Trouble with impact position

[taylorhat]

Hey all, been working with an instructor but feel like I need this concept explained differently as we have been working on impact position and release for like 6 months now without the progress we both expected. I’ve done the stick in the butt end of the club and have also worked with the golf forever system. Rotating down to impact. 7 iron.

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Ball too far back leads to closed shoulders which leads to inside out path. The reason you can't get a good impact position is because you have no choice but to release early because of the ball position. Simple stuff really. Move it close to left heel and you will learn a good weight shift and getting the hands farther forward. 

[taylorhat]

Thank you.  I am unsure this is it though.  All the numbers are what my instructor and I have been working on, path 2-4 to right playing a draw.  Attached stills is what you hypothesized but I feel like the release is still early.  Unless the shaft lean is not as dramatic? Perhaps I just have a poor understanding as to what I am trying to accomplish?

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, taylorhat said:

Thank you.  I am unsure this is it though.  All the numbers are what my instructor and I have been working on, path 2-4 to right playing a draw.  Attached stills is what you hypothesized but I feel like the release is still early.  Unless the shaft lean is not as dramatic? Perhaps I just have a poor understanding as to what I am trying to accomplish?

Interesting. Check out all those zeroes. Flare your left foot out now.

[Righty to Lefty]

But you haven't released the club early and I can tell that because your trail is still bent at impact.  You are also hitting a 7 iron 182 yards carry and with a very efficient delivery numbers and ball speed.  I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish as you have a very good swing motion and are in a very good position at impact.  

 

If you are trying to get a pretty golf swing, then you have one and you shouldn't be comparing your swing motion to anyone else's as we are all different athletes with different physical attributes.  If you move the ball forward in your stance your trail arm will straighten prior to hitting the ball and this is death as you will lose control of the club face. Let your quality of strike be your guide and as long as your swing motion is producing a levered impact then you are good and should be on the course focusing scoring low.  I can go much deeper into these subjects if you want that information but after a quick look at things your swing motion is perfectly fine and and plenty powerful.  I know this isn't what you want to hear and you want to believe that there is something wrong but there simply isn't . 

 

Lag tension video explaining why the only deal breaker is the trail arm straightening prior to impact: 

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

2 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

But you haven't released the club early and I can tell that because your trail is still bent at impact.  You are also hitting a 7 iron 182 yards carry and with a very efficient delivery numbers and ball speed.  I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish as you have a very good swing motion and are in a very good position at impact.  

 

If you are trying to get a pretty golf swing, then you have one and you shouldn't be comparing your swing motion to anyone else's as we are all different athletes with different physical attributes.  If you move the ball forward in your stance your trail arm will straighten prior to hitting the ball and this is death as you will lose control of the club face. Let your quality of strike be your guide and as long as your swing motion is producing a levered impact then you are good and should be on the course focusing scoring low.  I can go much deeper into these subjects if you want that information but after a quick look at things your swing motion is perfectly fine and and plenty powerful.  I know this isn't what you want to hear and you want to believe that there is something wrong but there simply isn't . 

 

Lag tension video explaining why the only deal breaker is the trail arm straightening prior to impact: 

 

 

Did you even watch his video? Ball too far back=bad shoulder alignment. He moved it forward and he's zeroed out at impact. 

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Did you even watch his video? Ball too far back=bad shoulder alignment. He moved it forward and he's zeroed out at impact. 

Great...he now has aligned himself to the target line that the TrackMan sees... could have done that by rotating his swing as a unit  in a semicircle left or right and it actually would have been pleasing to your eye because the video is in 2D so the ball would have looked more forward in his stance. Also the first shot is a draw and the second one is a straight shot so the ball position will look very different for those two shots any way. 

 

What your advise has done has made his AoA too shallow.  If his AoA is negative 2 something, what will it be by the time he is hitting a fairway wood off the ground...I assure you it will be approaching zero or even go positive which is not good? Your advice that you gave actually compromised his strike and your advice upon seeing those numbers should be that you have talked him into an over correction and that he should actually be moving the ball back in his stance again because a -2 AoA with a 7 iron hinges on disaster and he will be hitting thins and tops in no time I assure you.    

 

But don't take my word for it.  Take a look at what happens to the trail arm if you get the ball too far forward...the result is that you will lose lag tension. Sure if you get it perfect like he did on that particular shot you can hit some good shots, but it will not be reliable from day to day because the more the trail arm happens to be bent at impact, the more room for error the golfer has.  

 

https://bridgegolffoundation.org/attack-angle-more-distance-trackman/ 

[tthomasgolfer605]

4 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Great...he now has aligned himself to the target line that the TrackMan sees... could have done that by rotating his swing as a unit  in a semicircle left or right and it actually would have been pleasing to your eye because the video is in 2D so the ball would have looked more forward in his stance. Also the first shot is a draw and the second one is a straight shot so the ball position will look very different for those two shots any way. 

 

What your advise has done has made his AoA too shallow.  If his AoA is negative 2 something, what will it be by the time he is hitting a fairway wood off the ground...I assure you it will be approaching zero or even go positive which is not good? Your advice that you gave actually compromised his strike and your advice upon seeing those numbers should be that you have talked him into an over correction and that he should actually be moving the ball back in his stance again because a -2 AoA with a 7 iron hinges on disaster and he will be hitting thins and tops in no time I assure you.    

 

But don't take my word for it.  Take a look at what happens to the trail arm if you get the ball too far forward...the result is that you will lose lag tension. Sure if you get it perfect like he did on that particular shot you can hit some good shots, but it will not be reliable from day to day because the more the trail arm happens to be bent at impact, the more room for error the golfer has.  

 

https://bridgegolffoundation.org/attack-angle-more-distance-trackman/ 

I learned not to take your word for it years ago. 

[Righty to Lefty]

11 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I learned not to take your word for it years ago. 

Interesting how you went to a personal attack instead of analyzing and responding to what I posted.  I never said your advice was wrong...I stated that you didn't even notice that you talked the athlete into an over correction.  You can zero out your face to path at any point along your swing arc by making plane / shoulder line adjustments. @taylorhat that last statement is actually the answer to your statement where you asked if you were not understanding things properly.  You can see from the model representations of the golf swing that I put up that you can strike the ball at many different points along your swing arc, but there is only one point that will allow it to travel down a given target line and you have to be aware of that and this is the "understanding you are seeking."    

 

@tthomasgolfer605 this is a zero face to path at low point of the swing arc (not good) and this is essentially what you did by telling taylorhat to move the ball forward and claimed that you did the athlete a service, when you now have him striking his 7 iron much to close to the low point of the swing arc which is not good. Taylorhat the pencil represents the club face at impact by the way and the pencil mark on the trashcan represents the low point of the swing arc which can't be seen on this particular shot but will show in the other models. No shot should be struck at low point of the swing arc by the way.  

 

Below is a zero face to path with an iron. Notice the circle / swing plane/ shoulder line is oriented to the left denoting an negative angle of attack. The pencil in your second set of numbers you posted is much to close to the low point of the swing arc denoted by the pencil mark on the trashcan and I can tell that because your shoulder line is parallel to the line of travel of the ball. 

 

From your down the line shoulder line in your second shot, a well struck ball being hit off the ground should be shooting out to the right like the model below but you didn't realize that the shot you hit was just fine, you just didn't aim it at the straight line that the TrackMan is seeing which is the straight line in between the two hitting mats in this model. All you needed to do is rotate everything to the left in a semicircle to bring your well struck shot on to the target line that the Trackman is seeing: 

 

This is a zero face to path with a driver for reference and notice the circle / swing plane/ shoulder line is oriented to the right and the pencil is positioned after the low point of the swing arc denoting an positive angle of attack : 

 

TrackMan states that a good attack angle with a 7 iron is 4 degrees but you are much safer hitting down on a 7 iron 6 degrees than you are hitting down 2. Thus you should bump the ball back in your stance a ball width or so and see where you regain a proper AoA while understanding that these shots should be flying to the right of the target line.  Then once you find the proper AoA and strike you can rotate your base of your plane in semicircle to bring it onto the target line that TrackMan sees and zero it out. I know this is quite a bit of info a first but you asked for understanding and this is the math of your question and it benefits you to understand it because you will then never ask why a shot flew the way it did and you will then be able to self correct your own shots on the fly. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask and I will gladly clarify further. 

 

This is the technical explanation that will benefit you greatly by taking the time to fully understand it: 

 

[slytown]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:28 PM, taylorhat said:

Thank you.  I am unsure this is it though.  All the numbers are what my instructor and I have been working on, path 2-4 to right playing a draw.  Attached stills is what you hypothesized but I feel like the release is still early.  Unless the shaft lean is not as dramatic? Perhaps I just have a poor understanding as to what I am trying to accomplish?

 

It doesn't look terrible to me, but I would have to see full, slo mo video of down the line and face on to make any conclusions. 

 

What are you trying to work on specifically?