Dynamic Gold Question

[Trap Junior]

I am testing some dynamic golds from an old set in some new heads.  Noticed printed on the shaft of the 8 iron 'DGIXL100  37.50'.

 

Is this an actual 8 iron shaft?  The 37.5 is making me think its a 6 iron shaft but am hoping it is 37.5 at raw length before trimming to desired 8 iron length.

 

Anyone know which one is it?

[GolfSwang]

37.5" is indeed the 8i shaft, raw/uncut shaft length, taper tip.

37" would be the wedge/9i, 38" is 7i, and so on. 

 

For confirmation:

https://www.golfworks.com/true-temper-dynamic-gold-355-steel-iron-shafts/p/dgi/

[Trap Junior]

13 minutes ago, GolfSwang said:

37.5" is indeed the 8i shaft, raw/uncut shaft length, taper tip.

37" would be the wedge/9i, 38" is 7i, and so on. 

 

For confirmation:

https://www.golfworks.com/true-temper-dynamic-gold-355-steel-iron-shafts/p/dgi/

Thank you.  Link doesn't work for me as I am in Europe and Golfworks doesn;t allow access to its website for non Americans for some odd reason.

[GolfSwang]

26 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

Thank you.  Link doesn't work for me as I am in Europe and Golfworks doesn;t allow access to its website for non Americans for some odd reason.

That's odd. 

Here's what I was referring to anyway:

 

[Trap Junior]

That's brilliant. Thanks!

[Trap Junior]

What flex are Dynamic Gold 'wedge' that comes as standard on wedges?

Are they S200, S300 or S400?

 

What would be the difference between them?

 

Most tour guys would be in S400 in the wedges would they?

[hbear]

Usually it's "Stiff" in the wedges as the stock "wedge" flex from what I remember.  That means anything from S200 to S400 as they are not weight sorted.

That being said, I believe most are in the S200 to S300 range.  For context it's only 1-2 gram gaps so hardly noticable.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by hbear
Correction

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

What flex are Dynamic Gold 'wedge' that comes as standard on wedges?

Are they S200, S300 or S400?

 

Depends on the club OEM.  More commonly it's either s200 or s300.

 

11 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

What would be the difference between them?

 

A few grams in weight.

 

 

[Trap Junior]

Sorry for all the questions but just built a 5, 7 and 8 iron yesterday in DG x100 witht he grips I like.

 

The 5 iron is 37.25'' and the lightest possible swingweight with it is D2. 

The 8 iron head weighed 277g and the lightest possible swingweight with it is D3.2

 

Therefore I had to build the set to D3 as I cant make it lighter

 

The deadweight of the 5 iron is 444g,   7 iron is 454g  and 8 iron is 460g.

 

Do they sound too heavy? I have them at D3 more or less.  The 5 iron is maybe D3.5. 

I was hoping to build them to D1 or D2.

 

In testing I had slightly thinner grips on and they were 1/8 to 1/4'' longer and I was gripping down and they felt great.  Since then I have cut the shafts down to old Mizuno standard length which is 37.75'' 5 iron.  I have put thicker grips on and I just fear they may be a touch too heavy now.  I think I can deal with 130g shafts but probably would like them to be at D1-D2 max. 

 

The 8 iron so far in the build is the problem.  The lightest I can get it is D3 or so.  I dont have the Tour issue shafts so wondering if I got a heavier shaft than the rest.  The 5 and 7 I can get to D2.

 

I dont know if this is a good idea or not but was thinking of shaving another 1/8'' off the shafts which would get them to D2. I am 6ft and every custom fitter I have been to tells me to use longer than standard.  I wouldnt have the power for DG x100 longer than standard.  They would be too heavy for me. I am comfortable enough at the length I currently play.

 

So I guess what I am asking is do I rip the grips off and shave 1/8'' off the shafts or if I ordered a set of Tour Issue would that solve the slight discrepancy in swingweight?

 

 

The 5 iron head weighs 255g,  the 7 is 270g and the 8 is 277g. 

 

 

They are the only ones I have built so far.  I have modus 120x in the 6 iron and PW.  They feel ok but not as good in wind as DG.  They spin up and get buffed about.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Trap Junior

[hbear]

Remember swing weight and static weight are 2 very different measures.  One is simply how heavy (static weight) while another is a fulcrum measure (swing weight).  Outside of extremes in swing weight, think of it as a feel measure and I wouldn't get to fixated on the D2 or D3 measure especailly if you are running overlength (which throws the measure off).  I remember some posts ages ago here where club makers were showing clubs they put together for NBA players; and due to overlenght they were in the E and F range.

 

Think of it this way, you can easily make club have a super light swing weight using a pile of couterbalancing, or have a super heavy swing weight by using putting that same weight at the clubhead. 

 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Trap Junior said:

Sorry for all the questions but just built a 5, 7 and 8 iron yesterday in DG x100 witht he grips I like.

 

The 5 iron is 37.25'' and the lightest possible swingweight with it is D2. 

The 8 iron head weighed 277g and the lightest possible swingweight with it is D3.2

 

What's the playing length of the 8i? 

 

Did you get the cut shaft weights?

 

But that 5i does seems heavier than it should be for that short length which is surprising since the head weights you posted later seem pretty good.

 

 

1 hour ago, Trap Junior said:

Therefore I had to build the set to D3 as I cant make it lighter

 

The deadweight of the 5 iron is 444g,   7 iron is 454g  and 8 iron is 460g.

 

That also seems a bit heavy.

 

1 hour ago, Trap Junior said:

The 8 iron so far in the build is the problem.  The lightest I can get it is D3 or so.  I dont have the Tour issue shafts so wondering if I got a heavier shaft than the rest.  The 5 and 7 I can get to D2.

 

Unlikely as the difference is only +/- about 2-3 gms for the non tour issue shafts.   Not enough to give those results.

 

 

Did you get the shafts new and uncut - or were they pulls?   Did you inspect the insides of the shafts?      I'm wondering if they have the sensicore inserts inside them (or something else like a lot of old epoxy in the tips).

 

[Trap Junior]

13 minutes ago, hbear said:

Remember swing weight and static weight are 2 very different measures.  One is simply how heavy (static weight) while another is a fulcrum measure (swing weight).  Outside of extremes in swing weight, think of it as a feel measure and I wouldn't get to fixated on the D2 or D3 measure especailly if you are running overlength (which throws the measure off).  I remember some posts ages ago here where club makers were showing clubs they put together for NBA players; and due to overlenght they were in the E and F range.

 

Think of it this way, you can easily make club have a super light swing weight using a pile of couterbalancing, or have a super heavy swing weight by using putting that same weight at the clubhead. 

 

Yes I agree,  I just dont like the feeling of swinging a pick axe especially late in a round when fatigue might set in

[Trap Junior]

17 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

What's the playing length of the 8i? 

 

Did you get the cut shaft weights?

 

But that 5i does seems heavier than it should be for that short length which is surprising since the head weights you posted later seem pretty good.

 

 

 

That also seems a bit heavy.

 

 

Unlikely as the difference is only +/- about 2-3 gms for the non tour issue shafts.   Not enough to give those results.

 

 

Did you get the shafts new and uncut - or were they pulls?   Did you inspect the insides of the shafts?      I'm wondering if they have the sensicore inserts inside them (or something else like a lot of old epoxy in the tips).

 

No, stupidly I never thought of weighing the shafts.  They are shaft pulls from a 15 year old set of Mizunos I had around 2005 which were too heavy and the swingweight of those was D4-D7.  They were around 1/4'' longer than standard by the looks of it.

 

I am using 5 layers of double sided tape under a Tour Velvet Full Cord Round.

 

The 8 iron is 36.25'' 

 

There were no sensicore inserts and yes the shafts were clean inside.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Stuart_G]

1 minute ago, Trap Junior said:

No, stupidly I never thought of weighing the shafts.  They are shaft pulls from a 15 year old set of Mizunos I had around 2005 which were too heavy and the swingweight of those was D4-D7.  They were around 1/4'' longer than standard by the looks of it.

 

I am using 5 layers of double sided tape under a Tour Velvet Full Cord Round.

 

The 8 iron is 36.25''

 

There were no sensicore inserts and yes the shafts were clean inside.

 

Well something seems to be off but I can't say what.    3/4" short of the 38" 5i standard with those head weights and the added tape under the grip should give a swing weight closer to C8 and  a static weight for that 5i of closer to 435.      I'd be tempted to pull one of the shafts (say the 5i) and check the raw cut shaft weight (w/o the head and grip).

 

I don't mean to be insulting but how sure are you of the accuracy of those measurements?

 

[Trap Junior]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Well something seems to be off but I can't say what.    3/4" short of the 38" 5i standard with those head weights and the added tape under the grip should give a swing weight closer to C8 and  a static weight for that 5i of closer to 435.      I'd be tempted to pull one of the shafts (say the 5i) and check the raw cut shaft weight (w/o the head and grip).

 

I don't mean to be insulting but how sure are you of the accuracy of those measurements?

 

I think you may have read my post wrong.  My 5 iron is 37.75''.  My 6 iron is 37.25''.

[Stuart_G]

9 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

I think you may have read my post wrong.  My 5 iron is 37.75''.  My 6 iron is 37.25''.

 

True but still that would only mean an expected swing weight of around D0 instead of C8 and a static weight about 1.5 gm higher than I calculated the first time.

 

[Trap Junior]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

True but still that would only mean an expected swing weight of around D0 instead of C8 and a static weight about 1.5 gm higher than I calculated the first time.

 

Would it be the grip tape I use?  I think 5 layers is around 5g

 

I added small tip weights to the 5 iron and 7 iron to get them to D3.  Only around 2g though.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Stuart_G]

10 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

Would it be the grip tape I use?  I think 5 layers is around 5g

 

I added small tip weights to the 5 iron and 7 iron to get them to D3.  Only around 2g though.

 

I accounted for the extra wraps - actually closer to 7 gm for 5 wraps of build up tape.  It would be more if it was extra layers of some double sided tape but even if that was the case that would mean an even lower swing weight, not a higher one.   For that static weight to also increase the swing weight means it needs to come from the shaft (or ferrule - which is unlikely unless you're using a metal ferrule) or WAY too much epoxy.

 

Did you double check the playing length on a club ruler after gluing the heads and adding the grips?

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Trap Junior]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I accounted for the extra wraps - actually closer to 7 gm for 5 wraps of build up tape.  It would be more if it was extra layers of some double sided tape but even if that was the case that would mean an even lower swing weight, not a higher one.   For that static weight to also increase the swing weight means it needs to come from the shaft (or ferrule - which is unlikely unless you're using a metal ferrule) or WAY too much epoxy.

 

Did you double check the playing length on a club ruler after gluing the heads and adding the grips?

 

Ferrule was 1g.

 

Yes they are the same length as my old set which were cut by the Mizuno factory and I also measured the length.

 

I had 2 sets from 2005 and 2007 with X100 (MP33 and MP67) with same grips as now except maybe slightly thinner.  I am using more tape now.  The 7 iron of a set of MP67s with x100 at the same length as I have just built is 453g at D2.  I found them heavy back in 2007.

 

The MP4 7 iron I have built from pullouts of a 2005 MP33 set with X100 are 454g at D3 (same length as the MP67 factory made one)

 

The grips I use are 52g

 

 

 

P.S.  The 2005 4 iron is 249g head weight.  X100 DG  Tour velvet full cord round with 2-3 layers tape and is 1/4'' longer than standard (i.e.38.5'') and is 433g @D4.  The weight feels good to me.

 

So would the shafts or grips the issue?  Maybe the shafts have poor weight matching?  Or maybe the extra layers of tape are adding a lot of deadweight.  I could try putting the slightly thicker grip on the 4 iron and see how that changes things.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Trap Junior]

What weight should my 5 iron be Stuart do you think?

 

Here are my calculations:    5 iron head =  255g

                                      DG X100 listed as= 130g

                                                            Grip   = 52g

                                           5 layers of tape = 6g

                                                         Ferrule =  1g

                                                             Glue = 1g?  (guess)

                                                    Tip weight= 2g

 

                                                          Total = 447g  

 

 

but actual weight is 444g

                                           

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Trap Junior said:

What weight should my 5 iron be Stuart do you think?

 

Here are my calculations:    5 iron head =  255g

                                      DG X100 listed as= 130g

                                                            Grip   = 52g

                                           5 layers of tape = 6g

                                                         Ferrule =  1g

                                                             Glue = 1g?  (guess)

                                                    Tip weight= 2g

 

                                                          Total = 447g  

 

 

but actual weight is 444g

                                           

 

You're using the uncut shaft weight.  Cut shaft weight should be closer to 121 gm.

 

e.g. for the const weight, taper tip version.   An uncut 5i shaft is a 130 gm @ 39"   that gives about 3.33 gm/inch.   For a 37.74" playing length, cut shaft length depends on the specific head model but typically will be 36.25" to 36.5"   =>  120.8 gm to 121.6 gm.  That's just a rough estimate - which is why it's generally a good idea to weigh the cut shafts before gluing up.

[Trap Junior]

18 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

You're using the uncut shaft weight.  Cut shaft weight should be closer to 121 gm.

 

e.g. for the const weight, taper tip version.   An uncut 5i shaft is a 130 gm @ 39"   that gives about 3.33 gm/inch.   For a 37.74" playing length, cut shaft length depends on the specific head model but typically will be 36.25" to 36.5"   =>  120.8 gm to 121.6 gm.  That's just a rough estimate - which is why it's generally a good idea to weigh the cut shafts before gluing up.

It probably is in that range of 121-123g

 

If you do the maths:

 

Head 255g

Shaft (Assumed)  121g

Grip 53g

Tape 6g

Ferrule 1g

Tip weight to get to D3 3-5g

 

Total= 339-441g

 

So the 3-5 g difference from the 444g is either from the shaft, the glue or the solvent

[Trap Junior]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:34 PM, Stuart_G said:

 

I accounted for the extra wraps - actually closer to 7 gm for 5 wraps of build up tape.  It would be more if it was extra layers of some double sided tape but even if that was the case that would mean an even lower swing weight, not a higher one.   For that static weight to also increase the swing weight means it needs to come from the shaft (or ferrule - which is unlikely unless you're using a metal ferrule) or WAY too much epoxy.

 

Did you double check the playing length on a club ruler after gluing the heads and adding the grips?

 

I have built the whole set now.  The set of shafts I have are from two  15 year old set and the 6 iron shafts is actualy a 5 iron shaft cut down (soft stepped) At playing length of just under 37.25'' it weighed 120g alone.   I never thought I would use these shafts again about 8 yrs ago so had pulled them out and cut some of them down and stuck them in other clubs etc.  Apart from the 6 iron the rest are ok in original condition.

I plan on getting Tour Issue shafts if I find these shafts go well.  I have the set between D2.8-D3.6. II had problems with the 8 iron gettign it lighter.  I wonder was the shaft heavier than the rest.  I never weighed it stupidly.

 

The PW shaft was 120g and the soft stepped 5 iron shaft to go into the 6 iron was 120g also.  What do you think of these weights?  Is that normal?

 

PW  deadweight is 474g

9 iron deadweight is 468g

8 iron deadweight is 460g

7 iron deadweight is 454g

6 iron is drying but I think is 448g softstepped shaft and 1/8'' too short)

5 iron deadweight is 444g

 

I was thinking of putting a graphite shaft extension in the 6 iron to bring it up to length.  Is that ok?

I tried a steel one but it added too much weight.

 

Also if I get the new shafts and I softstep them would it make them a couple of grams lighter?

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

I have built the whole set now.  The set of shafts I have are from two  15 year old set and the 6 iron shafts is actualy a 5 iron shaft cut down (soft stepped) At playing length of just under 37.25'' it weighed 120g alone.   I never thought I would use these shafts again about 8 yrs ago so had pulled them out and cut some of them down and stuck them in other clubs etc.  Apart from the 6 iron the rest are ok in original condition.

I plan on getting Tour Issue shafts if I find these shafts go well.  I have the set between D2.8-D3.6. II had problems with the 8 iron gettign it lighter.  I wonder was the shaft heavier than the rest.  I never weighed it stupidly.

 

The PW shaft was 120g and the soft stepped 5 iron shaft to go into the 6 iron was 120g also.  What do you think of these weights?  Is that normal?

 

PW  deadweight is 474g

9 iron deadweight is 468g

8 iron deadweight is 460g

7 iron deadweight is 454g

6 iron is drying but I think is 448g softstepped shaft and 1/8'' too short)

5 iron deadweight is 444g

 

There is no "normal" it's really just a matter of how well the total weight matches up with the sum of the parts.  And now that you are aware of the difference between the uncut and cut shaft weight, you can do that fairly accurate now.    Just also realize that grip weights can vary a bit due to manufacturing tolerances as well as the other parts.

 

If it doesn't match, then the question of 'why' becomes difficult to answer after the build is done.

 

 

15 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

I was thinking of putting a graphite shaft extension in the 6 iron to bring it up to length.  Is that ok?

I tried a steel one but it added too much weight.

 

For 1/8" on my own clubs, I likely wouldn't do anything to correct it.   But if I did, I'd probably just use a small remnant of a previous cut off or even build a small spacer from a wooden dowel.   But nothing wrong with using a graphite extension in a steel shaft if that's what you want.  You can even remove most of the part that gets inserted into the shaft.

 

 

15 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

Also if I get the new shafts and I softstep them would it make them a couple of grams lighter?

 

For constant or ascendign weight shafts  (most taper tip shafts),  yes it would result in being slightly lighter.   Remember the cut shaft weight calcs above?   You effectively would be reducing that by 1/2" or around 1.6 gm for the DG x100's since that 5 irons shaft would be going into the 6 iron.

[Trap Junior]

Great info as ever Stuart!

[Trap Junior]

So I built a set with x100 and have been playing them a month or so.  The mid and short irons are performing well.  However the 3 and 4 iron fly too low and roll too much upon release.

 

I am hitting my irons more solidly now than in  years and I feel its the weight of the shafts and possibly growing up with S300s as a teen and early 20s.

 

I suppose the question is do I change the whole set because the long irons are not quite right?  Is it the shaft or the clubhead or both?

 

Can bumping up loft only  in the long irons fix this or is this a bad idea ?

 

 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Trap Junior said:

Can bumping up loft only  in the long irons fix this or is this a bad idea ?

 

Not a bad idea at all.  It's the first thing you should try although impossible to say whether it will be enough or not.  But worst case is if it doesn't work you may want to bend them back if you find you need to go to a lighter shaft in the longer irons (maybe AMT's?).

 

The next option (before switching shafts) is maybe try to find a way to lighten the head weights (swing weight - test by choking up 1/2" and even 1").  If that does help, going to 3/8" length progressions instead of 1/2" might be a possible solution since it will give a gradually lighter swing weight progression.

[Trap Junior]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Not a bad idea at all.  It's the first thing you should try although impossible to say whether it will be enough or not.  But worst case is if it doesn't work you may want to bend them back if you find you need to go to a lighter shaft in the longer irons (maybe AMT's?).

 

The next option (before switching shafts) is maybe try to find a way to lighten the head weights (swing weight - test by choking up 1/2" and even 1").  If that does help, going to 3/8" length progressions instead of 1/2" might be a possible solution since it will give a gradually lighter swing weight progression.

I am currently:

PW 46.5

9 42.5

8 38.5

7 34.5

6 30.5

5. 27.5

4. 24.5

3. 21

 

If I make my 4 iron 25.5 will there be enough of a yardage gapping from my 27.5 degree 5 iron?

 

P.S. I built the entire set to D2.5 swingweight.

 

Does lighter swingweight mean more dynamic loft due to less mass on the clubhead end?

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Stuart_G]

8 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

I am currently:

PW 46.5

9 42.5

8 38.5

7 34.5

6 30.5

5. 27.5

4. 24.5

3. 21

 

If I make my 4 iron 25.5 will there be enough of a yardage gapping from my 27.5 degree 5 iron?

 

That depends on your swing.   If the current carry distance gap is really too small because the launch is too low, it will likely help but there is not enough info for me to tell.   There are certainly no guarantees.  There is always going to be a point (depending on the swing) where an individual just can't manage irons with lofts lower than a certain point.

 

8 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

P.S. I built the entire set to D2.5 swingweight.

 

Does lighter swingweight mean more dynamic loft due to less mass on the clubhead end?

 

The lower swing weight might allow you to release the club a little bit earlier (or faster) and deliver more dynamic loft into impact.

[Poolparty]

In addition to what Stuart said (brilliant in this thread,) you could softstep or weight sort the long irons to give you somewhat of a flighted set. If you're mashing the 5 iron on down I wouldn't consider changing them