Driver question for Porzak followers

[me05501]

This year I'm committed to implementing the Porzak ideas in my full swing. This method seems to fit me and it is simple enough to implement so I'm focusing on these ideas while trying to tune out other tips/methods.  

 

Here are the fundamentals as I understand them: 

 

• Nailing the setup is a biggie including the mid-foot weight distribution, a feeling of stability down the trail leg and small hip bump toward the target. 
• The takeaway move to the first checkpoint should be a blend of keeping the hands going straight back over the toes and using the pad of the lead thumb to apply pressure to the grip and set the club with the club head outside the hands. This is the move that originally appealed to me as a lifelong inside sucker. 
• From there it's just a a matter of turning the ribcage to the top and back down through the ball while keeping your hips deep and your upper body connected.

 

My iron and wedge game has benefitted a lot as I've worked with these ideas. When I'm really hitting great iron shots it feels like there's no release at all. I know that it's impossible to not have any release, but I've always been a stall and flip guy so it helps me to think of a "no release" release. I finally feel like I'm covering the ball and compressing it. As Porzak describes it I feel like I'm swinging more underneath my body versus around it. 

 

Porzak does talk about trying to accelerate the arms from the top which matches up with the Justin Rose drill and other feels like keeping your back to the target longer. That's something I need to spend more time with. 

 

It's a little harder to feel this with the driver, probably due to the longer shaft and forward ball position, though in a few recent range sessions it seems like that "no release release" feeling can work even with the longer clubs. 

 

Seems like there are only a few public videos of Porzak addressing the driver specifically. If anyone else is following this method I'd be interested to hear whether you treat the driver exactly like any other club or make compensations around it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by me05501

[TourSpoon]

I have started following him but I only hone in on a few key concepts that he explains well (you mentioned some of these). I don't go too much into his player specific lessons because I just can't go down any rabbit holes that don't apply to me.  

• Setup - a universal starting point that can make or break you before you swing. He really makes this simple to understand. 
• Takeaway - I saved his drill where he breaks it down into 2 pieces with turn and hinge (or vice versa) then blending them together. This really hit home with me and I started using the alignment stick along the foot line to highlight hand path. This one drill has really paid dividends and is my go to. 
• More emphasis on body turn syncing with arms versus arms just winning (this is also part of the same lesson in takeaway). 

He doesn't have much with the driver, but I found that the takeaway drill that I do exclusively with short to mid irons has found its way into all my clubs. I was working with a guy when I moved and he had me exaggerating the opposite of inside takeaway. I did this for 6 weeks to break that inside move and then saw the Porzak drill that really refined it for me. When I finally made it back to my guy, the work had really paid off in all my swings. With driver, if I can get my setup right (my key is feeling more weight on inside right foot than with irons) along with a decent takeaway and tempo, it just happens at impact. The only driver specific thought I may work on in practice is to feel fully extended right at impact which in reality gets me through the ball. On the course, I try to just get the setup correct and feel loose without undue tension and focus on the target. 

 

With all this said, I really come back to one or two drills that apply to me. I work with an instructor (3-4 times a year) and make sure I understand what I need to work on and that is all I work on. 

 

[wagolfer7]

I've taken a lesson with him.  The driver is the same.  Little tilt away with wider stance. Same setup as everything else other than that. 

 

He's got a lot of accomplished students. And a lot of impressive juniors. He's also a very nice guy and was fun to be around.  

 

Good luck with his method. I know it's helped a lot of players.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by wagolfer7

[CasualLie]

True, there's not a lot of YouTube content on driver, but two subtle keys I've picked up on which make a big difference are:

 

1.  The hip bump he shows in many videos... Only a few videos get more nuanced  showing the hip bump is not only a little left, but it's also a little back.  I make sure my hip bump has more of a angle to it away from the ball.  It's one inch left, one inch back.  That subtlety makes a big difference in being able to rotate through.

 

2. (And this is more key).  With driver, at setup, I'm very intentional on doing the hip bump then as I bend forward, letting the club fall straight down in front of me, then I move the club up to the ball in it's proper position.  As opposed to just setting the club directly behind the ball immediately.  That small difference of starting the club centered then reaching towards the ball gives me a much better chance at coming in from the inside and getting good arm extension at the ball.  To some it might feel like a reach, but it's small,  and creates a nice arc.

 

These two small details has taken left side of the course of of play. I can rotate freely and release hard without worrying about the left side coming into play.

[me05501]

Thanks guys.

[TourSpoon]

Funny thing, all of a sudden two of his driver lessons popped up on my feed. They are listening to us! 

 

So I listened to what he was saying and found that the wall concept (impact drill he discussed in one of his lessons) is very similar to what I was talking about feeling extended at the ball. 

 

Again, I am very careful not to listen to everything because I don't want to internet diagnose. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by TourSpoon
grammar

[me05501]

Just now, TourSpoon said:

Again, I am very careful not to listen to everything because I don't want to internet diagnose. 

 

For sure. It has taken me a couple of years of flirtation with various channels/methods/ideas to find what I think is a good fit for me in the Porzak stuff. I'm consciously trying not to digest ideas or tips from other sources for the time being. I think understanding one method deeply will be better than drinking from the firehose. 

[me05501]

I had a good session today focused on driver and I think I'm starting to find the right feel. This was after a few frustrating simulator sessions this week when it seemed like I was hitting either perfect high draws or useless sh@nks.

 

Being out on a grass range today gave me a little more feedback and it started to occur to me that I was getting my weight out over my toes. As I focused on balancing my weight across my mid foot area I started to find more balance during my swing and my ball flight improved dramatically. 

 

I was also hitting a lot of balls with a head cover under my trail arm. This really helps get that feeling of connection and reminds me to make a full turn back and through. 

 

As I implemented these feels with my three wood and driver I was getting really good results. My ball was starting and staying on my intended line and going further than it has recently. 

 

I think getting grounded into the setup and continuing to emphasize that feeling of connection will be good for me. 

[wagolfer7]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:11 PM, wagolfer7 said:

Some of the fundamentals just didn't fit with me. And I feel like in hindsight, really set me back for awhile.  

 

48 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I had a good session today focused on driver and I think I'm starting to find the right feel. This was after a few frustrating simulator sessions this week when it seemed like I was hitting either perfect high draws or useless sh@nks.

 

Being out on a grass range today gave me a little more feedback and it started to occur to me that I was getting my weight out over my toes. As I focused on balancing my weight across my mid foot area I started to find more balance during my swing and my ball flight improved dramatically. 

 

I was also hitting a lot of balls with a head cover under my trail arm. This really helps get that feeling of connection and reminds me to make a full turn back and through. 

 

As I implemented these feels with my three wood and driver I was getting really good results. My ball was starting and staying on my intended line and going further than it has recently. 

 

I think getting grounded into the setup and continuing to emphasize that feeling of connection will be good for me. 

 

It's not fair of me to say that some of Porzak fundamentals set me back.  I agree with his teaching.  And really it's the way I implemented it and understood it, that threw me off track for a while.  

 

I bring it up, because when I went down for the lesson - he really wanted me to be on the balls of my feet at setup.  I felt like I was falling towards the ball.  However - that's how they teach it, you lean forward, then ground yourself to be balanced.  The issue I had, was I felt like I was always fighting falling forward throughout my swing.  Again, that's not what he's teaching and I do see how it works, I just didn't do a good job maintaining the proper balance throughout - with that feel in setup.  

 

Biggest thing I've understood in the last year - your center of mass and direction of momentum is huge in golf.    

[me05501]

2 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

 

It's not fair of me to say that some of Porzak fundamentals set me back.  I agree with his teaching.  And really it's the way I implemented it and understood it, that threw me off track for a while.  

 

I bring it up, because when I went down for the lesson - he really wanted me to be on the balls of my feet at setup.  I felt like I was falling towards the ball.  However - that's how they teach it, you lean forward, then ground yourself to be balanced.  The issue I had, was I felt like I was always fighting falling forward throughout my swing.  Again, that's not what he's teaching and I do see how it works, I just didn't do a good job maintaining the proper balance throughout - with that feel in setup.  

 

Biggest thing I've understood in the last year - your center of mass and direction of momentum is huge in golf.    

 

 

Right on. Makes sense. 

 

You hint at the main danger of using online instruction without hands-on supervision. I've been trying hard to implement a concept I saw Porzak explain to a student about feeling the weight on the balls of your feet until you break your knees which should settle the weight more evenly. I think my natural/intuitive setup was probably balanced before and trying to implement this idea got me off balance and falling toward the ball a bit. 

 

In a live lesson the pro would surely see this after a swing or two and correct it immediately. It took me longer than that to realize what was happening. 

 

Another reason I like this method is that it aligns perfectly with what my old pro was working on with me before he moved out of town. That's a pretty strong clue that I'm getting what I really need. 

 

 

[wagolfer7]

1 minute ago, me05501 said:

 

 

Right on. Makes sense. 

 

You hint at the main danger of using online instruction without hands-on supervision. I've been trying hard to implement a concept I saw Porzak explain to a student about feeling the weight on the balls of your feet until you break your knees which should settle the weight more evenly. I think my natural/intuitive setup was probably balanced before and trying to implement this idea got me off balance and falling toward the ball a bit. 

 

In a live lesson the pro would surely see this after a swing or two and correct it immediately. It took me longer than that to realize what was happening. 

 

Another reason I like this method is that it aligns perfectly with what my old pro was working on with me before he moved out of town. That's a pretty strong clue that I'm getting what I really need. 

 

 

 

Well that's the thing - I was there for an in person lesson.  I told him I felt like I'm falling towards the ball and he said I look good and just needed to get reps and comfortable.  

 

It's not necessarily a thing you can visually see.  Your center of mass and how it's moving, is something that is better felt - as it's not something a person can see if your center of mass is moving towards it.  Obviously major movements can be seen visually - but a very subtle move towards the ball is hard to see, but can be felt if your paying attention.  

 

I was a train wreck after seeing Porzak.  Again 100% not anything to do with him and his teachings.  It's all on me and how I implemented what I thought he was teaching.  

 

In the end though I'm thankful for it.  It was a long road, but I feel like I'm really getting things to click this year and my ball flight is way better.  

[iacas]

6 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

I bring it up, because when I went down for the lesson - he really wanted me to be on the balls of my feet at setup.  I felt like I was falling towards the ball.  However - that's how they teach it, you lean forward, then ground yourself to be balanced.  The issue I had, was I felt like I was always fighting falling forward throughout my swing.  Again, that's not what he's teaching and I do see how it works, I just didn't do a good job maintaining the proper balance throughout - with that feel in setup.  

 

You probably were… because you previously set up in your heels, and then re-balanced toward the balls of your feet during your swing.

 

So when you set up in the balls of your feet (or the front of your arches), you probably still had that movement pattern to move toward the ball, but now you were already that way a bit, so it pushed you too far.

[gaffs]

I have always struggled to set the club. I would set it super late, like a float load, and lift the club to get there.

 

I could never get the wrist set right and would always be inconsistent when trying to set the wrist. The arms would work away and the club would be flat, as well as lifty.

 

I had seen Porzak videos on youtube, but for whatever reason didnt pay much attention to the content.

 

When looking for wrist set solutions. I had heard people say to push down on the handle to set the club, but the way that Porzac explains it is superb. I tried his method of squeezing the pinky finger, but that wasn't always working for me.

I found one of his Instagram reels where he says the way to do it is to allow the left shoulder to work down, which puts downward pressure on the handle, which inturn sets the club early. This set needs to happen below the below line.

 

Looking at videos of tour pros who get the wrists set early, this must be how they are doing it?

 

Loving Porzak's content. As good as i have ever seen on youtube. 

 

 

[Habitual Flipper]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:26 AM, TourSpoon said:

I have started following him but I only hone in on a few key concepts that he explains well (you mentioned some of these). I don't go too much into his player specific lessons because I just can't go down any rabbit holes that don't apply to me.  

• Setup - a universal starting point that can make or break you before you swing. He really makes this simple to understand. 
• Takeaway - I saved his drill where he breaks it down into 2 pieces with turn and hinge (or vice versa) then blending them together. This really hit home with me and I started using the alignment stick along the foot line to highlight hand path. This one drill has really paid dividends and is my go to. 
• More emphasis on body turn syncing with arms versus arms just winning (this is also part of the same lesson in takeaway). 

He doesn't have much with the driver, but I found that the takeaway drill that I do exclusively with short to mid irons has found its way into all my clubs. I was working with a guy when I moved and he had me exaggerating the opposite of inside takeaway. I did this for 6 weeks to break that inside move and then saw the Porzak drill that really refined it for me. When I finally made it back to my guy, the work had really paid off in all my swings. With driver, if I can get my setup right (my key is feeling more weight on inside right foot than with irons) along with a decent takeaway and tempo, it just happens at impact. The only driver specific thought I may work on in practice is to feel fully extended right at impact which in reality gets me through the ball. On the course, I try to just get the setup correct and feel loose without undue tension and focus on the target. 

 

With all this said, I really come back to one or two drills that apply to me. I work with an instructor (3-4 times a year) and make sure I understand what I need to work on and that is all I work on. 

 

 

Any chance you can link to the setup and takeaway content? 

[TourSpoon]

26 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Any chance you can link to the setup and takeaway content? 

The set-up info is easy to find and he does it quite frequently (and I don't have it bookmarked). Here is the takeaway video that hit home for me. 

 

[me05501]

28 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Any chance you can link to the setup and takeaway content? 

 

There's a ton of it on their channels whether you prefer Instagram or YouTube. 

 

Their marketing strategy is to post mostly edited live lesson videos where a lot of their core concepts are explained to students. They offer a paid tier with videos that are more step-by-step in nature, so if you want that kind of content you'd need to buy it through their site. 

 

Personally I've been able to glean a lot of great information and relevant drills from the free content. 

 

 

[KMeloney]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:50 AM, me05501 said:

• From there it's just a a matter of turning the ribcage to the top and back down through the ball while keeping your hips deep and your upper body connected.

 

This is the part that drives me nuts with Porzak (and plenty of other instructors). To me, there's plenty that needs to happen after that initial 1' move of the hands off the ball to get the club to a good position at the top, but few people discuss it. There's no "from there, you just..." For instance, I HAVE to take that downward-looking face at club-parallel and rotate my forearms and get that face to "open" (I know that word is a matter of debate) by the top. Otherwise, I'll hinge my wrists from there and get the shaft vertical and more closed. Then, it's a matter of undoing what I've done on the way back, resulting in a weak strike (or a hook if I don't undo it).

 

If #1 and #2 get you performing #3 without thinking about it, that's excellent. Not for me, though. I need more direction as part of #3.

[me05501]

1 minute ago, KMeloney said:

 

This is the part that drives me nuts with Porzak (and plenty of other instructors). To me, there's plenty that needs to happen after that initial 1' move of the hands off the ball to get the club to a good position at the top, but few people discuss it. There's no "from there, you just..." For instance, I HAVE to take that downward-looking face at club-parallel and rotate my forearms and get that face to "open" (I know that word is a matter of debate) by the top. Otherwise, I'll hinge my wrists from there and get the shaft vertical and more closed. Then, it's a matter of undoing what I've done on the way back, resulting in a weak strike (or a hook if I don't undo it).

 

If #1 and #2 get you performing #3 without thinking about it, that's excellent. Not for me, though. I need more direction as part of #3.

 

 

I can tell you I've been lost down that very road many times while trying to learn ideas like intentionally closing the club face through transition, thinking about hand position, pronation/supination, forearm and shoulder internal/external rotation, etc ad naseum.

 

For me all of that complex stuff proved to be counter-productive even when I could actually accomplish what was being explained.

 

We're all much better at controlling large muscles than small ones. Our brains are only capable of processing so many thoughts in the small slice of time it takes to make a swing. Trying to take complex small motor skills from the lesson tee to the course is a challenge most of us won't be able to conquer. 

When done correctly the Porzak swing gets your takeaway and downswing on plane without any manipulations. When the club is on plane it's much easier to keep the face square. When your body knows the face is square it frees you up to make a great turn. 

 

 

[gaffs]

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

When done correctly the Porzak swing gets your takeaway and downswing on plane without any manipulations. When the club is on plane it's much easier to keep the face square. When your body knows the face is square it frees you up to make a great turn. 

 

Totally agree. 

 

I feel that if you can get the setup, takeaway and backswing right, then the rest should be easy. That is the idea anyway!