Swingweight help

Cwirk · December 1, 2022

Hello,

I ordered a set of Maltby DBM Forged Irons at a D4 swingweight with midsize grips. I am looking to take off the midsize grips and install a set of standard size grips. When looking for necessary weights for counterweighting or how much I would need to shorten the shaft, I wanted to see what each swingweight of each club was. I don't have access to a scale, so I used an online calculator. The image has all details, I am confused as top what the reasoning for this swingweight decrese as irons go higher and what the pattern is. Basically, what is going on?

ChristopherMcDonald · December 1, 2022

Online calculators are shaky at best. Good for estimating maybe.

how much does your midsize grip weigh and how much is the normal?

Howard_Jones · December 1, 2022

Total wgt progression shall be +/- 7 grams per club or 14 grams per inch, yours is 8 to 10 grams per inch.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Howard_Jones

Stuart_G · December 1, 2022

8 hours ago, Cwirk said:

I am confused as top what the reasoning for this swingweight decrese as irons go higher and what the pattern is. Basically, what is going on?

Are those the measurements with the ordered mid-sized grips?

Online calculators are very sensitive to measurement errors - especially for the balance point. Make sure you have that point accurate down to the millimeter or 1/32" (use a credit card to find the balance point). It almost looks like you're only going to the closest 1/4" - and that will not give you very good results.

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Total wgt progression shall be +/- 7 grams per club or 14 grams per inch, yours is 8 to 10 grams per inch.

7 gm is for constant weight shafts. It would make sense to have a smaller increment with parallel tip (descending weight) shafts.

Howard_Jones · December 1, 2022

42 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Are those the measurements with the ordered mid-sized grips?

Online calculators are very sensitive to measurement errors - especially for the balance point. Make sure you have that point accurate down to the millimeter or 1/32" (use a credit card to find the balance point). It almost looks like you're only going to the closest 1/4" - and that will not give you very good results.

7 gm is for constant weight shafts. It would make sense to have a smaller increment with parallel tip (descending weight) shafts.

Even Descending wgt shafts ends with a total wgt progression above 6 grams pr club or 12 grams pr inch when we use the most heavy models where weight can drop close to a gram per shaft when cut.

Then we have tolerances in both shaft and grip wgt, and if we use TTs GOLD standard, we have +/- 1.5 grams ,on the shaft, and if we use Golf Prides standard fro grip wgt tolerance, we have +/. 3.5 grams on the grips. As a sum this 2 can as a worse case scenario pull the expected total wgt off by 5 grams both ways, but if its mostly grip wgt, the same grip wgt will move any sw scale or SW calculator both ways.

In the OPs case, if D4 was target, and we say D4.4 is OK, the natural progression should have been

#5 - 440 grams (like it is)
#6 - 447 grams (not included from the OP)

#7 - 454 grams (2 grams is missing, and at 37.00" 1 SWP = 2.16 grams so its 0.9 SWP. its now D2.7 and would be D3.6 if 2 grams head wgt is added.
(another 1.73 grams is needed to bring it to D4.4)

#8 - 461 Grams (not included from the OP)

#9 - 468 grams (6 grams is missing, and 36.00" 1 SWP = 2.26 grams so 6 grams = 2.65 SWP. its now only D1.4 + 2.65 = D 4.05 if 6 grams is added.
(another 0.8 grams is needed to bring it to D4.4)

So, it can for the most be head wgt and I understand why the OP is asking, but its very important to KNOW net shaft and grip wgt to go by total wgt, and its very important to measure correct to the BP when we use online calks. but when both Total and SW can explain most, it looks like lack of head wgt.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Howard_Jones

Stuart_G · December 1, 2022

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Even Descending wgt shafts ends with a total wgt progression above 6 grams pr club or 12 grams pr inch when we use the most heavy models where weight can drop close to a gram per shaft when cut.

Rough calcs show:

~1.6 gm drop per 1/2" for a 130 gm, 41" shaft blank.

~1.2 gm drop per 1/4" for a 100 gm, 41" shaft blank.

Yes, close to 6 but still below.

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

Then we have tolerances in both shaft and grip wgt, and if we use TTs GOLD standard, we have +/- 1.5 grams ,on the shaft, and if we use Golf Prides standard fro grip wgt tolerance, we have +/. 3.5 grams on the grips. As a sum this 2 can as a worse case scenario pull the expected total wgt off by 5 grams both ways, but if its mostly grip wgt, the same grip wgt will move any sw scale or SW calculator both ways.

Yes. Not disagreeing with any of that or any other aspect of the posts.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Stuart_G

Cwirk · December 1, 2022

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Even Descending wgt shafts ends with a total wgt progression above 6 grams pr club or 12 grams pr inch when we use the most heavy models where weight can drop close to a gram per shaft when cut.

Then we have tolerances in both shaft and grip wgt, and if we use TTs GOLD standard, we have +/- 1.5 grams ,on the shaft, and if we use Golf Prides standard fro grip wgt tolerance, we have +/. 3.5 grams on the grips. As a sum this 2 can as a worse case scenario pull the expected total wgt off by 5 grams both ways, but if its mostly grip wgt, the same grip wgt will move any sw scale or SW calculator both ways.

In the OPs case, if D4 was target, and we say D4.4 is OK, the natural progression should have been

#5 - 440 grams (like it is)
#6 - 447 grams (not included from the OP)

#7 - 454 grams (2 grams is missing, and at 37.00" 1 SWP = 2.16 grams so its 0.9 SWP. its now D2.7 and would be D3.6 if 2 grams head wgt is added.
(another 1.73 grams is needed to bring it to D4.4)

#8 - 461 Grams (not included from the OP)

#9 - 468 grams (6 grams is missing, and 36.00" 1 SWP = 2.26 grams so 6 grams = 2.65 SWP. its now only D1.4 + 2.65 = D 4.05 if 6 grams is added.
(another 0.8 grams is needed to bring it to D4.4)

So, it can for the most be head wgt and I understand why the OP is asking, but its very important to KNOW net shaft and grip wgt to go by total wgt, and its very important to measure correct to the BP when we use online calks. but when both Total and SW can explain most, it looks like lack of head wgt.

I appreciate the responses. For further information, the shaft is a 0.5" over length TT DG X100 .370 tip and the grips are the white midsize tour wraps from Golf Pride (apparently due to compounds needed to make these grips white they weight about 65-66 grams).

So far from my understanding, my diy setup for measuring balance points won't cut it. To be honest I will try and make the drive to a shop and spend some time getting the clubs on a scale.

I have read your post regarding counterweighting and overall deduction of swingweight points and assuming all swingweights would go up 3-3.5 SW depending on grip, how should I go about reducing the swingweights I end up with. I get I can shorten the shaft and that is an option, but also I am not opposed to counterweighting because it may be fooling the scale but I am alright with some extra heft to the shaft.

Howard_Jones · December 1, 2022

1 hour ago, Cwirk said:

I appreciate the responses. For further information, the shaft is a 0.5" over length TT DG X100 .370 tip and the grips are the white midsize tour wraps from Golf Pride (apparently due to compounds needed to make these grips white they weight about 65-66 grams).

So far from my understanding, my diy setup for measuring balance points won't cut it. To be honest I will try and make the drive to a shop and spend some time getting the clubs on a scale.

I have read your post regarding counterweighting and overall deduction of swingweight points and assuming all swingweights would go up 3-3.5 SW depending on grip, how should I go about reducing the swingweights I end up with. I get I can shorten the shaft and that is an option, but also I am not opposed to counterweighting because it may be fooling the scale but I am alright with some extra heft to the shaft.

Forget counter weighting, we cant add weight and reduce heft, thats not possible, so its either head wgt reduction or shortening of play length.

On the SW scale, SW drops when we add weight (going to mid size), but it does not mean feel of head wgt or heft went down.