What wrong with this swing?

[slicefixer]

[quote name='birdie_man' post='847578' date='Jan 3 2008, 07:06 PM']lake WAS talking about the impact zone.

You MAY very well want to explain it differently to Daly/Couples (or whoever else though).....[/quote]


I KNOW that Birdie.........you think I'm an idiot? TRUST me, you speak a word of TGM to Daly/Couples and they are gooooooooone.........IMOP...........

[dana dahlquist]

I remeber when VJ won the Masters and the JW the first time he was very good tee to green.

[birdie_man]

[quote name='slicefixer' post='847606' date='Jan 3 2008, 06:29 PM'][quote name='birdie_man' post='847578' date='Jan 3 2008, 07:06 PM']lake WAS talking about the impact zone.

You MAY very well want to explain it differently to Daly/Couples (or whoever else) though.....[/quote]


I KNOW that Birdie.........you think I'm an idiot? TRUST me, you speak a word of TGM to Daly/Couples and they are gooooooooone.........IMOP...........
[/quote]

Don't worry I agree.

BTW NOOO I of course don't think you're an IDIOT sf (I do assume you're being sarcastic BTW).........

I just figured even [i]you[/i] could make a mistake now and then.

[hayam]

[quote name='dana dahlquist' post='847627' date='Jan 3 2008, 06:42 PM']I remeber when VJ won the Masters and the JW the first time he was very good tee to green.[/quote]

Did Mac work on him some at that time? Do you know what he worked on?

Whats your view on his wrist conditions at finish?

[slicefixer]

[quote name='dana dahlquist' post='847627' date='Jan 3 2008, 07:42 PM']I remeber when VJ won the Masters and the JW the first time he was very good tee to green.[/quote]


Dana, I'm NOT saying that VJ hasn't been BRILLIANT from tee to green at times......hell, BEYOND brilliant........what I'm saying is this, VJ double crosses too many drives (almost always a pull hook when he's trying to fade it) for me to consider him a great ballstriker by MY definition (all because his arms overrun, he then backs out of it in transition which drops the club waaaaay inside and behind, "slows and slings"...."fades it too MUCH from the inside" so he has to slap all hell from it just to get somewhere NEAR square)..........the same basic thing could be said of Mickelson, etc.

ALL PGA Tour players are BRILLIANT ballstrikers at times......when they are "timing" their golf swings well they can hit just about any shot they desire, but, when their timing is OFF they hit it all over the planet........the absolute greatest ballstrikers hit poor shots on occasion (there is tape of Mr. Hogan hittin' it out of the trees ), but, they RARELY, if ever, double cross a shot......and they can hit the driver HARD without fear of hihtting it off the planet.......and they might not hit it dead solid all of the time, but, they aren't in the trees/bunkers/H2O etc. on every other hole either.........Great ballstrikers when playing poorly simply "miss it in play".......in fact, the casual observer would probably think they're hitting it great, but, you and I would HEAR that they aren't....

[kebeal]

I agree that a lot of players will not respond well to TGM terms, but dumbing down the details does not mean that the details don't exist. Whether or not you use these terms, the actions they represent still exist in the golf swing. People to often forget that TGM was never written for players, it was written for instructors. It is the instuctors job to teach at a level the player can understand whether they be john daly or john doe. I think a lot of you would be suprised by the lack of TGM terms used during a TGM instructors typical lesson. Here is a link to a video with Heath Slocum and Mark Blackburn: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iqhJYF9uE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iqhJYF9uE[/url] In the video Lynn Blake asks Heath about right forearm tracing, Heath has no idea what he is talking about, his instructor chimes in and says "we call that laser training". I think there relationship is typical of most TGM instructors and students; that is the actions are still being taught without the terms.

[Rod]

Am I the only one that thinks that his downward move looks alot like Tiger's? To me it looks pretty solid, the only thing I see is that the swing kinda stops at impact and momentum takes over.

Dana: are you saying that you think it is better to change your setup and swing slightly to alter ball flight versus using the same swing and moving the ball?


I believe that what makes these guys(pros) great is that they excel in the one area that can not be taught. Feel! Think about it, you here them talking about visualizing shots. My theory is that most amateurs can only visualize mechanics when the really good players just make it happen.

[Dixie Flatline]

I was lucky enough to spend some time around Tim Simpson practicing and playing. A lot of the stuff he worked on and told me was the same concepts my TGM AI used. I asked Tim if he ever messed around with TGM and he said "Hell no! That stuff would drive me crazy, but my old teacher tells me he snuck it in when I wasn't looking!"

[slicefixer]

[quote name='kebeal' post='847877' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:37 PM']I agree that a lot of players will not respond well to TGM terms, but dumbing down the details does not mean that the details don't exist. Whether or not you use these terms, the actions they represent still exist in the golf swing. People to often forget that TGM was never written for players, it was written for instructors. It is the instuctors job to teach at a level the player can understand whether they be john daly or john doe. I think a lot of you would be suprised by the lack of TGM terms used during a TGM instructors typical lesson. Here is a link to a video with Heath Slocum and Mark Blackburn: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iqhJYF9uE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iqhJYF9uE[/url] In the video Lynn Blake asks Heath about right forearm tracing, Heath has no idea what he is talking about, his instructor chimes in and says "we call that laser training". I think there relationship is typical of most TGM instructors and students; that is the actions are still being taught without the terms.[/quote]


kebeal, I understand TGM is for teachers and not so much for "players"........and as for the information contained within TGM, I can't think of much of anything, ONCE EXPLAINED, that has caused me a big problem...........

My primary problem with TGM is this............

From almost the nano-second it was published SOOOOO many have preached that ALL the answers are in TGM.......as there's been 7 REVISIONS that simply isn't true..........even the staunchest TGM acvocate NOW admits that "Homer didn't get it all right"....and yet, back when I was playing seriously you should have seen the TGM guy's boastin' that "all the answers are IN THE BOOK"......etc. etc...etc........SO, if there are/were "problems" within' TGM origainally how do we know that there STILL aren't? IF there were problems with TGM then how do we know that what TGM proponents are NOW "preaching" as FACT isn't actually FALSE? Apparantly "some" WAS FALSE in versions, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and undboubtedly in 7 also........I'm NOT saying that the greatest precentage of TGM isn't correct, but, what I am saying is HOW do you KNOW what/which IS correct and what isn't? WHO determines what is right and wrong? etc. etc. etc.......Apparantly, SOME of what was "preached" to me in the mid 80's as being FACT is now considered FICTION......MORAD 07' is certainly VERY different than MORAD 86'/87'..........and if you'd told the TGM crowd of the mid 80's that they were wrong about ANYTHING they'd have argued endlessly that we were FOS.......

BTW, I'm NOT saying that there isn't a LOT of GREAT information in TGM.......I KNOW there is.....it's the smug "I KNOW it all" or "ALL the "patterns" are covered" etc.e tc. etc. that gets a bit old........as does the "level 4 secrecy"..

[dana dahlquist]

First off Slice. Stop saying Morad was this or that. Your getting it off tapes. Or that it has changed, you need first hand experiance to know that.
Even I don't speak of what Morad does right now. Like I said its not published there for we can't base anything off what it is or what it is not as of yet.
I can only say or do what I teach or what background I have. Thats why I don't talk about it, its not my place. Ask
George on his site, he's in the circle to do so, I think.

As far as the swing itself would change due to were the ball is. It has too. Depends what your doing.

[Lake]

[quote name='slicefixer' post='847986' date='Jan 3 2008, 09:47 PM']that gets a bit old........as does the "level 4 secrecy".. [/quote]

Level 3 Slice...Level 3. Level 4 is the treasure map and me and nicholas cage are currently looking in your desk

[hoganfan924]

Some TGM guys are to me, a bit like hard core "Bible Thumpers." They'll tell you "It's the Bible. It's all there. It's all correct." Then when you ask about some specifics, suddenly something like the [b]#1 essential [/b](a stationary head) becomes a "recommendation." And they even start changing what the definition of the head is! Or we start getting into long confusing arguments about anatomical vs. a "geometric" flat left wrist.

And the #2 imperative - lag pressure. Please, tell me I can't hit quality golf shots with my right index finger completely off the club (or that a guy without a right index finger can't stike a golf ball as well as anyone).

Then the "guru" Mac O'grady says "Homer Kelley had it 70% right." So what parts are in the 30% that is wrong?

I'll pass on the Kool-aid, thank you very much.

[kebeal]

Slicefixer,

I understand what you are saying about those who go overboard claiming TGM to have all the answers, I agree that it does not (even though I personally have yet to have a question TGM couldn't answer for ME, I believe nothing is perfect.) but I have never seen a more complete book on the golf swing as of yet. You will always have people shouting from the roof tops about how thier way is best whether it be TGM, MORAD, Austin, Hardy, or the homeless guy behind the liquor store. But don't condemn the whole system because of a few "passonate" people. As for the different editions of the book; changes where made mostly in the form of additions of new information or expansions of current concepts. Things were taken out of the book and only Homer knows why I have never heard of homer claiming to have all the answers. TGM has always been a work in progress it is constantly evolving, the first edition only had somewhere around 128 pages the 7th edition has 245 and a lot more information. Homer did not even define hitting vs. swinging until the 3rd edition I believe, and that is the heart and soul of TGM today IMO. People who claim TGM has all the answers have really missed the boat in my opinion, If homer were alive today we would have probably 12 - 14 editions by now with no end in sight. Education has no destination.

[slicefixer]

Dana, I'll state whatever I damn well please......you have NO idea how much I know about MORAD, my "sources,", etc......I have two college teamates of mine who both worked one on one with Mac for several years and they've explained PLENTY about MORAD/Mac, etc.........I've got the 86' tape which is over 2 hours long........I've seen HF's "notes" which read like the "1st edition of MORAD 07'"......etc....etc. etc.....so MY opinion IS based on some FACTS and not just me shooting my mouth off........


Now, as to MORAD, "we've" stated there ARE a number of significant CHANGES in what Mac states in his 86' tape and the 07' S&T version (and I'm NOT the only one who has stated this)........when Mac's swing is viewed on video the TECHNIQUE changes are OBVIOUS to one and all so it's VERY apparant that MAC has "changed" his swing TECHNIQUE a LOT............There is a whole list of questions regarding MORAD 87' vs. MORAD 07' in the "core/arm synch" thread.......I KNOW you've read them as I've seen your name at the bottom of the page repeatedly since they were posted.......YOU stated that MORAD 07' and 87' are the same and that Mac hasn't changed........I posted what, IMOP and others opinon, are some differences.........and you've yet to respond...........WHY?

Annother thing, WHY do you care what I think? The ONLY thing I've stated are MY opinions which I try and ALWAYS back up with coherent observations........I've asked some MORAD related questions, most of which are NEVER answered.......I certainly don't think I've violated the "spirit" of a public forum, much less the rules, by doing so..........at least any significant rule I'm aware of.............t

DD, I DO respect your opinion.....I DO read/listen to what you post and agree with a lot of it.......I DO want to KNOW more about MORAD/TGM/S&T..........but, to be honest, I don't care if you agree/disagree with me on anything golf related......we'll just "agree to disagree" and move on...........

[Lake]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='848024' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:10 PM']Some TGM guys are to me, a bit like hard core "Bible Thumpers." They'll tell you "It's the Bible. It's all there. It's all correct." Then when you ask about some specifics, suddenly something like the [b]#1 essential [/b](a stationary head) becomes a "recommendation." And they even start changing what the definition of the head is! Or we start getting into long confusing arguments about anatomical vs. a "geometric" flat left wrist.

And the #2 imperative - lag pressure. Please, tell me I can't hit quality golf shots with my right index finger completely off the club (or that a guy without a right index finger can't stike a golf ball as well as anyone).

Then the "guru" Mac O'grady says "Homer Kelley had it 70% right." So what parts are in the 30% that is wrong?

I'll pass on the Kool-aid, thank you very much.[/quote]

1.) Show me another golf book(I like to think I have most on my shelf) that offers more than the "duffer's bible." I agree that the interpretation varies on some of the grey areas..(ie: essentials/tripod).

2.) The middle finger would take the roll of the index finger if you chose to take it off the club.

3.) Opinion...

4.) A glass or two won't hurt ya...matter of fact it taste pretty darn good... but if you shot-gun the whole thing you might get sick.

[slicefixer]

[quote name='kebeal' post='848042' date='Jan 4 2008, 12:21 AM']Slicefixer,

I understand what you are saying about those who go overboard claiming TGM to have all the answers, I agree that it does not (even though I personally have yet to have a question TGM couldn't answer for ME, I believe nothing is perfect.) but I have never seen a more complete book on the golf swing as of yet. You will always have people shouting from the roof tops about how thier way is best whether it be TGM, MORAD, Austin, Hardy, or the homeless guy behind the liquor store. But don't condemn the whole system because of a few "passonate" people. As for the different editions of the book; changes where made mostly in the form of additions of new information or expansions of current concepts. Things were taken out of the book and only Homer knows why I have never heard of homer claiming to have all the answers. TGM has always been a work in progress it is constantly evolving, the first edition only had somewhere around 128 pages the 7th edition has 245 and a lot more information. Homer did not even define hitting vs. swinging until the 3rd edition I believe, and that is the heart and soul of TGM today IMO. People who claim TGM has all the answers have really missed the boat in my opinion, If homer were alive today we would have probably 12 - 14 editions by now with no end in sight. Education has no destination.[/quote]


kebeal, I agree wtih you and I've NEVER "condemned the book" in any way IMOP..........I just have questions about the reasoning behind acting like it's the golf swing "Bible" (which IMOP, a LOT of TGM'rs do) when the book isn't 100% correct......SOME TGM'rs act like it is though...........You wanna' say, "well in TGM Homer stated this to be so and so and I've found that to be true"........hey, that's great.........To use TGM as a basis/foundation to BEGINNING your personal golf swing "journey"........GREAT......as a part of your "journey".....again, GREAT............but to read and memorize TGM and then act like you've done a bunch of "research" when all you've done in reality is read ONE book, is a bit over the top IMOP (HOW tha' hell can ya' form an educated opinion when your just parroting someone elses opinon/research?).........and IMOP, a bunch of TGM'rs have done just that.........and they show it when they get so damned "defensive" whenever a person questions something's validity involving TGM........IMOP it's why you rarely see an answer to a direct TGM/MORAD related question.........ya' gotta' REALLY know the stuff to be able to ANSWER the questions.........IF you don't then your going to expose yourself as a fool.........BTW, you can criticize what I post all you want..........you can criticize any of the swings I've posted on YouTube.........etc.......I promise I'll remain calm, answer your 'criticisms" as best I can, and we'll either agree or agree to diasgree......then move on........(and on occasion I HAVE been questioned rather pointedly during my time on the net, and I've done EXACTLY as I just stated.....You ask it, and IF I see it, I'll TRY and answer it....might not always be right, but, I'll try and answer the best I know how...... )

[slicefixer]

[quote name='lake' post='848018' date='Jan 4 2008, 12:05 AM'][quote name='slicefixer' post='847986' date='Jan 3 2008, 09:47 PM']that gets a bit old........as does the "level 4 secrecy".. [/quote]

Level 3 Slice...Level 3. Level 4 is the treasure map and me and nicholas cage are currently looking in your desk
[/quote]


LOL......you and I are going to get along GREAT lake......LOL.........we'll even have a great time on the range cussin' and discussin' golf and the golf swing.........in fact, I'm sure I'll learn something of definite "value"........LOL.......NOT as good as the Elvis deal, but, pretty damn funny to me.....

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='lake' post='848045' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:23 PM']3.) Opinion...

4.) A glass or two won't hurt ya...matter of fact it taste pretty darn good... but if you shot-gun the whole thing you might get sick. [/quote]

3. Exactly! But whose opinion are you trusting, Homer's or Mac's? Remember, Mac's "20 year research project" was intended to validate Homer's work. Now Mac emphatically states "Homer had it 70% right!" So whose research is right and whose is wrong on the 30% in question? If Homer was right, then a good bit of MORAD could be wrong, if Mac is right then 30% of TGM is wrong. If we don't know which 30% is in question, why should I believe 100% of MORAD or TGM?

4. I've already had a few sips just being a member of this site! And I do find some of the information and terms quite helpful in describing and analyzing the golf swing.

[Lake]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='848059' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:35 PM']3. Exactly! But whose opinion are you trusting, Homer's or Mac's? Remember, Mac's "20 year research project" was intended to validate Homer's work. Now Mac emphatically states "Homer had it 70% right!" So whose research is right and whose is wrong on the 30% in question? If Homer was right, then a good bit of MORAD could be wrong, if Mac is right then 30% of TGM is wrong. If we don't know which 30% is in question, why should I believe 100% of MORAD or TGM?

4. I've already had a few sips just being a member of this site! And I do find some of the information and terms quite helpful in describing and analyzing the golf swing.[/quote]

3) Only my own...I listen, study, experiment, debate, & finally decide for myself what works. Ultimately, its just me alone w/ Miss Haversham working on the chicken wing or grinding out the last few holes in a Section event trying to let the inner body take charge of itself

4) LOL... who doesn't like a little Kool-Aid now and then!!!! Otter-Pops rock!!!

[hoganfan924]

That's a peach!

[slicefixer]

[quote name='lake' post='848099' date='Jan 4 2008, 12:58 AM'][quote name='hoganfan924' post='848059' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:35 PM']3. Exactly! But whose opinion are you trusting, Homer's or Mac's? Remember, Mac's "20 year research project" was intended to validate Homer's work. Now Mac emphatically states "Homer had it 70% right!" So whose research is right and whose is wrong on the 30% in question? If Homer was right, then a good bit of MORAD could be wrong, if Mac is right then 30% of TGM is wrong. If we don't know which 30% is in question, why should I believe 100% of MORAD or TGM?

4. I've already had a few sips just being a member of this site! And I do find some of the information and terms quite helpful in describing and analyzing the golf swing.[/quote]

3) Only my own...I listen, study, experiment, debate, & finally decide for myself what works. Ultimately, its just me alone w/ Miss Haversham working on the chicken wing or grinding out the last few holes in a Section event trying to let the inner body take charge of itself

4) LOL... who doesn't like a little Kool-Aid now and then!!!! Otter-Pops rock!!!
[/quote]



AGAIN, you and I are going to get along GREAT.......LOL......btw, HF will be there too (so you better talk DD or Machine into going too, that way the "sides" will be even )......AT least he'll tag along IF I can keep the price down () and Chrysler will let him outa' the mechanical engineering boiler room for 4 days..........

[Lake]

[quote name='slicefixer' post='848121' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:11 PM']AGAIN, you and I are going to get along GREAT.......LOL......btw, HF will be there too (so you better talk DD or Machine into going too, that way the "sides" will be even )......AT least he'll tag along IF I can keep the price down () and Chrysler will let him outa' the mechanical engineering boiler room for 4 days..........[/quote]

Oh..man HF Too I'm going to have to bring a barrel full of kryptonite & Lipscomb's #1 to level that field...although if we play a two man scramble DD could hit those CF Bombs while I massage a few wedges in close....I think Machine is a lefty and they do a.o.k in Magnolia Lane

Look forward to the battle....I don't like to fist pump but I'm known to hold my follow through a little longer than the average bear.

Sorry the delay of game...back to scheduled programming

[slicefixer]

[quote name='lake' post='848146' date='Jan 4 2008, 01:38 AM'][quote name='slicefixer' post='848121' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:11 PM']AGAIN, you and I are going to get along GREAT.......LOL......btw, HF will be there too (so you better talk DD or Machine into going too, that way the "sides" will be even )......AT least he'll tag along IF I can keep the price down () and Chrysler will let him outa' the mechanical engineering boiler room for 4 days..........[/quote]

Oh..man HF Too I'm going to have to bring a barrel full of kryptonite & Lipscomb's #1 to level that field...although if we play a two man scramble DD could hit those CF Bombs while I massage a few wedges in close....I think Machine is a lefty and they do a.o.k in Magnolia Lane

Look forward to the battle....I don't like to fist pump but I'm known to hold my follow through a little longer than the average bear.

Sorry the delay of game...back to scheduled programming
[/quote]


Sheeeeeyattt.........I just returned from a visit to the famed Cooper Clinic........tested from stem to stern........good news is I probably won't kick over tomorrow......bad news is I'm 46 going on 90........you young buck's can just get prepared to spot us a few shots......

[hayam]

70% right.

And people are staring at the 30% ..


Life is tough , and its tough to be right, I am glad I am learning from that 70% and 30%

Most people hardly get it 30% right.

[birdie_man]

Man.....we sure know how to get off topic eh... Geeeeezzzzz........

It really is getting bad though. (not that I don't keep getting into it)

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='848024' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:10 PM']Then when you ask about some specifics, suddenly something like the [b]#1 essential [/b](a stationary head) becomes a "recommendation." And they even start changing what the definition of the head is! Or we start getting into long confusing arguments about anatomical vs. a "geometric" flat left wrist.[/quote]

But Essentials ARE merely recommendations. Very simply. Even ask the guys who like stationary heads hogfan.....lol. There IS a reason why Homer made 2 different lists. (Imperatives/Essentials)

I agree with your latter two beefs though...

...

[quote]And the #2 imperative - lag pressure. Please, tell me I can't hit quality golf shots with my right index finger completely off the club (or that a guy without a right index finger can't stike a golf ball as well as anyone).[/quote]

Hmmmmm. I think I've heard this one answered before. I will pose the question to Brian and see what he says.

[quote]I'll pass on the Kool-aid, thank you very much.[/quote]

Me too.

[birdie_man]

[quote name='slicefixer']From almost the nano-second it was published SOOOOO many have preached that ALL the answers are in TGM.......as there's been 7 REVISIONS that simply isn't true..........even the staunchest TGM acvocate NOW admits that "Homer didn't get it all right"....and yet, back when I was playing seriously you should have seen the TGM guy's boastin' that "all the answers are IN THE BOOK"......etc. etc...etc........SO, if there are/were "problems" within' TGM origainally how do we know that there STILL aren't? IF there were problems with TGM then how do we know that what TGM proponents are NOW "preaching" as FACT isn't actually FALSE? Apparantly "some" WAS FALSE in versions, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and undboubtedly in 7 also........I'm NOT saying that the greatest precentage of TGM isn't correct, but, what I am saying is HOW do you KNOW what/which IS correct and what isn't? WHO determines what is right and wrong? etc. etc. etc.......Apparantly, SOME of what was "preached" to me in the mid 80's as being FACT is now considered FICTION......MORAD 07' is certainly VERY different than MORAD 86'/87'..........and if you'd told the TGM crowd of the mid 80's that they were wrong about ANYTHING they'd have argued endlessly that we were FOS.......

BTW, I'm NOT saying that there isn't a LOT of GREAT information in TGM.......I KNOW there is.....it's the smug "I KNOW it all" or "ALL the "patterns" are covered" etc.e tc. etc. that gets a bit old........as does the "level 4 secrecy".. wink.gif[/quote]

Hey man I'm with you. This keeps getting brought up and I for one will keep agreeing.

There are people who will take anything too far. I'm sure I have done it myself at certain times. Some of these "Kool-Aid" types can be worse. I don't like it at all and have no interest in defending something that isn't true.

BTW all the "patterns" more or less ARE covered. That's the main point of it all my friend.

That's FOR SURE not to say that it's in any kind of a "how to" way though.....which is what I'm sure you're referring to.

[birdie_man]

[quote name='hoganfan924']And the #2 imperative - lag pressure. Please, tell me I can't hit quality golf shots with my right index finger completely off the club (or that a guy without a right index finger can't stike a golf ball as well as anyone).[/quote]

[quote name='lake']The middle finger would take the roll of the index finger if you chose to take it off the club.[/quote]

Hey I think you may be right lake.

Or at least something has to take over.

The book just says "[b]a[/b] clubhead lag pressure point."

[razorback]

i guess dana's bread got toasted lol

[golfer.61]

what ever happened to jodie mudd?....played some great golf and then vanished.....

[Machinegolfer]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='848024' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:10 PM']Some TGM guys are to me, a bit like hard core "Bible Thumpers." They'll tell you "It's the Bible. It's all there. It's all correct." Then when you ask about some specifics, suddenly something like the [b]#1 essential [/b](a stationary head) becomes a "recommendation." And they even start changing what the definition of the head is! Or we start getting into long confusing arguments about anatomical vs. a "geometric" flat left wrist.

And the #2 imperative - lag pressure. Please, tell me I can't hit quality golf shots with my right index finger completely off the club (or that a guy without a right index finger can't stike a golf ball as well as anyone).

Then the "guru" Mac O'grady says "Homer Kelley had it 70% right." So what parts are in the 30% that is wrong?

I'll pass on the Kool-aid, thank you very much.[/quote]

Essentials are not Imperatives, they are essentially recommendations as so laid forth by Homer, this is not new this is how its always been. Whether you are consciously aware of the pressure point or not its most likely there, as it is the closes digit to the club head, therefor it is the clubhead lag pressure point. There is no debate as to a flat left wrist, if you grip type is flat level and vertical you will have (if done properly) an anatomical flat left wrist at impact, however, the grip types for some individuals (more turned) or pronated which will not allow for the geometry of the golf swing to produce straight away ball flight with an antomicaly flat level ad vertical left wrist therefore it is called "geometrically correct because it satisfies the requirement for the law of the flail. As far as those that say "It ain't all in the book" well I would say I agree, but not because anything in the book is wrong per se, only that there is more information that could be put in there such as mac's ball flight variations and trajectories, TGM is how to hit a ball straight with limited emphasis on hitting different shot shapes...pass the kool-aid here please