slicefixer...any videos of your swing?

[WorkingOnIt]

easygolfer, your YouTube video link is broken. I have seen your son's swing before and it looks great. I hope his season goes well.

[slicefixer]

slice i see you are online you mentioned that you don't like the right shoulder working under and i understand what you mean

question how would you correct this ?

would you pivot harder left? i can't imagine you would try to throw your right shoulder more around on top of the ball?

 

 

Well, the first thing is this, the SHAFT MUST be ON or UNDER plane and the clubface SQUARE to OPEN or your FORCED to work underneath BEFORE you can "go left"........that's MY problem........I went through a 4 year period in my 20's where I struck the golf ball unbelievably bad (result of VERY, VERY poor advice in an effort to increase distance.......more or less cost me my college career, etc......whatever I learned about the golf swing is a result of my own journey to "get it back") as a result of getting my arms WAAAAAY behind my rear end and attempting to swing "inside - out".........once I figured out the problem I swore my arms would never get behind my arse again as long as I was breathing (causes all kinds of problems that must be corrected in the transition or downswing).......anyway, as a result I ended up with a tendency to get ABOVE a reasonable plane and was forced to work "underneath" (like Nick Price) to shallow the arms/shaft.......ANYtime I go without a bit of practice (I haven't really practiced since 95' and the videos on YouTube were shot in 02' - 05') I'll have a tendency to work TOO "underneath" and get a bit "flicky"/"scoopy" (you get too much underneath and you can't trap the ball very effectively)......I can fix it with a bit of practice pretty easily.......

[slicefixer]

go to youtube, search slicefixer.there are lots of swings there from slices students to his own

 

 

Yep, on YouTube as I type this.........HOWEVER, I must warn you that I only filmed myself whenever I was swinging poorly so in all but one swing I'm waaay too much underneath and "cuppy" (My "swing tendency" caused from several years of TRYING to swing from "underneath" (I got VERY good at it too :)) ......not very good swings compared to my best.......when swinging my best I was more " open and on top" and compressing the fire out of it.........the lil' draw aimed at the dead oak tree was pretty good as that one was a decent swing and was used as a demo to show a good player that a draw COULD be hit without "swinging inside-out and rolling the wrists"... :D .....all the shots were fine, but, were not nearly the best swings I've made in my life.......(not to mention there over 10 years post "prime"....hehehehe)

 

Slicefixer, you have a slightly compact yet powerful swing. Very very nice and seemed repeatable with ease. Which club was in the clip that was aiming at the dead oak tree? Was it an 8?

 

 

Best I remember it was a 6 iron.......(MY favorite practice iron besides and LW)

[slicefixer]

Beautiful, simple swing. A little OPS in your swing theories? Inquiring minds...

 

Kevin

 

 

Yes, SOME similarities, but, some SERIOUS differences too..........and I figured out my deal LONG before anyone had heard of Jim Hardy (including myself)..... :)

 

 

SF, speaking about differences between OP and your swing theory - it's worth an independent thread since I presume that you would mention the same differences as between Mr.Hogan's late swing and OPS. What would you think about a good discussion about the matter ?

 

BTW, please add me also to the list of waiting for SF's material: [email protected] Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers

 

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

[easygolfer]

Hi KOC,

 

Check this out :

 

http://shop.thesecretofhogansswing.com/main.sc :)

[slicefixer]

[ i can't imagine you would try to throw your right shoulder more around on top of the ball?

 

NO WAY.......the shoulders simply "unwind" around pretty much the same spine tilt as you set at address.........

[slicefixer]

Sir Slicefixer, several attempt were made to send massage to you but could not get thru, it said your box is full! very hard to be get in touch with very busy man like you, hope this is a good opportunity to talk to you, special thanks for the initiation of this thread.

 

Herewith I would like to get a copy to my email at [email protected] and thank you very much beforehand, your rusty swings still amaze me, also I saw a swing from little kid there, that was awesome a modern Hoganese swings !

I would be very much appreciated if you could visit my U tube at highballguru and those are a bunch of swing videos that I took from last year to present, likewise it is not the best swings up there, with that said I assume that's the real swings that will perform under the pressure, so everybody welcome to have wild critique as well, b/c that's plenty room to said and I need your help, once again be wild....that's the purpose I posted those videos.... this is one of the example

 

 

Cheer!

 

sorry for poor English.

 

 

 

Thanks Easy........just email me as PM's are a pain in the arse (be patient too as it some times takes me a few days to get caught up)........the link is in my personal bio here...........the kid is my son when he was 7.......better than that now at 10 (he's a "veteran"...hehehe)....... :)

[Redhaze737]

He gave me a drill : when i was swing underneath my swing plane: shut face drill I still do it!!

 

Kinda embarrassing but I hit 15- 20 balls during a practice session with it.. Usually 8 -10 at the start 8 - 10 in the middle..

 

It s really not an exciting drill it does work ..It will not happen over night...

 

Good luck

 

Would you add a little more explanation to your drill comment please. I've been attempting to get rid of a hip slide, right shoulder down, below the plane inside out swing and I'm interested in any drills or information on getting rid of that.

 

Aloha.

 

Never mind, found it in the compilation. Thanks.

[Dariusz J.]

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

 

 

Fair enough :) But I did not want to discuss the Hardy's OP swing principles per se, what I suggested was to discuss rather Mr.Hogan's post-accident swing and the differences between his swing and OP swing principles. I can also name a few - among others exactly the one you mentioned...but after hours of analyzing I still can find more similarities than differences (that's why I am a OPS devotee, since I have not found a better theory that could describe what Mr.Hogan did - frankly!). I thought it would be a good swing discussion, nothing more :D

 

Cheers

[rosskoss]

Can I get a copy too please?

 

[email protected]

 

I've been trying to PM slicefixer for about a month now to no avail. Every time I send a PM, I get a message saying that his inbox is full. :)

[beachgrovejunior]

I didn't compile the file but here is it. :)

 

 

Can I get a copy too please?

 

[email protected]

 

I've been trying to PM slicefixer for about a month now to no avail. Every time I send a PM, I get a message saying that his inbox is full. :D

 

there you go

 

oops it didnt show the attachment but look at post 60 by spider

[rosskoss]

Thank's fellas! This is a monster compilation and it'll take me a long time to go through it all. Hope to learn quite a bit.

[gatorhead]

as a result of getting my arms WAAAAAY behind my rear end and attempting to swing "inside - out".........once I figured out the problem I swore my arms would never get behind my arse again as long as I was breathing (causes all kinds of problems that must be corrected in the transition or downswing).......anyway, as a result I ended up with a tendency to get ABOVE a reasonable plane and was forced to work "underneath" (like Nick Price) to shallow the arms/shaft.......

 

 

just wanted to get a little clarification on something...are you saying that at the top of the swing, the hands should not be behind your "arse"? If you are, I might have just found a major flaw in my swing.

[slicefixer]

as a result of getting my arms WAAAAAY behind my rear end and attempting to swing "inside - out".........once I figured out the problem I swore my arms would never get behind my arse again as long as I was breathing (causes all kinds of problems that must be corrected in the transition or downswing).......anyway, as a result I ended up with a tendency to get ABOVE a reasonable plane and was forced to work "underneath" (like Nick Price) to shallow the arms/shaft.......

 

 

just wanted to get a little clarification on something...are you saying that at the top of the swing, the hands should not be behind your "arse"? If you are, I might have just found a major flaw in my swing.

 

 

Well, depends on where your arms actually are in relation to your core.........but, out of synch and behind is a BAD deal and NOT what Mr. Hogan did nor is what you'll see in my students golf swings.......and it WON'T work with my preferred "ideal" golf swing without some serious compensating motion in the transition......and I HATE UNnecessary motion...........

[slicefixer]

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

 

 

Fair enough :) But I did not want to discuss the Hardy's OP swing principles per se, what I suggested was to discuss rather Mr.Hogan's post-accident swing and the differences between his swing and OP swing principles. I can also name a few - among others exactly the one you mentioned...but after hours of analyzing I still can find more similarities than differences (that's why I am a OPS devotee, since I have not found a better theory that could describe what Mr.Hogan did - frankly!). I thought it would be a good swing discussion, nothing more :D

 

Cheers

 

 

Dariuz, I'm just not interested in it anymore........I've spoken "my peace" about Jim Hardy's theories......good teacher, a method with "merit," and, IMOP, while it does share SOME similarities to Mr. Hogan's golf swing ( rotary.....flattish armswing, etc.) it's really not all that close to what Mr. Hogan did within' his swing (Olin Browne DOES Hardy's 1 plane swing so IF you think his swing is similar to Mr. Hogan's then I can understand your feelings).......The biggest reason for MY feelings regarding the "1 Plane Swing" is this........ IF, I repeat, IF Jim Hardy actually says Ben Hogan "started a lawnmower with his right arm" then he simply hasn't studied the man's golf swing very much........NOW, if he says the PIVOT (minus the arms) was similar to "starting a lawnmower" then I'd agree 100%........I can tell you this with 100% certainty, I know a way of swinging a golf club that is MUCH closer to Mr. Hogan's golf swing than Hardy's 1 Plane.........IMOP anyway........and it does NOT involve the right arm (righty) "starting a lawnmower" and "right arm throwover" transitions, etc. etc........and, IF my understanding of those moves is correct, Mr. Hogan didn't exhibit them either........

 

NOW, with all of that being stated again, until I hear some of this stuff explained by Mr. Hardy himself I'll give him the benefit of the doubt regarding Mr. Hogan's golf swing and move on to some other topic..........If there is ONE thing I've learned over the years that the "story" changes, sometimes dramatically, once it exits the originators mouth......... ;)

[Texsport]

I read thru Slicefixer's compilation this morning and have already improved my address position with the driver, my grip, and my backswing synchronization.

 

A long, enjoyable range session resulted.

 

This site is great!

 

Texsport

[slicefixer]

I read thru Slicefixer's compilation this morning and have already improved my address position with the driver, my grip, and my backswing synchronization.

 

A long, enjoyable range session resulted.

 

This site is great!

 

Texsport

 

Hey Tex, do you have a copy of our Ballard debate from BSG? I cannot believe it, but, BSG DELETES threads after a year and it's gone.........THAT was a classic debate and was conducted in the appropriate spirit........."spirit withOUT venom"......... :)

[xiaoxiong]

I read thru Slicefixer's compilation this morning and have already improved my address position with the driver, my grip, and my backswing synchronization.

 

A long, enjoyable range session resulted.

 

This site is great!

 

Texsport

 

Same here !!! I read 1st several pages on my typical commuter train home last Friday, and already had a major discovery regarding backswing takeaway: SF's suggestion of no forearm rotation in first 12 - 18 inch/clubhead travel in parallel with target line /and keeping right knee flex make me feel much tension on my right inner thigh and weight transfer. This is like a revelation !!! This initial 12-18 inch of your backswing indeed has a major bearing on your swing!

 

Thanks again, Slice. Really appreciated. Now I am going to train my 2 year old boy with those "bible" :) BTW, my boy is amazing, have pretty good hand-eye coordination and above all, love practice, aka, carrying the club in his tiny hands and hitting everything with it :D

 

 

cheers,

 

Jay

[Texsport]

I read thru Slicefixer's compilation this morning and have already improved my address position with the driver, my grip, and my backswing synchronization.

 

A long, enjoyable range session resulted.

 

This site is great!

 

Texsport

 

Hey Tex, do you have a copy of our Ballard debate from BSG? I cannot believe it, but, BSG DELETES threads after a year and it's gone.........THAT was a classic debate and was conducted in the appropriate spirit........."spirit withOUT venom"......... :)

 

Slicefixer,

 

I'm pretty sure I do. I'll look for what was on line. There were also some emails and PMs which I think I've got.

 

I noticed part of it was in the combilation of your comments.

 

I'll put together what I can find. And---thanks again for everything.

 

Man, the swing is a lot easier when you do the right things. You can just feel it in the right slot with no effort needed to turn and compress the ball.

 

Texsport

[hayam]

Hehe.. slice fixer should make a book about his pattern. Would sell for sure.

 

Remember not to use too much ... ... .... hehehehe...

[mizuno67]

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

 

 

Fair enough :) But I did not want to discuss the Hardy's OP swing principles per se, what I suggested was to discuss rather Mr.Hogan's post-accident swing and the differences between his swing and OP swing principles. I can also name a few - among others exactly the one you mentioned...but after hours of analyzing I still can find more similarities than differences (that's why I am a OPS devotee, since I have not found a better theory that could describe what Mr.Hogan did - frankly!). I thought it would be a good swing discussion, nothing more :D

 

Cheers

 

 

Dariuz, I'm just not interested in it anymore........I've spoken "my peace" about Jim Hardy's theories......good teacher, a method with "merit," and, IMOP, while it does share SOME similarities to Mr. Hogan's golf swing ( rotary.....flattish armswing, etc.) it's really not all that close to what Mr. Hogan did within' his swing (Olin Browne DOES Hardy's 1 plane swing so IF you think his swing is similar to Mr. Hogan's then I can understand your feelings).......The biggest reason for MY feelings regarding the "1 Plane Swing" is this........ IF, I repeat, IF Jim Hardy actually says Ben Hogan "started a lawnmower with his right arm" then he simply hasn't studied the man's golf swing very much........NOW, if he says the PIVOT (minus the arms) was similar to "starting a lawnmower" then I'd agree 100%........I can tell you this with 100% certainty, I know a way of swinging a golf club that is MUCH closer to Mr. Hogan's golf swing than Hardy's 1 Plane.........IMOP anyway........and it does NOT involve the right arm (righty) "starting a lawnmower" and "right arm throwover" transitions, etc. etc........and, IF my understanding of those moves is correct, Mr. Hogan didn't exhibit them either........

 

NOW, with all of that being stated again, until I hear some of this stuff explained by Mr. Hardy himself I'll give him the benefit of the doubt regarding Mr. Hogan's golf swing and move on to some other topic..........If there is ONE thing I've learned over the years that the "story" changes, sometimes dramatically, once it exits the originators mouth......... ;)

 

maybe hardy found out that hogan mowed lawns for an extra dollar when he was a kid that must be the "secret" im off to the hardware store to buy a lawnmower lol

[Dariusz J.]

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

 

 

Fair enough :) But I did not want to discuss the Hardy's OP swing principles per se, what I suggested was to discuss rather Mr.Hogan's post-accident swing and the differences between his swing and OP swing principles. I can also name a few - among others exactly the one you mentioned...but after hours of analyzing I still can find more similarities than differences (that's why I am a OPS devotee, since I have not found a better theory that could describe what Mr.Hogan did - frankly!). I thought it would be a good swing discussion, nothing more :D

 

Cheers

 

 

Dariuz, I'm just not interested in it anymore........I've spoken "my peace" about Jim Hardy's theories......good teacher, a method with "merit," and, IMOP, while it does share SOME similarities to Mr. Hogan's golf swing ( rotary.....flattish armswing, etc.) it's really not all that close to what Mr. Hogan did within' his swing (Olin Browne DOES Hardy's 1 plane swing so IF you think his swing is similar to Mr. Hogan's then I can understand your feelings).......The biggest reason for MY feelings regarding the "1 Plane Swing" is this........ IF, I repeat, IF Jim Hardy actually says Ben Hogan "started a lawnmower with his right arm" then he simply hasn't studied the man's golf swing very much........NOW, if he says the PIVOT (minus the arms) was similar to "starting a lawnmower" then I'd agree 100%........I can tell you this with 100% certainty, I know a way of swinging a golf club that is MUCH closer to Mr. Hogan's golf swing than Hardy's 1 Plane.........IMOP anyway........and it does NOT involve the right arm (righty) "starting a lawnmower" and "right arm throwover" transitions, etc. etc........and, IF my understanding of those moves is correct, Mr. Hogan didn't exhibit them either........

 

NOW, with all of that being stated again, until I hear some of this stuff explained by Mr. Hardy himself I'll give him the benefit of the doubt regarding Mr. Hogan's golf swing and move on to some other topic..........If there is ONE thing I've learned over the years that the "story" changes, sometimes dramatically, once it exits the originators mouth......... :cheesy:

 

OK, mate ;) Let's forget the topic...just to add, the lawnmower move was also never my favourite move as well (so there are 2 of them already in that we are in agrement...LOL); ideally, I'd like to be a devotee of TrueHoganSwing.com but I did not find anything like that. I still think that from the well-known theories OPS theory is the closest and a good base to go deeper, that's why I stick to it. When I have found this Forum and your wisdom here I would like to learn something more from you - that's why I mentioned an eventual discussion. Hope all is clear and you're not mad at me ;)

 

If you don't mind I'll participate anyhow in a future discussions with you concerning Hogan's swing.

 

Cheers

[slicefixer]

Not really, to be honest I'm not sure anyone would really care and I'm kinda' sick of talkin' about Hardy's stuff.....PLENTY of stuff already on here anyway.......His stuff "is what it is" and WILL work......he believes the ARMS are swung from BEHIND the body and I thnk that's TERRIBLE advice........best you can do is end up a "medium-low fader" as your stock game.......IMOP anyway.......

 

 

Fair enough :) But I did not want to discuss the Hardy's OP swing principles per se, what I suggested was to discuss rather Mr.Hogan's post-accident swing and the differences between his swing and OP swing principles. I can also name a few - among others exactly the one you mentioned...but after hours of analyzing I still can find more similarities than differences (that's why I am a OPS devotee, since I have not found a better theory that could describe what Mr.Hogan did - frankly!). I thought it would be a good swing discussion, nothing more :D

 

Cheers

 

 

Dariuz, I'm just not interested in it anymore........I've spoken "my peace" about Jim Hardy's theories......good teacher, a method with "merit," and, IMOP, while it does share SOME similarities to Mr. Hogan's golf swing ( rotary.....flattish armswing, etc.) it's really not all that close to what Mr. Hogan did within' his swing (Olin Browne DOES Hardy's 1 plane swing so IF you think his swing is similar to Mr. Hogan's then I can understand your feelings).......The biggest reason for MY feelings regarding the "1 Plane Swing" is this........ IF, I repeat, IF Jim Hardy actually says Ben Hogan "started a lawnmower with his right arm" then he simply hasn't studied the man's golf swing very much........NOW, if he says the PIVOT (minus the arms) was similar to "starting a lawnmower" then I'd agree 100%........I can tell you this with 100% certainty, I know a way of swinging a golf club that is MUCH closer to Mr. Hogan's golf swing than Hardy's 1 Plane.........IMOP anyway........and it does NOT involve the right arm (righty) "starting a lawnmower" and "right arm throwover" transitions, etc. etc........and, IF my understanding of those moves is correct, Mr. Hogan didn't exhibit them either........

 

NOW, with all of that being stated again, until I hear some of this stuff explained by Mr. Hardy himself I'll give him the benefit of the doubt regarding Mr. Hogan's golf swing and move on to some other topic..........If there is ONE thing I've learned over the years that the "story" changes, sometimes dramatically, once it exits the originators mouth......... :cheesy:

 

OK, mate ;) Let's forget the topic...just to add, the lawnmower move was also never my favourite move as well (so there are 2 of them already in that we are in agrement...LOL); ideally, I'd like to be a devotee of TrueHoganSwing.com but I did not find anything like that. I still think that from the well-known theories OPS theory is the closest and a good base to go deeper, that's why I stick to it. When I have found this Forum and your wisdom here I would like to learn something more from you - that's why I mentioned an eventual discussion. Hope all is clear and you're not mad at me ;)

 

If you don't mind I'll participate anyhow in a future discussions with you concerning Hogan's swing.

 

Cheers

 

Dariuz, NO worries my friend.......I enjoy reading your comments and know you've done your homework.......I just don't want to be construed as a person who is bashing/dissing other's methods and that's seemingly what happens whenever I post anything regarding another "pattern"..... :cheesy: Funny thing is, I'm NOT against S&T/OPS/MORAD or any other method that I KNOW will work.......to the contrary, I'm just posting my opinion and whenever I do I ALWAYS try and be fair and explain why I formed my opinion, etc. I think Jim Hardy/Mac O'Grady/P&B are all fine teachers with passion to help other golfers, but, IF I see some "holes" I post em'........I've also invited others to go check out the video's on YouTube, any post I leave, etc. and criticize away.......as long as it's legitimate criticism backed with sound reasoning I'll answer em' too........HONEST criticism with sound reasoning is a great way to LEARN and IMPROVE one's teaching....... :cheesy:

 

As for Jim Hardy, I greatly respect the man and one of his staunchest associates (Marty Fleckman) and I don't want to be labeled as some kind of OPS "basher"........nor do I want to be construed as some kind of MORAD/S&T basher, but, the "overzealous" WILL do just that and that "bothers" me a great deal........I hope you understand.......

 

AS for Mr. Hogan, he's been MY idol since I was a VERY young boy and I KNOW I've done MY "homework" on his golf swing and the man himself so I CAN get a bit "overzealous" when it comes to ANYthing "Hogan"........I also feel that I "know" his golf swing as well as anyone on earth and can spot BS in regards to his golf swing in a nano-second.........as a result, it upsets me to "see things" I know are simply not accurate IF it's an obvious attempt to "profit" from a book, etc. that is SPECIFICALLY using Mr. Hogan as some kind of "pack mule" for their theory/teaching.......I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but, the "spirit" of Mr. Hogan is kinda' sacred to me and I despise those who use it to "profit"/"promote" their theories IF I'm positive they are obviously doing just that....... I hope you understand............

[Dariusz J.]

Yes, I understand you perfectly. For me, Hogan's swing is sort of a "sacred one", too. I also do not like when many golf schools try to "own" Hogan's swing as one of theirs...

...I am an average amateur, you're a great pro golfer - therefore, you did not want a "base" to work out Hogan's swing methodology - I needed it, thus, I tried to collect all possible swing methods that make me closer to the swing of my golfing idol. Moreover, I am aware of the fact that no matter how huge my theoretical knowledge are and no matter how huge my analytic abilities are - my DNA will never allow to have the same swing Mr.Hogan had. But I would like very much to "copy" the essence of his swing and incorporate it to myself...remember, I did not know what golf is 7 years ago...:)

 

When winter ends I'll try to post my swing for you to have a look and explain what motions and swing thoughts are in it (all my knowledge of principles of Hogan's swing: from my personal analysis and from knowledge I was lucky to gain from all great golf fora, including this one, of course) - and then, if you have a free 5 minutes to comment it - I'll be all ears.

 

All the best !

[slicefixer]

Yes, I understand you perfectly. For me, Hogan's swing is sort of a "sacred one", too. I also do not like when many golf schools try to "own" Hogan's swing as one of theirs...

...I am an average amateur, you're a great pro golfer - therefore, you did not want a "base" to work out Hogan's swing methodology - I needed it, thus, I tried to collect all possible swing methods that make me closer to the swing of my golfing idol. Moreover, I am aware of the fact that no matter how huge my theoretical knowledge are and no matter how huge my analytic abilities are - my DNA will never allow to have the same swing Mr.Hogan had. But I would like very much to "copy" the essence of his swing and incorporate it to myself...remember, I did not know what golf is 7 years ago...:)

 

When winter ends I'll try to post my swing for you to have a look and explain what motions and swing thoughts are in it (all my knowledge of principles of Hogan's swing: from my personal analysis and from knowledge I was lucky to gain from all great golf fora, including this one, of course) - and then, if you have a free 5 minutes to comment it - I'll be all ears.

 

All the best !

 

 

Email........ :D

[ericld]

SFixer - What are your thoughts on teaching juniors the Jim Flick principle of not jumping your body around and yanking the club through, but rather a "body follows the instrument (club)" idea? Letting the club pull the body around?

 

My daughter is 13 and plays in national tournaments including FCWT, Desert Junior/Plantations, and CJGA. She is one of those taller lanky girls who is extremely slender and flexible. When she is trying to cook a drive off the tee (if she has been paired with bigger/older girls) she will actually fire her hips 100% open to the target before starting her downswing - and sometimes even have her belt buckle PAST the target at impact! In the photo (which is over a year old - the problem is worse now) she has had her hips where they are now since way before impact. Her hips are actually slightly pointed to those houses, bad angle. It all happens very fast.

 

We've seen it on video and its amazingly cool but a bit unreliable and she can spray if she is aggressive. Telling them to hold off firing the hips and letting the weight of the club pull them around goes against the Hogan principles but seems to help those juniors whose flexibility can get them into trouble. Your thoughts

 

Thanks

 

 

Hopefully this is not too :)

[slicefixer]

SFixer - What are your thoughts on teaching juniors the Jim Flick principle of not jumping your body around and yanking the club through, but rather a "body follows the instrument (club)" idea? Letting the club pull the body around?

 

My daughter is 13 and plays in national tournaments including FCWT, Desert Junior/Plantations, and CJGA. She is one of those taller lanky girls who is extremely slender and flexible. When she is trying to cook a drive off the tee (if she has been paired with bigger/older girls) she will actually fire her hips 100% open to the target before starting her downswing - and sometimes even have her belt buckle PAST the target at impact! In the photo (which is over a year old - the problem is worse now) she has had her hips where they are now since way before impact. Her hips are actually slightly pointed to those houses, bad angle. It all happens very fast.

 

We've seen it on video and its amazingly cool but a bit unreliable and she can spray if she is aggressive. Telling them to hold off firing the hips and letting the weight of the club pull them around goes against the Hogan principles but seems to help those juniors whose flexibility can get them into trouble. Your thoughts

 

Thanks

 

 

Hopefully this is not too ;)

 

 

 

I think Ole' Coach is simply wrong...........

 

With almost all kids below the age of 12 their CORE is a helluva' LOT stronger than their arms.....in fact, 99 of 100 could NEVER play golf worth a darn trying to strike it with their arms........they simply cannot create enough "speed" to strike the ball effectively........it also breeds "hitting AT the ball rather than SWINGING through it" and once that "hit impulse" is ingrained it's a pain to excise.......in some cases virtually impossible.........

 

Here is what I tell parents of kids' 10 and under (in most cases anyway)........"get their hands on the club correctly........set them up on reasonably fundamental posture angles........teach them to wind up and unwind and knock all hell from it and FINISH in perfect balance "posted up".........you teach em' to do that and they WILL ingrain a great "foundation" for a fantastic golf swing in the future........

 

My 10 year old has a pretty darn good swing and has had one almost since day one.......I did NOTHING more than what's written above until he came to me last summer and said he didn't want to play baseball anymore but wanted to concentrate on golf.......THAT'S when I started really "teaching him".......but, he's been around "it" and good players all of his life so he's had some pretty good actions to "mimic" too.......he's actually a pretty good lil' teacher in his own right.......amazing the things he can spot and then explain for a kid so young.......but, I know I'm a proud papa too........ :) (btw, we're "toning down" his legs right now.......:ok:)

 

Eric, nowadays, once a kid reaches the collegiate level, they MUST be able to generate enough speed to CARRY the golf ball 280 yards in men's golf and 230 - 240 in women's golf (with reasonable accuracy) or they are at a significant disadvantage..........in men's golf they are giving up at least 2 shots per round to the field on most courses and 4 or 5 on some of the longer courses........waaaay too much to overcome and win without fantasy putting/chipping/course management/"scoring".........the women's game is a bit more forgiving, but, to truly be a "major" factor the girl needs to be able to carry it at least 230.......

 

In other words, "distance" is a PRErequisite in men's golf and is BECOMING one in the women's game.........given another 10 years the women will catch up.......so I would NEVER teach a kid to stand their with a "dead" body and "flap at it with their arms".........doesn't matter whether you release the club more down the line or more "around" the "speed" better be created from "inside-out" and not the other way around........IMOP.........

 

As for your daughter, she's using her LEGS and NOT her core and I'm not a big fan of that as the legs drive and the "hips spin" and the upper body gets "left behind" and the player has to release the club with their arms/hands (better than standing there flat footed and "hittin' at it with your arms" though)...you see, the "hips" CANNOT move by themselves as they are but a coupla' joints...........so SOMETHING MUST "motivate" the "hips" to move and it's either the LEGS or the LOWER Core/Core........My "ideal swing" uses the CORE and NOT the legs......in fact, the "feet" are pretty "quiet" when it's done properly............the "feet are reacting" as the legs are "quiet".........

 

Email me and perhaps I can help you with some drills/advice to "calm down her hips".......it's NOT that big of a deal to do once the player KNOWS "what ta' do"..... :)

[pbh]

What is the lower core?

[Dariusz J.]

With almost all kids below the age of 12 their CORE is a helluva' LOT stronger than their arms.....in fact, 99 of 100 could NEVER play golf worth a darn trying to strike it with their arms........they simply cannot create enough "speed" to strike the ball effectively........it also breeds "hitting AT the ball rather than SWINGING through it" and once that "hit impulse" is ingrained it's a pain to excise.......in some cases virtually impossible.........

 

Here is what I tell parents of kids' 10 and under (in most cases anyway)........"get their hands on the club correctly........set them up on reasonably fundamental posture angles........teach them to wind up and unwind and knock all hell from it and FINISH in perfect balance "posted up".........you teach em' to do that and they WILL ingrain a great "foundation" for a fantastic golf swing in the future........

 

My 10 year old has a pretty darn good swing and has had one almost since day one.......I did NOTHING more than what's written above until he came to me last summer and said he didn't want to play baseball anymore but wanted to concentrate on golf.......THAT'S when I started really "teaching him".......but, he's been around "it" and good players all of his life so he's had some pretty good actions to "mimic" too.......he's actually a pretty good lil' teacher in his own right.......amazing the things he can spot and then explain for a kid so young.......but, I know I'm a proud papa too........ :) (btw, we're "toning down" his legs right now.......;))

 

Eric, nowadays, once a kid reaches the collegiate level, they MUST be able to generate enough speed to CARRY the golf ball 280 yards in men's golf and 230 - 240 in women's golf (with reasonable accuracy) or they are at a significant disadvantage..........in men's golf they are giving up at least 2 shots per round to the field on most courses and 4 or 5 on some of the longer courses........waaaay too much to overcome and win without fantasy putting/chipping/course management/"scoring".........the women's game is a bit more forgiving, but, to truly be a "major" factor the girl needs to be able to carry it at least 230.......

 

In other words, "distance" is a PRErequisite in men's golf and is BECOMING one in the women's game.........given another 10 years the women will catch up.......so I would NEVER teach a kid to stand their with a "dead" body and "flap at it with their arms".........doesn't matter whether you release the club more down the line or more "around" the "speed" better be created from "inside-out" and not the other way around........IMOP.........

 

Excellent, simply excellent advice for all the parents ! Luckily to myself and, I do hope, also for my kid (he's 11 right now) I tried to 'coach' him in the spirit of Hogan clips and my one plane knowledge. What is most important - all what I taught him is not against the theory of SliceFixer that he wrote in the post above ! I only can regret that we do not know baseball here in Poland, since I can see how a baseball training may be useful...however, I am happy when I see my son hit 170 meter drives or hs great accuracy on the course :ok:

Thanks or your post, SF !

 

Cheers

[slicefixer]

With almost all kids below the age of 12 their CORE is a helluva' LOT stronger than their arms.....in fact, 99 of 100 could NEVER play golf worth a darn trying to strike it with their arms........they simply cannot create enough "speed" to strike the ball effectively........it also breeds "hitting AT the ball rather than SWINGING through it" and once that "hit impulse" is ingrained it's a pain to excise.......in some cases virtually impossible.........

 

Here is what I tell parents of kids' 10 and under (in most cases anyway)........"get their hands on the club correctly........set them up on reasonably fundamental posture angles........teach them to wind up and unwind and knock all hell from it and FINISH in perfect balance "posted up".........you teach em' to do that and they WILL ingrain a great "foundation" for a fantastic golf swing in the future........

 

My 10 year old has a pretty darn good swing and has had one almost since day one.......I did NOTHING more than what's written above until he came to me last summer and said he didn't want to play baseball anymore but wanted to concentrate on golf.......THAT'S when I started really "teaching him".......but, he's been around "it" and good players all of his life so he's had some pretty good actions to "mimic" too.......he's actually a pretty good lil' teacher in his own right.......amazing the things he can spot and then explain for a kid so young.......but, I know I'm a proud papa too........ :) (btw, we're "toning down" his legs right now.......;))

 

Eric, nowadays, once a kid reaches the collegiate level, they MUST be able to generate enough speed to CARRY the golf ball 280 yards in men's golf and 230 - 240 in women's golf (with reasonable accuracy) or they are at a significant disadvantage..........in men's golf they are giving up at least 2 shots per round to the field on most courses and 4 or 5 on some of the longer courses........waaaay too much to overcome and win without fantasy putting/chipping/course management/"scoring".........the women's game is a bit more forgiving, but, to truly be a "major" factor the girl needs to be able to carry it at least 230.......

 

In other words, "distance" is a PRErequisite in men's golf and is BECOMING one in the women's game.........given another 10 years the women will catch up.......so I would NEVER teach a kid to stand their with a "dead" body and "flap at it with their arms".........doesn't matter whether you release the club more down the line or more "around" the "speed" better be created from "inside-out" and not the other way around........IMOP.........

 

Excellent, simply excellent advice for all the parents ! Luckily to myself and, I do hope, also for my kid (he's 11 right now) I tried to 'coach' him in the spirit of Hogan clips and my one plane knowledge. What is most important - all what I taught him is not against the theory of SliceFixer that he wrote in the post above ! I only can regret that we do not know baseball here in Poland, since I can see how a baseball training may be useful...however, I am happy when I see my son hit 170 meter drives or hs great accuracy on the course :ok:

Thanks or your post, SF !

 

Cheers

 

 

Your most welcome.........and yes, "modern" hitting technique has a great deal in common with "modern" golf instruction........I always wondered why I could always seemingly throw a football, hit a baseball, and play tennis without any instruction.......it was because my father placed a golf club in my hands at age 18 months and it's never "come out".......LOTS of parallels between hitting/throwing and the golf swing.......Hebron did a fantastic job in "The INSIDE Moves the OUTside".......one of golf's true classic instruction books IMOP.......influenced me enormously.......