Best drills to promote a late wrist release/prevent early casting

[pocketfulladoubles]

Guys, this debate is very interesting but its just dawned on me that my coach has been telling me to have my shoulders level at impact as I will pull the ball if they are not? He has been getting me to initiate the downswin with a dropping of the hands before my shoulders unwind as I have been pulling the ball a lot recently.

 

How does this work with reference to what you guys are saying above?

 

Sounds like your instructor is of the "2 plane" swing school that advocates a stalling of the hips & square shoulders at impact (shoulder line parallel to the target line). Not my preferred method but it's worked for many great players in the past. If your backswing is on the correct plane, no dropping/rerouting of the hands is required.

Jeffmann's points are solid. Also, pulling and casting often go together. If you hold your wrist angles deeper into the downswing, the hands can be moving slightly left before impact while the clubhead is still moving out (because the radius of the arc that the clubhead is travelling on is increasing as the left wrist uncocks). If you lose the wrist angle early, the clubhead will mimic your hand path through impact = pull.

 

 

I have to respectfully disagree on the dropping/stalling of the hands at the top. If you watch video analysis of guys like Chad Campbell and Tiger on something like cSwing and set up their planes for going back and coming down, there is a clear dropping of the hands at the top. It may only be a couple of inches, but it isn't that they are taking it back and coming back on the identical plane. Could be an illusion to me, but it doesn't seem like it.

[slicefixer]

Guys, this debate is very interesting but its just dawned on me that my coach has been telling me to have my shoulders level at impact as I will pull the ball if they are not? He has been getting me to initiate the downswin with a dropping of the hands before my shoulders unwind as I have been pulling the ball a lot recently.

 

How does this work with reference to what you guys are saying above?

 

 

 

jeeeez.....you NEED to go find someone else to help you with your game.......

[slicefixer]

Accoding to the data I have from 91', the tour averages are 5 degrees open at address and 26 at impact......"flippers" where basically square to where they were at address with "rotators" as much as 50 degrees.......I would imagine the average would be at least 30 or more now as "the flippers" are disappearing from "the big tour" like tv's from a NO Wal-Mart post Katrina....... wink.gif

 

 

 

LOL..

Interesting. Were there that many flippers on the tour earlier ... I would have had a chance if i was born earlier LOL....( Not a flipper anymore)

Slicefixer , would you name some please ...

 

 

Flippers?? in 91'?? Oh jeez, Payne Stewart, Ian Woosnam, O'Meara.........those are some big name/major champs I can think of off the top of my noggin'........but, there were a bunch in 91'........Wadkins....hmmmmm.....gotta' get back to misery hill, but, I'll think of some additional names later........

[shanx]

http://www.pga.com/popup/iyg/2007/video/001803.html

 

I found this drill that I work on most of the season to help me build lag, simple and easy to do..

[eugd]

Relaxed Wrist is not the KEY to lag. Helps but not key.

 

Best drill, Confession of the flipper. I learn NOT to cast using that video. Learn the coca cola drill . basically a wall/ a bag on the trailing side, and make sure the shaft never hits the wall. and learn to hit punches with a flat left wrist and bend right wrist to drive the ball into the ground. If you hit them fat, its casting ( because of wrist power ) or your pivot stops.

 

 

anyone has any pic's or video of this drill?

[willamette]

Relaxed Wrist is not the KEY to lag. Helps but not key.

 

Best drill, Confession of the flipper. I learn NOT to cast using that video. Learn the coca cola drill . basically a wall/ a bag on the trailing side, and make sure the shaft never hits the wall. and learn to hit punches with a flat left wrist and bend right wrist to drive the ball into the ground. If you hit them fat, its casting ( because of wrist power ) or your pivot stops.

 

 

anyone has any pic's or video of this drill?

 

Yes or some more explanation would be helpful. I'm not picturing the drill based on the description.

[hayam]

OK.. first put some form of a item, around shoulder height " that you dont mind gettting damaged " on your trail side.. ( right shoulder if you are a right hand golfer)

 

Maintain 90* wrist **** with a club very slow motion from top to waist height. Now if you stand too near, the clubhead gonna hit that ITEM with the clubhead. adjust yourself so the clubhead have one feet clearance.

 

If in any case the wrist is active, or the wrist angle increase too early, which is casting, you will hit that ITEM.

 

Once you understand that there is Zero Wrist Power, that your pivot should be PULLING THE GRIP, ANY WRIST ACTION IS A BY PRODUCT, EFFECT NOT CAUSE. and the swing is all Pivot and Arms..

 

Then do a full speed.

 

You will hit AIR shots. normal.. Make sure your right shoulder turn below your chin . make sure u don't bob

 

Make sure the butt Points at or slightly outside the left shoulder at impact.. FEEL... this will help for a start.. then slowly adjust.

 

Then Proceed to learn to drive the ball into the ground. ..

 

THIS exact drill helped me , and helped the famous CLUBCASTER ( steve) to stop casting... eventually.

[Medici999]

hayam...is it possible for you to post a brief video of this on you tube please. thanks

[Ezgolfer]

That would be very helpful.

[hayam]

I don't think I should Post Brian's material .. His video is worth every penny. i think nearly 45 mins long.. tons of info to get started.

[Medici999]

can you buy this video?

[hayam]

Yes .. u can buy..

 

if you still have some problems with my explanation of the drill . PM me..

[Medici999]

where can i buy it from?

[leekgolf]

www.brianmanzella.com

[MWL]

I have a weak grip, square shoulders at impact and a very bent right arm and I flip it.. no wonder I hit it so bad... :good:

[TCWhite]

Pretend your left arm is very long and then try to hit the ball with the butt end of the handle.

[avrag]

after reading all this and thinking "Oh my god, what have i done all these years, no wonder i'm always swinging out to in", i have one question:

 

would it make any sense to develop a drill in which the right elbow is somehow fixed (but with a little room to work) to the belt loop on the right hip? i'm thinking about trying to do this with an elastic band and then hit balls with a 9to3 swing. could it work to give me the right feeling for dropping the right shoulder and keeping the right elbow tucked in?

 

JeffMan, Hoganfan:

even if you disagree on some details, thank you so very much. your input is great. in fact your argument made everything both of you write, more understandable.

[pocketfulladoubles]

Try a Swing Jacket, there are many to chose from...

[hoganfan924]

Guys, this debate is very interesting but its just dawned on me that my coach has been telling me to have my shoulders level at impact as I will pull the ball if they are not? He has been getting me to initiate the downswin with a dropping of the hands before my shoulders unwind as I have been pulling the ball a lot recently.

 

How does this work with reference to what you guys are saying above?

 

Sounds like your instructor is of the "2 plane" swing school that advocates a stalling of the hips & square shoulders at impact (shoulder line parallel to the target line). Not my preferred method but it's worked for many great players in the past. If your backswing is on the correct plane, no dropping/rerouting of the hands is required.

Jeffmann's points are solid. Also, pulling and casting often go together. If you hold your wrist angles deeper into the downswing, the hands can be moving slightly left before impact while the clubhead is still moving out (because the radius of the arc that the clubhead is travelling on is increasing as the left wrist uncocks). If you lose the wrist angle early, the clubhead will mimic your hand path through impact = pull.

 

 

I have to respectfully disagree on the dropping/stalling of the hands at the top. If you watch video analysis of guys like Chad Campbell and Tiger on something like cSwing and set up their planes for going back and coming down, there is a clear dropping of the hands at the top. It may only be a couple of inches, but it isn't that they are taking it back and coming back on the identical plane. Could be an illusion to me, but it doesn't seem like it.

 

Seems like you didn't understand what I wrote, as Tiger and Chad are two of the best examples of players who do not reroute their hands in transition (the change of direction from backswing to downswing). I never said "stalling of the hands," I'm talking about a school of thought that says the hips should either slow down considerably during the downswing but before impact, or actually stop for an instant to let the upper body and hands catch up (which then causes the hands to "roll over" each other through and after impact). That is what has been termed by Hardy a "2 plane" release. I don't subscribe to that swing style.

 

My point on the hands is that because Tiger and Chad are both on good backswing planes (for them) and not overly steep, they don't have to pull the hands down as an initial downswing move (unlike someone like Daly or Mongomerie). It may appear that Tigers hands drop slightly in the transition, but this is not due to him pulling his hands down, it would be due to his entire upper body moving down slightly if anything. You can see this pretty cleary on swingvision. His and Campbell's hands go right down the plane from the top. And I didn't say it was exactly the same plane they take on the backswing (although Tiger is pretty darn close). "One plane" doesn't mean the hands go back on the same plane they come down.

Here's the latest incarnation of Tiger's swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kO0pgNPG0

[JeffMann]

Hoganfan924

 

That's a very interesting swing video of Tiger Woods. It looks like he has gone back to his old swing where the left arm is slightly steeper than the shoulder turn angle during the backswing, and where he stands more erect with his hands closer to his body. That swing looks very similar to his swing when he published his book "How I Play Golf". It doesn't look the Haney swing model that he adopted in recent years, which had a much flatter swingplane.

 

Jeff.

[Rod]

Personally, I think its a huge waste of time comparing these completely different swing types...unless you are comparing one that is very similar to the golfer who is in need of help. Then you can compare to see what the pro is doing to make it all come together at impact.

 

Back to the topic!

 

Try this(they help me). First, make sure your right elbow isnt flying. This is huge for me and second, as a drill try cocking your wrists immediately at take away. I see this as keeping with the general rule of opposites in golf, in that when you set the wrists early you will release them late in the downswing creating more lag.

 

Something to try, I hope it will help.

 

 

 

BTW, Hogan bows("supinates") his left wrist big time at impact; a move that someone whos name I cannot think of recently stole and now calls it his own<the truth about golf guy>. I think this is why Hogan can get away with his body position at impact.

[hoganfan924]

Personally, I think its a huge waste of time comparing these completely different swing types...unless you are comparing one that is very similar to the golfer who is in need of help. Then you can compare to see what the pro is doing to make it all come together at impact.

 

???

 

BTW, Hogan bows("supinates") his left wrist big time at impact; a move that someone whos name I cannot think of recently stole and now calls it his own<the truth about golf guy>. I think this is why Hogan can get away with his body position at impact.

 

Actually, this is the most misunderstood thing in 5 lessons. Hogan didn't actively supinate his left wrist. The correct term is palmar flexion, in terms of describing the "bowing." That bowing isn't something that should be forced either, it is a result (of his lag). Even correctly described, Hogan also didn't actively supinate his left hand/wrist, he kept them very square to his body for a long time through and well past impact. Part of the great contradiction with Mr. Bonar and his whole "turning the screwdriver" notion, which Hogan certainly didn't do.

[yoonie]

Personally, I think its a huge waste of time comparing these completely different swing types...unless you are comparing one that is very similar to the golfer who is in need of help. Then you can compare to see what the pro is doing to make it all come together at impact.

 

???

 

BTW, Hogan bows("supinates") his left wrist big time at impact; a move that someone whos name I cannot think of recently stole and now calls it his own<the truth about golf guy>. I think this is why Hogan can get away with his body position at impact.

 

Actually, this is the most misunderstood thing in 5 lessons. Hogan didn't actively supinate his left wrist. The correct term is plantar flexion, in terms of describing the "bowing." That bowing isn't something that should be forced either, it is a result (of his lag). Even correctly described, Hogan also didn't actively supinate his left hand/wrist, he kept them very square to his body for a long time through and well past impact. Part of the great contradiction with Mr. Bonar and his whole "turning the screwdriver" notion, which Hogan certainly didn't do.

 

I haven't studied Hogan's swing nearly as much as you or slice, but I'm 100% sure that Hogan SAID (even if he didn't actually) he actively bowed his left wrist through impact. In fact, in 5 lessons he says it's hte one thing he very conciously TRIED to do with his hands during the downswing.

[JeffMann]

Rod/Yoonie - Hogan did bow his left wrist through impact. However, bowing is actually palmar flexion, and not supination. Palmar flexion is a wrist movement, while supination is a forearm movement.

 

For the correct understanding of these terms, see wrist movement terminology

 

Jeff.

[Rod]

His left wrist moves from cupped at the top of his back swing to slightly bowed just before impact. Granted, Im looking at some pretty grainy video, but it looks like almost a 45deg transition to me. And plantar describes the foot.

 

Edit: Supinate is the word Hogan used to describe it. Thats why hoganfan brought up the 5 lessons.

 

Please tell me you did not just make that page on wrist movements!

[hayam]

Agree with HF.

 

IMOP... HOGAN unlike what many people think... Found a way to tame his hands and ARMS through impact, and ability to hit it high. That is the key to his superior ballstriking. And I think he could do the same even without the bending and bowing business.

 

Think... why sergio with tremendous lag " old swing" but not winning as much as he should.. Putting aside.