feeling the release. . .

thenewbie · October 14, 2007

thoughts on getting that club back to square?!

When I was first starting out, I got into the bad habit of closing down the face to negate a slice. I've slowly but surely gotten out of that bad habit over time, though I still have trouble with mid and long irons, losing them right much of the time from leaving the face open. basically the only thing I'm really working on right now is getting the face back to square. I find myself purposely casting the club, so I have "time" to get the club square again, but the last thing I want to do is develop more bad habits I'll have to get rid of later. its also messing with my contact.

I've been working with two swing thoughts to get the club released back to square, one is from david leadbetter. . .its about releasing the right (rear) hand into the ball, as if your throwing a ball underhand. I've found that I tend to get a bit off on my tempo with this thought.

the second is Tiger inspired. . .using the left (leading) hand and turning over the wrist so that the back of the hand is facing the target at impact. This one works pretty well, although I feel like its "messing" with my release. Though maybe this is just how a release is supposed to feel? I suppose that "messing" with my release is the point, huh?

how do you guys feel about these swing thoughts? any other suggestion on "feel thoughts" for a proper release to get the face back to square?

all thoughts and ideas are much appreciated. ;)

hoganfan924 · October 14, 2007

Sounds like your grip might be too weak. A weak grip encourages casting in order to square the face. Or you aren't rotating through impact well and your shoulders are too square to the target line at impact which also encourages casting or a flip release to square the face.

thenewbie · October 14, 2007

Sounds like your grip might be too weak. A weak grip encourages casting in order to square the face. Or you aren't rotating through impact well and your shoulders are too square to the target line at impact which also encourages casting or a flip release to square the face.

I wouldn't call my grip overly strong, but definetly not weak. I have weakened it ever-so-slightly to fight a snap hook. . .turns out the snap hook was from closing the damn face. some things seem stupidly obvious once you figure them out. ;)

how do you feel the shoulders should be oriented in relation to the target line at impact? open or closed?

I've worked hard on getting that perfect dollar sized divot, and I've got it down pretty well, but I always seem to leave the long irons open.

edit; if it makes a difference, I generally set up with my irons slightly forward of center, maybe 2 or 3 balls forward. sometimes less or more, depending on desired trajectory.

hoganfan924 · October 14, 2007

Sounds like your grip might be too weak. A weak grip encourages casting in order to square the face. Or you aren't rotating through impact well and your shoulders are too square to the target line at impact which also encourages casting or a flip release to square the face.

I wouldn't call my grip overly strong, but definetly not weak. I have weakened it ever-so-slightly to fight a snap hook. . .turns out the snap hook was from closing the damn face. some things seem stupidly obvious once you figure them out. ;)

how do you feel the shoulders should be oriented in relation to the target line at impact? open or closed?

I've worked hard on getting that perfect dollar sized divot, and I've got it down pretty well, but I always seem to leave the long irons open.

The degree of openness of the shoulders depends on the type of swing you use. If you have a rotational "1 plane" type of swing the shoulders will be more open than a 2 plane. PGA tour average was measured in the 1990's and my recollecton is 26 deg. open at impact. One planers are as much as 40 or 50 deg. open. Have to be careful in assessing based on video though as DTL video makes the shoulders look more closed than they really are. Down the line from in front of the player is more telling (see video in my sig. for the difference - I show both views). If you are sure you're squaring up short irons (and not just hitting a wipe) but can't square up longer clubs, the most likely cause is your ball position and weight distribution at set-up. The longer the club, the more forward of center your ball position needs to be and the more your weight should be distributed toward your rear foot at address. Longer clubs need more time and distance to square up and making sure you're not playing them too far back in the stance and proper weight distribution in vital. I highly encourage you to experiment with both to find out the combination that works for you. For me, 60% on my left foot and centered ball position works for 8 to W, but 6 iron I'm 50/50 and driver 45/55, roughly. I don't change ball position relative to my left instep but stance gets wider the longer the club. For driver, I move the ball forward a few inches. If your hands feel like they're actively squaring the face, that's trouble (not repeatable)

Ezgolfer · October 14, 2007

I have the same problem . My swing video clearly showed i was coming over the top and my right elbow was falling away from my body on the downswing . I was told to think about feel like hitting a draw to make me come from inside to negate the OTT move . It is working for me ocassional pull hooks and slices but it is nice to see a draw , which i have never done . Also look for you alignment as well. I am no swing guru, just explaining what i am going through .

The only reason i cannot hit long irons is this . I just love to see a 2 iron fly 230 when pured , now starting to happen often.

This problem seem to become obvious in 2-5 irons , but is hardly noticeable in 6-pw.

Also search video for pump up drill. People also receommend brain manzella's "confession of a former flipper ".I just downloaded and will watch it tonight.

thenewbie · October 14, 2007

thats exactly the problem. . .I don't want to feel like I have to actively "turn over" my hands in order to square the club. I only do that if I want to hit a big draw, to get out of trouble or get around a tree. thats why I'm working on the release. facing the back of my wrist towards the target doesn't really feel to "active" to be repeatable with some reps.

next time I'm out I'm going to try to be conscious of my shoulders through impact, I usually only think about them while going back. I can see how getting them a little more open through the ball could help square it up.

I do get my shorter clubs squared up more often, I have been known to get some fade going though. I usually aim for a slight fade with most clubs. . .I play a power cut with my driver most of the time, so I'm used to setting up just slightly open to the target.

I'm usually 50/50 weight distrubution at addres wtih every club, though I try to have more weight on the front foot at impact.

so now I'm thinking at the range I'm going to try to be a little open at impact and leave a smidge more weight on my back foot at impact.

I would still love to hear ideas from anyone else, and thanks hoganfan!

oh yeah. . .I'm between one and two plane. did one plane for a while, but started to lift the club just slightly as it feels MUCH better to me at the top (I have limited flexability from a heavy build and a bum left wrist from a football injury).

edit; bad gramar. . .haha

thenewbie · October 14, 2007

I have the same problem . My swing video clearly showed i was coming over the top and my right elbow was falling away from my body on the downswing . I was told to think about feel like hitting a draw to make me come from inside to negate the OTT move . It is working for me ocassional pull hooks and slices but it is nice to see a draw , which i have never done . Also look for you alignment as well. I am no swing guru, just explaining what i am going through .
The only reason i cannot hit long irons is this . I just love to see a 2 iron fly 230 when pured , now starting to happen often.
This problem seem to become obvious in 2-5 irons , but is hardly noticeable in 6-pw.

Also search video for pump up drill. People also receommend brain manzella's "confession of a former flipper ".I just downloaded and will watch it tonight.

I've fought some over-the-top action from time to time, as we all have. for me though, the problem is definetly leaving the face open, as opposed to problems with the swing plane. I've actually learned to harness the power of the OTT move. . .used it to hit a big slice with my 5 wood to get out of trouble on more than one occasion. ;)

hoganfan924 · October 14, 2007

oh yeah. . .I'm between one and two plane. did one plane for a while, but started to lift the club just slightly as it feels MUCH better to me at the top (I have limited flexability from a heavy build and a bum left wrist from a football injury).

I don't consider the backswing all that important to the classification of 1PS or 2PS. How you release the club is far more important. For example, Furyk has an incredibly upright backswing, but a classic one plane release as do a large number of the best ballstrikers in the history of the game. It sounds to me like you have a 2 plane type of release where the hip and shoulder rotation stall before impact and the hands pass the body and the arms cross over after impact. That imparts a lot of face rotation through the impact zone and can lead to every type of miss. I'd encourage you to study DTL swingvision clips of Furyk, David Toms and Garcia (all can be found on youtube). See what their Hips, shoulders, hands and arms are doing through impact. Compare that action to your own video. I'll bet you see a big difference. Then notice what their clubface angle is a few feet past impact. Compare to a 2 plane releaser like Colin Montgomerie. Compare to yours.

thenewbie · October 14, 2007

It sounds to me like you have a 2 plane type of release where the hip and shoulder rotation stall before impact and the hands pass the body and the arms cross over after impact. That imparts a lot of face rotation through the impact zone and can lead to every type of miss.

I don't feel like I do that. and my misses are actually pretty consistent. lately its been a very consistent 10-15 yard fade with the longer clubs, except driver (stupid big bertha's closed face leads to inconsistency for me). I know for a fact that my hips are open and rotating through the ball, its something I've worked hard at. my shoulders, I honeslty haven't thought about at the point in the swing.

in all honesty, I can't say I do or don't do anything without any video of my swing. I've never video'd it, but I'm sure my actuall swing is quite different from what I think it is.

hoganfan924 · October 14, 2007

I've never video'd it, but I'm sure my actuall swing is quite different from what I think it is.

If you're really serious about improving your swing (sounds like you are), that's a huge mistake. You should be taking video regularly, at least every other time you hit balls IMO. I'm friends with a local pro who's one of the best club pro's in the country and he probably doesn't hit more than 20 or 30 balls without videotaping his swing, ever. And guess what, his swing doesn't get out of shape. Very consistent. It's a great lesson for the newbie(s). A guy that's been playing golf professionally for 30 years and he works on his swing every day and every day with video.

Trust me, you'll probably be shocked (and disappointed) the first time you see your swing on video. Mac O'grady told me that the camcorder is the golf instructors microscope and most valuable tool. Get one and use it!!!