New irons- loss of distance

[Dkpnole]

Hello!

 

So 2-3 months ago I got fitted into some new irons. Went from regular flex steelfiber 90fc to a 110 Stiff hardstepped. Felt way better for me when i went up in weight and I didn’t lose much speed if any per the launch monitor. 

 

In actual rounds of golf my shot accuracy is way better and my swing feels good. Big difference is I’ve lost about 15-20 yards of distance club to club. Even when I feel like crush it I’m not getting anywhere close distance wise (accuracy WAY up though!) lofts are about the same as my old set so the big difference is the weight and the stiffness. 
 

launch monitor results were not this drastic I lost maybe 2-3 yards on that but again picked up accuracy. real world im just not able to get more distance from them. 
 

im hitting my new PW 115 yards where I was closer to 130 prior. 7 iron 160 yards now vs almost 180 prior

 

any tips on how to work my distances back up or noticing anything with my swing that could be costing me? 
 

I know distance isn’t everything but it’s created a weird gap at the top of my bag for the 175-200 yard range and the lower side 125-135 feels awkward

 

 

[Valtiel]

There are lots of things that could be going on here but it'll be hard to pin down what is club related and what is swing related, especially without a better camera angle. We *can* comment on what might be causing issues without considering the previous clubs though, because from a swing standpoint you have some pretty severe things going on. You appear to be massively over the top based on your alignment since you're pulling the ball what looks like roughly 50-75+ yards left of where you're actually aiming, and you're doing some pretty drastic things with your body to facilitate this. The extreme lines this creates, specifically the sort of face to path relationship created, can be a massive power leak depending on how you're hitting the ball that day. Over the top + steep like you're doing here can cause some big dynamic loft issues (too high) which in turn can jack and spin and drop distance. I can break this down much better with neutral down the line camera angles. 

As for the difference when it comes to the clubs, as you mentioned you went up in static weight pretty noticeably which resulted in better accuracy, which is good. You likely lost speed on the course though which is predictable, and your ability to manage these extreme mechanical issues likely shifted a bit. Combine that with unrealistic distance expectations and it all adds up. To use myself as an example to explain that, I play fairly heavy clubs with heavy shafts. I *could* gain another 10+ yards pretty easily by simply dropping a bunch of weight, but my accuracy would probably suffer in equal measure. That distance I would gain is not something to chase, because everyone can gain yards at the expense of consistency and accuracy by dropping weight, but those aren't useable yards. It sounds like you've mistakenly considered this to be a benchmark when in reality the lighter clubs allowed you to manage/get away with your mechanical issues more from a speed standpoint. Now with heavier clubs your mechanics are likely holding you back and you're either producing less speed on the course as a result, or your delivery has changed in a way that creates less potential distance (higher dynamic loft and/or strike quality issues). 

Addressing the mechanical stuff is the key gaining back lost distance, and if you can get some better down the line video of your swing I can point to the elements you'd need to correct to do that. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Valtiel

[Dkpnole]

Thanks for the insight! 
 

i do struggle with the slight over the top, it’s inconsistent for me right now with it being there some days and not being a problem others. Here’s a better video I have here a 9 iron I want to say around 140 yard shot. This is what I’ve been trying to swing like and I feel like I struggle to get that same swing path that’s in this video and its been my best golf days when I’m emulating that. 
 

 

i do know about the over the top portion, but I’m not sure I understand why/how I’m coming in too steep. 

[ChipDriver]

From what you've written - it seems that if your swing is the same - and the only thing that is different is the clubs...then it's the clubs.

 

I assume you went to a launch monitor to get fitted (from what you seem to have written - losing 2-3 yards...)?    Therefore did you hit your new clubs on that same launch monitor?  If the clubs you received are similar to the club/shaft combo you used to get fitted - then the results should be the same.    I'm guessing that they won't be.   Mistakes happen between the fitter and the OEM builder...more often than you think.  

 

Whenever I get new clubs - I get fitted and keep the launch monitor results; then compare them again when I get the new clubs.  Every once in a while I need to  fiddle with one or two of the irons.   Good luck.

[Valtiel]

22 hours ago, Dkpnole said:

Thanks for the insight! 
 

i do struggle with the slight over the top, it’s inconsistent for me right now with it being there some days and not being a problem others. Here’s a better video I have here a 9 iron I want to say around 140 yard shot. This is what I’ve been trying to swing like and I feel like I struggle to get that same swing path that’s in this video and its been my best golf days when I’m emulating that. 
 

 

i do know about the over the top portion, but I’m not sure I understand why/how I’m coming in too steep. 

Thanks for that, this is much less pronounced looking than the first video.

Generally speaking you have a significant power leak in your sequencing because you're not using your lower body correctly:



Having virtually no difference in body positioning between address and impact combined with how much you're spinning out after...



...indicates that a massive amount of energy is being expended after the ball is already gone and you're basically making a 125% driver swing just to hit a 9i 140y. Not that that isn't a respectable distance, it's just that this swing is DeChambeau hitting the same club 190y in terms of effort. The reason for this is sequencing and this will tie in to distance problems and why you might be having them:



You have a pretty big hip turn for a 9-iron here, and your hands/arms are clearly leading the downswing which brings you over the top and, without absolutely lightning fast hips, you aren't able to achieve any clearance through impact which will tend to result in a cast/flip that increases dynamic loft and decreases distance. They way you're moving your hips is actually pretty good, it's just happening too late (or your arms are going too early) and this is leaving you flat footed. Check out this AMG video that breaks down how your transition is supposed to work. You're doing the "everything back/everything forward" thing they talk about in the beginning:
 

 

[Dkpnole]

Wow, that was an excellent easy to understand breakdown. Very impressed! I see what your talking about, going to do a little tweaking and shoot an updated video once I get a feel. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Dkpnole said:

Wow, that was an excellent easy to understand breakdown. Very impressed! I see what your talking about, going to do a little tweaking and shoot an updated video once I get a feel. 

Sounds good! I neglected to mention it above, but as this relates to your club change distance issue I look at it like this...

The hands and arms are not ideal *sources* of speed. They are fantastic at ADDING speed on top of something else, but as the origin they are volatile and inconsistent. Pulling down from the top with them immediately creates tension, which ironically results in LESS speed, something you might be doing more of in response to a heavier club (a likely source of your distance loss), and it also tends to steepen your path. Once you've tensed up these smaller hand/arm muscles they will want to travel in a straight line, but the ideal hand path is a bit of an arc down to the ball, a path that requires less tension in your hands/arms to follow:



It's subtle and varies from player to player, but it is all the product of proper sequencing where your hands/arms are (just for a split second) allowed be "thrown" in reaction to the driving of the lower body, specifically the external rotation of the left hip (driving back away from the ball). Pressure needs to be on your lead side In order to create these forces, and that is what brings us back around to the video I linked and the discussion about the importance of getting off your trail side and beginning the process of getting into your lead side much earlier than you think. 

[Dkpnole]

Here’s a shot today, tried just hitting some a little slower and trying to be more relaxed in my arms/grip and trigger the hips a tad earlier so it forces me to rotate vs throw my arms

 

hit a bunch, some good some meh, but want to know if this is trending in the right direction. It’s hard for me to not drop the shoulder and try to muscle through lol. also grounds not perfectly even here so couldn’t get a good straight behind shot 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Dkpnole said:

Here’s a shot today, tried just hitting some a little slower and trying to be more relaxed in my arms/grip and trigger the hips a tad earlier so it forces me to rotate vs throw my arms

 

hit a bunch, some good some meh, but want to know if this is trending in the right direction. It’s hard for me to not drop the shoulder and try to muscle through lol. also grounds not perfectly even here so couldn’t get a good straight behind shot 

 

 

 

I can see you're trying really hard to execute the concepts, but you're doing it in an overly aggressive and somewhat destructive manner which suggests you're going to need to start MUCH slower initially. You're doing the movements, but at speed you're not able to sync them up correctly yet:



First things first, this move suggests two problems that you'll need to address. First, you're still swaying too far right in your backswing, getting too far out on to the outside of your right foot. Focus more on pushing your right hip backwards and less on shifting so far over to your right side. This is again driver swing sized moves with a short iron that aren't necessary to create power. Second, your transition move shows you're trying to create the necessary rotation by firing your right side super hard and this is backwards. Everything about the transition move of re-centering and firing your left side is a left side focused motion, your right side needs to play minimal a role as it POSSIBLY can. You get off of that side in transition and you fire the left leg, at no time do you fire the right leg like you're doing here. YOu want to feel like your right side doesn't even exist anymore in the downswing, because being right handed and thus right side dominant you will want to try to use your more powerful side to create something in the downswing. You have to resist this, because the right side's job is ONLY to get you into the left side for it to takeover. It's a passing of the baton that means your right side needs to be completely unweighted as you move towards posting up completely on your left side.




You're firing your left leg back here, but you're still clearly planted on your two feet, almost falling back towards your right foot at impact. You need to feel posted up on left side with nothing on your right foot. After impact your right foot swings out towards where the ball was, this is always an indicator that you didn't get your weight off of it. You're also still spinning out a ton through impact, so overall you need to dial WAY back from an effort standpoint and focus on synchronizing these movements with little half punch shots before you try this at full speed.

[ChipDriver]

Are you saying that the new clubs have caused you to swing differently?   Hard to believe.

 

Don't overcomplicate a simple comparison.   Take your old club(s) and hit them again - do you hit them the same previous (longer) distances?   If so, then it's not your swing - the distance loss you are experiencing  is caused by your new clubs.

 

It can only be your swing, if you hit your old clubs a shorter distance.

[Dkpnole]

7 hours ago, ChipDriver said:

Are you saying that the new clubs have caused you to swing differently?   Hard to believe.

 

Don't overcomplicate a simple comparison.   Take your old club(s) and hit them again - do you hit them the same previous (longer) distances?   If so, then it's not your swing - the distance loss you are experiencing  is caused by your new clubs.

 

It can only be your swing, if you hit your old clubs a shorter distance.

i think the weight increase has def changed my tempo some adjusting but I don’t think it’s still an issue now that I’m used to them. I’m trying to see if there’s a flaw I’ve developed that’s hurt my distance that I’m not seeing. 

[ChipDriver]

3 hours ago, Dkpnole said:

i think the weight increase has def changed my tempo some adjusting but I don’t think it’s still an issue now that I’m used to them. I’m trying to see if there’s a flaw I’ve developed that’s hurt my distance that I’m not seeing. 

 

That makes no sense to me.   I look at fittings perhaps differently than you.

 

I get fit for new clubs every 5 years.  In a word - if the new clubs don't outperform my existing clubs - I'm not switching.   I have NEVER had a fitting where the clubs cause me to change my swing.  If that is the case - you've wasted your money.

 

The caveat I was warning about is that sometimes the clubs you receive do NOT fit the specs of the new club you were using at the fitting.   Errors in manufacturing occur frequently.

 

Maybe they put the wrong shaft in your clubs when they built them - and those are different than the club you used in your fitting.

 

I would have your fitter check the clubs you received to see if they match the club you were using at the fitting.   If there is an error in manufacturing - send them back.  Don't change your swing.  That's not a smart thing to do....it can screw up your golf game.  🙂   Good luck.