil model and strengthen our club lofts? Are there playing downsides to that (aside from the obvious bounce angle changes)?

63950[/snapback]

 

How is it that you amateurs are "unable" to deloft the clubs. Are you admitting to defeat or do you just not want to play like any of the above mentioned superstars?

 

Don't change your lofts, change your technique. The pulling on the club move is not a hard one, and only requires the resolve to try it and keep trying it until you find yourself a better golfer...

 

No disrespect intended. "It's not the arrow, its the indian"

64139[/snapback]

 

 

... agreed. i've seen plenty of amateurs who deloft plenty. really depends on whether a player is truly scooping shots and losing both a penetrating trajectory and spin.

 

there's no reason why anyone needs to be able to hit irons as far as sergio or tiger ... trajectory control and spin control is another matter ... to be a good short iron player one needs to have those. almost all pros really trap their short irons for control ... it's not about being able to hit your pw 140.