Had an eye opening lesson around pressure on the takeaway. Wanted to share

[ForeRiight]

Executive summary: there's a fairly sizable downward force on the backswing

 

If you're like me, you've read a lot of golf books, watched a lot of tutorials. Things we're all familiar with: loading, turning into your right side, reverse pivot, inside takeaway, 45/55, weight shift, pivot…all the classics

 

Lots of great literature. But also if you're like me, spending time at the range figuring this stuff out and watching the other lunatics at the asylum; we don't really get it.

 

I've got a pretty good swing. I shoot in the high 70s. My swing is very timing based. But it works. I wouldn't say I have a hold of it though. I experience all sorts of pinching and pains due to the amount of force and speed I create and the use of my hands and arms to control it. Not great.

 

I've been trying to figure out "loading". I want to offload the forces i'm creating onto bigger muscles. I've got 5 lessons, Ledbetters book, and the little red bible on my coffee table. They all mention the same thing. Keep the right knee flexed, turn into it, generate force, unwind, away you go. Easy, right? Yeah I don't think so. Turning INTO the right side is one visual. Turning the chest over the right side is another. Back to the target gets it done. Lots of turning forces. And for an amateur, turning one way leads to turning another. And don't we all love turning our right side into the shot to initiate the downswing. Then you get into excessive movement. How do you turn while remaining centered and ready to hit? If you do move, you've got to get back. That's a lot of work.

 

I had a lesson with a very unassuming range pro recently. I heard he coached a few plus handicappers. To start off, he went on a tirade for about 5 minutes about GG and how it pains him to see all these kids at the range chunking the range mats and the awkwardness and excessive movements they were carrying out to hit the little white thing. (yes, GGs swing is a framework. I think he's getting at just picking 1 part and thinking it'll all work). I thought that was funny.

 

We got onto loading and I was demonstrating what i was working on and a bit about where my forces were and where i wanted them to be. As a demo, arms across chest, turning, feeling weight on my right heel. The shots were all hit well. But not with any sort of control that helps me sleep at night. He said "i'll let you in on a little secret. Forget loading IN to your right side. Load downward. There's actually a downward force you apply on the backswing and that's how you get into your right side"

 

The changes were pretty amazing. The backswing now feels like an overall downward force while I create a shoulder turn. This puts the upper body in a very relaxed and passive position. It feels dead center. Because I'm turning my shoulders at the same time, the downward force moves to my right side. Feels like sitting into the right side rather than turning. The hands are so loose. It's extremely difficult to whip the club inside. Because there's so much pressure in the lower body and so little in the upper, it feels like I jump up on transition. Almost like there's no "turning" at all. The reality of course is that it's a complete turn and looks like a normal golf swing, but the internal concept of how to generate that force is totally different.

 

I'm not going to lie and say i'm shooting in the 60s. But i'm now shooting comfortably in the 70s. For months. Especially in the wind (windy where I live). My arms aren't contending with it anymore. This is a natural tempo keeper.

 

Probably the best example I can find of this feel is Justin Thomas. Once you feel it, you can see it. 

 

 

 

Hope this helps another "turner" figure out how to load and saves you a few shots.

 

Key feels if you try it

Overall downward force + upper turn at the same time. Feel centered

Feeling of weightlessness in the arms at the top

Swing will feel short. Maybe 10pm at max. Don't overdo it. The arc should feel wide.

Let the club basically fall from the top. Lower body will do its thing

 

Try it without a ball at home and see if the weight is naturally driven into your right side without turning into it.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by ForeRiight
youtube URL

[Gsea]

If you could be a little more specific it might help us layman's. Thanks

[Soloman1]

Be careful that you're not going down a rabbit hole of "semi-knowledge" that isn't matched to other parts of your individual swing, including grip, pivot axis, etc. You can end up doing more harm than good. Justin Thomas uses more vertical forces than most players and that is a result of his pivot, swing plane and grip. We all go lateral, rotational then vertical, but not everyone uses such extreme verticals. For example, Dustin Johnson uses very little vertical.

 

I urge some caution because I don't know if you have the whole story.

 

I know you'll probably ignore this, so best of luck anyway... 🙂

Edited November 29, 2020 by Soloman1

[ForeRiight]

5 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Be careful that you're not going down a rabbit hole of "semi-knowledge" that isn't matched to other parts of your individual swing, including grip, pivot axis, etc. You can end up doing more harm than good. Justin Thomas uses more vertical forces than most players and that is a result of his pivot, swing plane and grip. We all go lateral, rotational then vertical, but not everyone uses such extreme verticals. For example, Dustin Johnson uses very little vertical.

 

I urge some caution because I don't know if you have the whole story.

 

I know you'll probably ignore this, so best of luck anyway... 🙂

 

This is predicated on the fundamentals of GASP being in place. it's also probably more of a conceptual rethink for a lower handicap player.

 

And everyone should match up their feels with their reals.

[golfsticks]

1 hour ago, ForeRiight said:

Executive summary: there's a fairly sizable downward force on the backswing

Load downward. There's actually a downward force you apply on the backswing and that's how you get into your right side"

The backswing now feels like an overall downward force while I create a shoulder turn.... it feels like I jump up on transition.

 

 

Like someone from Ireland said, 'now we're sucking diesel'.  This is excellent.  There is indeed a download into the ground going back, but there's a choice from the top.  From that screwed down top position transition by screwing down even more.  Either way works but I've found that getting even lower keeps the toe from misbehaving,  but it takes courage to keep going down even from a lowered top because it doesn't feel correct.   Does it feel like a spiral going up on the back swing while loading down at the same time? 

 

Good stuff!

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by golfsticks
clarity

[ForeRiight]

1 hour ago, golfsticks said:

Does it feel like a spiral going up on the back swing while loading down at the same time? 

 

If I want to draw the ball, it feels more up and in. Which could feel to you like a spiral. But i play a fade so to me it just feels like a downward force and a shoulder turn.

 

I'm no illustrator but maybe this helps. Without the downward force in the second frame, my shoulders and hip have nothing to react against.

 

Probably worth calling out, with proper posture a shoulder turn isn't a lateral thing. The left shoulder is very much going down

Edited November 29, 2020 by ForeRiight
Clarification

[KMeloney]

Did this pro then SHOW you what to do differently than what you had been doing? I'm pretty sure I get the "what," but definitely not the "how."

[Arn]

 

I like GG, but prefer thinking in straight lines as Malaskas discusses. In the end I wind up with more hip turn by not turning my hip and instead getting it deep. GG means more or less the same thing, just expresses it differently.

 

You call it down, Malaskas says hip depth, GG says turn. Really whichever words work for you.

[ForeRiight]

5 hours ago, KMeloney said:

Did this pro then SHOW you what to do differently than what you had been doing? I'm pretty sure I get the "what," but definitely not the "how."

 

He put me into the position, yes. And I talked through where I was feeling the forces. See this at 5:40ish:

 

5 hours ago, Arn said:

 

I like GG, but prefer thinking in straight lines as Malaskas discusses. In the end I wind up with more hip turn by not turning my hip and instead getting it deep. GG means more or less the same thing, just expresses it differently.

 

You call it down, Malaskas says hip depth, GG says turn. Really whichever words work for you.

 

Yep, but what I'm getting at is that in most books or visuals the forces are seen to be corkscrewing upward or over the right side. What Mike demos here is the feel I get. He's describing the downward force. Thanks for linking that.