Awful range session... need swing help!

[hacker113]

The last 2 times I hit in the net I was working on a new feel with wedge shots and it was working real well and was hitting nice crisp ball then turf for most of the shots, then took that to a real range and I shanked the first 2 pitch shots, shanked half my partial and three quarter wedge shots, and shanked a several short and mid irons.

 

so I decided to just free wheel my hip turn and feel as if I'm over swinging (I have the opposite problem) and I started actually hitting the ball somewhat solid and no more shanks and to the left, pull draws/hooks still hitting it quiet a bit fat too.

 

here's a couple swings 7 iron dtl & face on one of them is my normal swing and the other is when I'm trying to feel  I'm over swinging on purpose. 

IMG_8304.mov
IMG_8312.mov  IMG_8311.mov  IMG_8307.mov  

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by hacker113

[GoGoErky]

Hips aren’t rotating properly and lots of arm lift and no wrist set

[MPStrat]

 

The two different backswings you make in these vids are fine for a start. I have seen scratch players with worse backswings. I imagine they are different because you are trying a lot of different things. Anyway, in that regard, nothing that needs urgent attention right now.
 

Dynamically, there are things you can do a lot better but first I would strengthen your right hand grip a hair and watch the Pete Cowen and Danny Maude video 10 times. You need to educate your levers on how to square the clubface. Particularly your right forearm and wrist. 

[hacker113]

15 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

The two different backswings you make in these vids are fine for a start. I have seen scratch players with worse backswings. I imagine they are different because you are trying a lot of different things. Anyway, in that regard, nothing that needs urgent attention right now.
 

Dynamically, there are things you can do a lot better but first I would strengthen your right hand grip a hair and watch the Pete Cowen and Danny Maude video 10 times. You need to educate your levers on how to square the clubface. Particularly your right forearm and wrist. 

I've tried the throwing right wrist feel and rolling it over feel but it never pans out on the course 

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, hacker113 said:

I really need help very lost at this point 

 

IMG_8304.mov 2.57 MB · 5 downloads   IMG_8312.mov 3.26 MB · 0 downloads   IMG_8311.mov 2.81 MB · 0 downloads   IMG_8307.mov 4.09 MB · 0 downloads  

 

 

Please have a look at Jack Nicklaus address technique, here are three photos including driver, 5-iron, and wedge. Notice in particular how his left arm and golf club shaft form a straight line. Stand in front of a mirror and try to duplicate this address position.

[MPStrat]

34 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

I've tried the throwing right wrist feel and rolling it over feel but it never pans out on the course  

 

What you are doing and what you think you are doing are always two different things. 
 

I wouldn’t call proper right forerarm snd wrist movement “rolling it over” but I guess there is an element of that. 

 

There isn’t anything in your golf swing that puts you wildly out of position. It’s not really a major positional problem. 

 

More or less you are lacking dynamics which are the glue that holds together a golf swing. It starts in your takeaway as you stand flat footed and take the club away first before you shift. 
 

The answer to your issues is proper dynamics and lever education

 

 

[Fuscinator]

Wow, too young to switch to Pickleball.

 

I don't know...looks too procedural, to me. 

[Curiouser]

The thing that jumps out to me is how your upper body moves down toward the ball in the first DTL vid. You don't do that in any of the other DTL vids. That is going to move the hosel right into the ball and make it hard to control your low point (which admittedly won't be much of a problem on mats).

[jordan2240]

My range sessions have an inverse relationship to how I do on the course, so if I were you, I'd be highly anticipating my next round.

[iacas]

Two things I'd look to fix pretty quickly:

1. Right hand grip is too far on top.
2. Weight at setup is too far on your heels, so you spend the whole backswing and downswing moving toward your toes.

[Valtiel]

On 8/8/2023 at 4:01 PM, Curiouser said:

The thing that jumps out to me is how your upper body moves down toward the ball in the first DTL vid. You don't do that in any of the other DTL vids. That is going to move the hosel right into the ball and make it hard to control your low point (which admittedly won't be much of a problem on mats).

 

On 8/8/2023 at 7:53 PM, iacas said:

Two things I'd look to fix pretty quickly:

1. Right hand grip is too far on top.
2. Weight at setup is too far on your heels, so you spend the whole backswing and downswing moving toward your toes.

I wanted to add to the weight setup/shift toward the toes point because of how consistent this is with both swings:



While there are some minor aesthetic differences (and the frames aren't in exactly the same place), these are functionally the same impact position with two very different swings which serves to highlight how crucial the correct lower body action/pivot is. The lesson here is to understand that while you *did* technically make two very different looking swings, the lack of correct lower body fundamentals caused you to do the exact same thing with your lower half in those two swings. Your right side fires out towards the ball causing a massive handle raise and it's generally getting you swinging out to right field, hence the swooping drop kick draw/hook miss. The AMG Hip Turn video is always a good place to start here especially since you're doing exactly what their "Am" example is doing.

Looking at your face on view there is a lot of weirdness as well:



Focusing on your feet, they are both rolling into each other with your knees almost squeezing together. This is looks like a bad implementation of the "turn your right side behind you" concept that basically has part of your right leg working in the wrong direction. You shouldn't be doing the opposite and rolling on to the outside of that foot, but it definitely should not be rolling inwards like this.



Up to the top we see the lack of wrist set that @GoGoErky mentioned. That combined with the fact you aren't loaded into your right side properly at all sets you up very poorly for any kind of "correct" downswing sequence, hence why in the last frame here your hands are *severely* trailing your lower body. Your left side works aggressively towards the target while you aren't able to generate anywhere near enough hand/arm speed to catch up due to the lack of wrist set, and from here it's all compensations and hope.

If any of this makes sense and fits with any moves you're consciously trying to do (especially the right leg stuff) then i'd highly encourage seeking in person instruction to undo that stuff, because just about every stage of the swing has something funky going on that all adds up to these ugly ball flights you're seeing.

[ferrispgm]

Your hips are far outracing your arms on the down swing and your arms have nowhere to go.  In the frame below, your hips are where they should be at impact or slightly after.  Now you're stuck and can only fire your arms out to the right, hence the shanks.  You need to work on delaying the hips and/or getting the arms starting sooner with the right shoulder moving out a little more IMO

 

 

 

[hacker113]

34 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

Your hips are far outracing your arms on the down swing and your arms have nowhere to go.  In the frame below, your hips are where they should be at impact or slightly after.  Now you're stuck and can only fire your arms out to the right, hence the shanks.  You need to work on delaying the hips and/or getting the arms starting sooner with the right shoulder moving out a little more IMO

 

 

 

now i know i have fast hips, ive always thought my lower body was like bricks on other face ons of me ive seen

[hacker113]

1 minute ago, hacker113 said:

now i know i have fast hips, ive always thought my lower body was like bricks on other face ons of me ive seen

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by hacker113

[hacker113]

6 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

I wanted to add to the weight setup/shift toward the toes point because of how consistent this is with both swings:



While there are some minor aesthetic differences (and the frames aren't in exactly the same place), these are functionally the same impact position with two very different swings which serves to highlight how crucial the correct lower body action/pivot is. The lesson here is to understand that while you *did* technically make two very different looking swings, the lack of correct lower body fundamentals caused you to do the exact same thing with your lower half in those two swings. Your right side fires out towards the ball causing a massive handle raise and it's generally getting you swinging out to right field, hence the swooping drop kick draw/hook miss. The AMG Hip Turn video is always a good place to start here especially since you're doing exactly what their "Am" example is doing.

Looking at your face on view there is a lot of weirdness as well:



Focusing on your feet, they are both rolling into each other with your knees almost squeezing together. This is looks like a bad implementation of the "turn your right side behind you" concept that basically has part of your right leg working in the wrong direction. You shouldn't be doing the opposite and rolling on to the outside of that foot, but it definitely should not be rolling inwards like this.



Up to the top we see the lack of wrist set that @GoGoErky mentioned. That combined with the fact you aren't loaded into your right side properly at all sets you up very poorly for any kind of "correct" downswing sequence, hence why in the last frame here your hands are *severely* trailing your lower body. Your left side works aggressively towards the target while you aren't able to generate anywhere near enough hand/arm speed to catch up due to the lack of wrist set, and from here it's all compensations and hope.

If any of this makes sense and fits with any moves you're consciously trying to do (especially the right leg stuff) then i'd highly encourage seeking in person instruction to undo that stuff, because just about every stage of the swing has something funky going on that all adds up to these ugly ball flights you're seeing.

 

I used to have a really bad sway off the ball, i didnt think it was possible to overdo it the other way

[MPStrat]

40 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

Your hips are far outracing your arms on the down swing and your arms have nowhere to go.  In the frame below, your hips are where they should be at impact or slightly after.  Now you're stuck and can only fire your arms out to the right, hence the shanks.  You need to work on delaying the hips and/or getting the arms starting sooner with the right shoulder moving out a little more IMO

 

 

 

 

The issue here isn’t the amount his hips are open, but that the swing is backswing-downswing. If he were to “fire his arms” earlier he would stand up more and be more stuck. 
 

His right hand grip is too weak and he is missing the dynamics needed to maintain some kind of inclination. 
 

[MPStrat]

4 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

 

I used to have a really bad sway off the ball, i didnt think it was possible to overdo it the other way

A sway off the ball only happens if your shift to start the swing happens after the clubhead moves (too late) and or happens for too long.

 

Lately I’ve seen people saying not to shift and that the clubhead creates the shift. This is horrible. You don’t fix a sway by not shifting and standing flat footed. That’s worse than a big sway. 

 

 

[hacker113]

2 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

The issue here isn’t the amount his hips are open, but that the swing is backswing-downswing. If he were to “fire his arms” earlier he would stand up more and be more stuck. 
 

His right hand grip is too weak and he is missing the dynamics needed to maintain some kind of inclination. 
 

ive been working on the right hand grip. when i gripped the club, the right hand FELT neutral but i never realized how weak it was until someone here pointed it out. now when i grip a club correctly if looks super strong but looks textbook in front of a mirror

[hacker113]

2 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

A sway off the ball only happens if your shift to start the swing happens after the clubhead moves (too late) and or happens for too long.

 

Lately I’ve seen people saying not to shift and that the clubhead creates the shift. This is horrible. You don’t fix a sway by not shifting and standing flat footed. That’s worse than a big sway. 

 

 

what do you mean by flat footed?

[hacker113]

54 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

Your hips are far outracing your arms on the down swing and your arms have nowhere to go.  In the frame below, your hips are where they should be at impact or slightly after.  Now you're stuck and can only fire your arms out to the right, hence the shanks.  You need to work on delaying the hips and/or getting the arms starting sooner with the right shoulder moving out a little more IMO

 

 

 

so will feel like im swinging left be a good feel or will that cause problems down the road?

[MPStrat]

7 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

what do you mean by flat footed?

you let the clubhead pull your pressure to the trail side instead of initiating the swing by pressuring your right foot 

[hacker113]

9 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

you let the clubhead pull your pressure to the trail side instead of initiating the swing by pressuring your right foot 

 

Is this backswing better?

[MPStrat]

46 minutes ago, hacker113 said:

 

Is this backswing better?

I’m glad you posted this. It is helpful because it tells a lot in how you’re thinking. You make a full backswing without really any initial shift to the right and instead load the right side all the way to the top of the swing. This is similar to what you do already. No shift to start the swing and you take it all the way to the top without a transition back to the lead side.

 

Watch how Tiger does a small bump into his trail side before the hands start taking the club back :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[glk]

Fix your posture

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/?hl=en

 

then wake up your legs - lower body is inert.

 

 

 

 

[hacker113]

11 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

I’m glad you posted this. It is helpful because it tells a lot in how you’re thinking. You make a full backswing without really any initial shift to the right and instead load the right side all the way to the top of the swing. This is similar to what you do already. No shift to start the swing and you take it all the way to the top without a transition back to the lead side.

 

Watch how Tiger does a small bump into his trail side before the hands start taking the club back :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think I got it, how's this?

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, hacker113 said:

 

Think I got it, how's this?

Better, but you can’t just camp out on the right side all the way to the top. Watch the videos @glk linked for the early shift back to the left. The shift back to the left side should start happening as your upper body is still winding up in the backswing. 

[hacker113]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

Better, but you can’t just camp out on the right side all the way to the top. Watch the videos @glk linked for the early shift back to the left. The shift back to the left side should start happening as your upper body is still winding up in the backswing. 

By camp out on the right side you mean I'm over doing the maintaining of secondary tilt in the backswing?

[MPStrat]

Just now, hacker113 said:

By camp out on the right side you mean I'm over doing the maintaining of secondary tilt in the backswing?

No I mean that you’re not getting back into the left side soon enough after your shift into the trail side 

[Chunkitgood]

You might consider allowing your right arm to break earlier and down instead of behind you and letting the face up open up a bit in the backswing.

[iacas]

11 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

You need to work on delaying the hips and/or getting the arms starting sooner with the right shoulder moving out a little more IMO

 

Before he does that…

 

On 8/8/2023 at 10:53 PM, iacas said:

Two things I'd look to fix pretty quickly:

1. Right hand grip is too far on top.
2. Weight at setup is too far on your heels, so you spend the whole backswing and downswing moving toward your toes.

 

Fix the setup and grip first, man.