I need a ruling

[Adam Brewer]

Eagle or not?

so i went to walk 9 today, and it was by far the greatest 9 yet.
on the par four 7th hole, a miracle occurred. the first half of the 7th fairway is uphill, then the second half is downhill leading to a mid-sized green.
i didn't quite get my drive as far as i would've liked to (i bet everyone could agree that that statement could be applied to every shot one hits :P ), leaving my ball off the fairway to the right and still on the uphill section of the hole. i then proceeded to hit my 5 iron. my first shot looked like it went too far, so i dropped a second and hit it slightly softer. as i was lining up my putt (doing a complete 360 around the ball and cup), i noticed MY FIRST BALL IN THE CUP!!! but i wasn't (and still not) sure if it would count seems how i did hit a second ball, so i went ahead and putted out just in case i was wrong.
was it an eagle 2 or something else?
please help!

[goshoxgo]

It was an Eagle. You were done playing the hole when the 2nd shot went in. Anything after that is meaningless.

[Adam Brewer]

thank you!

in that case, that means that i shot a 41 overall.

remind me to kiss my 5 iron the next time i play ;)

[akanacl]

Isn't the first ball considered out of play when he plays a second ball. He didn't declare his second a provisional. He just said he thought "it went too far". I don't know much about the rules...but that doesn't sound right, even if the ball was in the hole.

[atlanta golfer]

Post above is correct of course, you had an eagle two the second the ball went in the cup, anything after that is meaningless. Congratulations on that!

 

However, not to be a rules nazi or anything, but when you played the second ball, whether you were with playing partners or by yourself, it might be useful to declare or at least think to yourself if you are solo, "provisional in case the first ball is out of bounds or lost". When you said "the first ball seemed like it went too far" just seemed a little vague. Just something to think about if and when you get into a real competition. This will keep you out of trouble or disputes.

[hbear]

Yup Eagle.

Once the ball is in the cup...hole is deemed finished.

[atlanta golfer]

akancl:

 

when the first ball went in the hole, the hole was over and he had a two. however, consider a more likely scenario.....if the first ball had ended up say an inch or even a foot from the hole, since he did not declare anything, when he hit the second ball, the second ball was automatically in play. at that point, he would have been playing 4 from the green and the first ball would need to be picked up and put in his pocket, no matter how close it was to the hole. So the difference would be doing a short putt for birdie versus a long bogie putt. this is the benefit of making your intentions clear and following the rules. very lucky for him that the first ball went in. otherwise, the best he could have done would be 5 and more than likely, a double bogie assuming a two putt with the second ball.

[Swingtheclub]

I do not claim to be a rules expert, but there is a reason the rules say he has to declare a provisional ball. I believe if he did not then the first ball is deemed lost or out of bounds.

 

Somebody that knows quote the right rules on this one.

 

Ken

[atlanta golfer]

Rule 1-1. Go to a variety of websites including the USGA site. They give all kinds of Q and A scenarios where a player does all kinds of dumb things AFTER he holes his original ball. Once the original ball is holed, nothing else matters.

[Adam Brewer]

alright, thanks.

sorry, i should have mentioned that it was a provisional in my post. i did declare it (in my head. does one really have to say it out loud when he is playing by himself?) though.

i'm not a TOTAL n00b.

[Swingtheclub]

Rule 1-1. Go to a variety of websites including the USGA site. They give all kinds of Q and A scenarios where a player does all kinds of dumb things AFTER he holes his original ball. Once the original ball is holed, nothing else matters.

 

 

If this is correct what is the point of the rule that says you have to declare to hit a provisional ball?

 

I do not get it.

[TexasAg]

Ken,

Play particular attention to 27-2 C. The provisional ball may be abandoned if the original is neither lost nor out of bounds. If the ball is in the cup, it is neither of those and the hole is finished. Even if the ball wasn't declared as provisional (which in other circumstances would automatically make it the ball in play regardless) it doesn't matter because the hole is complete once the ball goes in the cup. The point of the provisional ball is simply to save time.

 

Q. At a par-3 hole, a player, believing his original ball may be lost, plays a provisional ball. He searches five minutes for the original ball and then plays the provisional ball onto the green. At that point, the original ball is found in the hole. What is the ruling?

 

A. The player’s score is 1. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed the original ball (Rule 1-1).

 

27-2 Provisional Ball

a. Procedure

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partnergoes forward to search for the original ball.

If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

(Order of play from teeing ground — see Rule 10-3.)

Note: If a provisional ball played under Rule 27-2a might be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds, the player may play another provisional ball. If another provisional ball is played, it bears the same relationship to the previous provisional ball as the first provisional ballbears to the original.

b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

If the original ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play, under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

If there is reasonable evidence that the original ball is lost in a water hazard,the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.

Exception: If there is reasonable evidence that the original ball is lost in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c) the player may proceed under the applicable Rule.

c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned

If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15 apply.

Note: If a player plays a provisional ball under Rule 27-2a, the strokes made after this Rule has been invoked with a provisional ball abandoned under Rule 27-2c and penalty strokesincurred solely by playing that ball are disregarded.

[TigerStrong]

1-1 General

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules.

 

Decisions

 

1-1/2 Player Unaware He Has Holed Out Puts Another Ball into Play

 

 

Q. A player, unable to find his ball, puts another ball into play. He then discovers that his original ball is in the hole. What is the ruling?

 

A. The score with the original ball counts. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed that ball.

[themouth1]

If he had not declared it as a provisional and hit another ball, would he incur a two stroke penalty for practicing on the course? The hole was over, he hit a ball between holes?

[atlanta golfer]

mouth:

 

if he did not declare a provisional (which it turns out he did), then I think yes, he is practicing on the course, which is only permitted after play of a hole and only on or near the putting green or the next tee. In a competition, this would be a problem.

 

I hate to invoke the rules selectively, but the real truth is that many of us, when playing solo on occasion, will take advantage of the opportunity to hit a few extra balls during play, to test new clubs and shots and experiment with distance. We still keep a strict score for the "real" ball in play and will post this score against our handicap. In retrospect, this is a violation of the rules. I think at some point though, common sense, having fun, and being practical needs to take over.

[Shaitan]

That's wat I was thinking, Mr. Mouth. Even though you said it was a provisional, Adam, if you hadn't I do believe it would have been considered practicing on the course. The only time you can practice between holes is in Matchplay, i believe.

 

Quick check: I know you cannot practice putting on a green during a normal round, but are you allowed to practice other shots not on the green? ie: you are waiting on the next tee and are chipping the ball to the tee blocks, is that deemed practice on the course and hence a two shot penalty on the hole you are about to play? it's a pretty weird question, but I just want to know in case I have a serious match that I'm playing and have such a scenario take place. I wouldn't do it in a normal round as I think that's a little analy retentive, but I'm thinking more tourney level

[Swingtheclub]

I have not been a rules expert for 20 years it takes a lot to keep up.

 

 

 

If you hit a ball that may be out of bounds. Then tee another ball with out declaring it a provisional. Have you not abandoned the original ball.

 

(if this is right the decision the USGA made is stupid about the hole being over when the ball is holed)

[atlanta golfer]

Shaitan:

 

If you go to the USGA site they have the rules and also Q and A and Decisions based on the rules. You CAN practice on the green, around the green, and on the next tee, in stroke play, after the ball is holed. I'm not sure you'd want to do this, except perhaps to get an improved read on green speed, in the early going. This UGSA site is incredibly helpful to answer all the types of very detailed questions that are coming up here.

[TexasAg]

If you hit a ball that may be out of bounds. Then tee another ball with out declaring it a provisional. Have you not abandoned the original ball.

Yes, the 2nd ball is now the ball in play.

 

(if this is right the decision the USGA made is stupid about the hole being over when the ball is holed)

 

Why? If you hit a ball out of bounds, the hole isn't over. If you hit a ball into the cup, the hole is over. It's pretty much the most fundamental rule of golf (rule 1-1).

[Swingtheclub]

If you hit a ball that may be out of bounds. Then tee another ball with out declaring it a provisional. Have you not abandoned the original ball.

Yes, the 2nd ball is now the ball in play.

 

(if this is right the decision the USGA made is stupid about the hole being over when the ball is holed)

 

Why? If you hit a ball out of bounds, the hole isn't over. If you hit a ball into the cup, the hole is over. It's pretty much the most fundamental rule of golf (rule 1-1).

 

 

Lets simplify this. You hit a ball in the woods, you think it may be out of bounds. You hit another ball without declaring that it is a provisional. As it turns out the first ball is in play. Which ball is in play for you?

[mat562]

The second one.

[spinningwedge]

Good Lord you learn something new every day. Practicing putting or chipping in between holes during strokeplay is allowed both by the USGA and RA (this must be a change).....rule 7.2 in both rulebooks. Thank you ATL golfer.

 

I really must make an effort to keep up with the rule changes.

[mat562]

As far as I know, practicing between holes in strokeplay has been allowed for years. The only stipulation is it must not unduly delay play.

[TexasAg]

If you hit a ball that may be out of bounds. Then tee another ball with out declaring it a provisional. Have you not abandoned the original ball.

Yes, the 2nd ball is now the ball in play.

 

(if this is right the decision the USGA made is stupid about the hole being over when the ball is holed)

 

Why? If you hit a ball out of bounds, the hole isn't over. If you hit a ball into the cup, the hole is over. It's pretty much the most fundamental rule of golf (rule 1-1).

 

 

Lets simplify this. You hit a ball in the woods, you think it may be out of bounds. You hit another ball without declaring that it is a provisional. As it turns out the first ball is in play. Which ball is in play for you?

 

The answer is the same as the first time you asked this. The second ball is now in play.

[Swingtheclub]

If you hit a ball that may be out of bounds. Then tee another ball with out declaring it a provisional. Have you not abandoned the original ball.

Yes, the 2nd ball is now the ball in play.

 

(if this is right the decision the USGA made is stupid about the hole being over when the ball is holed)

 

Why? If you hit a ball out of bounds, the hole isn't over. If you hit a ball into the cup, the hole is over. It's pretty much the most fundamental rule of golf (rule 1-1).

 

 

Lets simplify this. You hit a ball in the woods, you think it may be out of bounds. You hit another ball without declaring that it is a provisional. As it turns out the first ball is in play. Which ball is in play for you?

 

The answer is the same as the first time you asked this. The second ball is now in play.

 

 

 

Then how can his first ball be deemed holed if he did not declare a provisitionial.

 

Thats the part of the rule that seems stupid

[TexasAg]

Then how can his first ball be deemed holed if he did not declare a provisitionial.

 

Thats the part of the rule that seems stupid

 

The answer is still the same. The hole is finished once the ball goes in the cup. See rule 1-1.

[atlanta golfer]

Parts of this thread are starting to remind me of that famous line by the Sheriff in Smokey and the Bandit "What we have here is a basic failure to communicate". ;)

[hbear]

No matter what, once the ball is holed...the hole is done.

A guy could hit 12 OB, 15putt once he get to the green, and when he finds his first in the hole, his first is the one that counts.

 

A better example would be if you tee up a ball, nudge it with your club and it falls off, or if you waggle and accidently hit the ball, etc...

You just re-tee with no penalty since the ball is deemed not in play yet.

 

However once the ball is in play, and you hit the ball with a waggle, or accidently make contact without intent to hit it, you must replace the ball WITH penalty.

[jcjr34]

So it seems like it's a mix of the two rules being discussed here. Knowingly, or even unknowingly, when the ball goes in the hole, then the hole is finished. Because the hole is deemed finished, then your second shot (deemed provisional or not) is just a 'practice' shot because you are now between holes. :russian_roulette:

 

I need ;) .

[KMeloney]

So it seems like it's a mix of the two rules being discussed here. Knowingly, or even unknowingly, when the ball goes in the hole, then the hole is finished. Because the hole is deemed finished, then your second shot (deemed provisional or not) is just a 'practice' shot because you are now between holes. :good:

 

I know what you're saying here... But I would have to imagine that there's some ruling covering what is considered "practice," and that hitting a provisional ball (only to find that that ball didn't need to be played because the first was holed) does NOT constitute practice.

 

But who knows. LOL

 

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