Help me understand AJGA Previews

[Golfquant]

I always thought of AJGA Previews as a bridge for new players to be able to get enough stars to compete in AJGA Junior All-Stars and Opens.

 

Yet what I notice is that many competitors (with plenty of stars) are older, have lots of AJGA experience and use it to get AJGA "top finishes".

 

From AJGA website:

 

"The AJGA Preview Series is designed specifically for AJGA members who have not yet played/been accepted to an AJGA tournament. This series, conducted primarily during the spring, offers these new and returning members the opportunity to start building Performance Based Entry status before application deadlines arrive for summer's Open Series and Ninja® Junior All-Star Series events.

 

Entry Criteria

 

Members who have no prior acceptances into AJGA tournaments during the current or previous AJGA season are encouraged to apply to Preview Series tournaments. Preference will be given based on high school graduation year (Senior, Junior, Sophomore, Freshman, etc.)."

 

What is the consensus on this?

[golferdad8]

You are correct in what the AJGA Previews are supposed to be for, and it's meant to older kids without AJGA experience to catch up a bit. 
Not sure which tournaments or which players were previously in "open" tournaments, but I do know many players who have many stars but still without AJGA Open Experience. 

 

The one scenario I can think of where a players gets into a Preview this spring - then subsequently get into an OPEN in the past few weeks via a Qualifier? 

 

[machine_cat]

If you have played multiple ajga events in the previous and this year, you can still play the preview series, but you must gain entry through the corresponding qualifier.  Be in the field of preview series has nothing to do with how many stars you have. 

 

[golfdad1]

Kids cheat the system and enter the qualifier. No clue why AJGA allows it, as it defeats the purpose of the preview. Look at the NY one from this weekend. The winner has played many Open AJGAs but snuck in through the qualifier.  Other than building stars, what's the benefit of saying you won a preview against a very weak field? 

[machine_cat]

23 minutes ago, golfdad1 said:

Kids cheat the system and enter the qualifier. No clue why AJGA allows it, as it defeats the purpose of the preview. Look at the NY one from this weekend. The winner has played many Open AJGAs but snuck in through the qualifier.  Other than building stars, what's the benefit of saying you won a preview against a very weak field? 

1. It is ajga policy, not cheating.

2. sometimes preview qualifier's field is hard to fill.

3. Besides earning more stars, it can help your ranking (if you win one) when your ranking is not very high. 

4. Sometimes, it is just an extra AJGA tournament close to you during the spring. Why not?

[jayslaysongolf]

If you played any AJGA events and had any success there is no reason to play previews.

 

You get less points then any other tournament for the AJGA rankings. Also there is not many stars available even if you win. 

 

My advice is leave it to the new kids who can not get into a real event.

 

If you want to play AJGA go out and qualify for a event. You do not need stars and it works. 
 

The bigger issue is kids who get sponsorship into AJGA invitationals that have no business being in the tournament. AJGA needs to have qualifiers for these events as well. Invitationals are a joke and rewards kids who game the system.

Edited May 6 by jayslaysongolf

[Tugu]

8 hours ago, golfdad1 said:

Kids cheat the system and enter the qualifier. No clue why AJGA allows it, as it defeats the purpose of the preview. Look at the NY one from this weekend. The winner has played many Open AJGAs but snuck in through the qualifier.  Other than building stars, what's the benefit of saying you won a preview against a very weak field? 

Do you think said kid will be highlighting the PREVIEW status of the AJGA he won?🤔

[golfdad1]

26 minutes ago, Tugu said:

Do you think said kid will be highlighting the PREVIEW status of the AJGA he won?🤔

Haha likely not.

[golfdad1]

1 hour ago, jayslaysongolf said:

If you played any AJGA events and had any success there is no reason to play previews.

 

You get less points then any other tournament for the AJGA rankings. Also there is not many stars available even if you win. 

 

My advice is leave it to the new kids who can not get into a real event.

 

If you want to play AJGA go out and qualify for a event. You do not need stars and it works. 
 

The bigger issue is kids who get sponsorship into AJGA invitationals that have no business being in the tournament. AJGA needs to have qualifiers for these events as well. Invitationals are a joke and rewards kids who game the system.

My point exactly.

[jigsaw1011]

What if it the preview was a local event and it was better then playing another local event?  Would it make sense for a player to play in it? The winner gets 12 stars which is not insignificant.

Edited May 6 by jigsaw1011

[Golfquant]

8 hours ago, machine_cat said:

1. It is ajga policy, not cheating.

2. sometimes preview qualifier's field is hard to fill.

3. Besides earning more stars, it can help your ranking (if you win one) when your ranking is not very high. 

4. Sometimes, it is just an extra AJGA tournament close to you during the spring. Why not?

I notice some of the Previews are restricted to 12-15yo while others are open to any age (and any AJGA experience level, number of stars, ranking).  Surely there could be a better way to allow access to AJGA events via Preview Tournaments for those for whom the Preview Series were actually intended?

 

Indeed a strong finish (not even winning) definitely seems to buttress these junior golfers' Rolex AJGA Rankings Point Avg.  Finishing 3rd in a Preview (15 AJGA ranking points for 1st) event is equivalent to finishing 8th in a AJGA Open (40 for 1st) - both earn 7 AJGA ranking points.  It seems like AJGA should recalibrate these point awards?

 

Perhaps there is overlap with players who do this and would also consider playing in a HJGT event this Memorial Day!

[jigsaw1011]

Regular Preview fields are filled by Grad Year being the only criteria and having no playing opportunities in this season and previous season.  For example 2024 first then 2025 etc.would have priority in gaining entrance. No stars are involved.

 

The loophole is the qualifier.  In a qualifier you can not have played an AJGA in this season so in the Spring it is easier to meet the criteria. Also the other criteria to fill the field is the state you live in with preference given to the state the tournament where the event is held. 

 

It seems the spirit of the Preview is to give players without experience in an AJGA priority but not necessarily to exclude others with the option of playing in through the qualifier.
 

Not sure if it is the fairest with the qualifier option since potentially kids who are more skilled and have more experience can gain access.

 

Edited May 6 by jigsaw1011
Corrected info about grad year

[jayslaysongolf]

1 hour ago, jigsaw1011 said:

What if it the preview was a local event and it was better then playing another local event?  Would it make sense for a player to play in it? The winner gets 12 stars which is not insignificant.

Not really you can get 8 stars at a regular local tournament if you win.

 

The only people who should play preview events are ones who have no chance of getting into a All star or open event.

Edited May 6 by jayslaysongolf

[jigsaw1011]

4 minutes ago, jayslaysongolf said:

Not really you can get 8 stars at a regular local tournament if you win.

 

The only people who should play preview events are ones who have no chance of getting into an All star or open event.

Wow 8 stars for a local event! Around here it is max 4 stars.

[machine_cat]

6 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

Wow 8 stars for a local event! Around here it is max 4 stars.

Agree. I have never seen local event with 8 stars( the closest one needs drive 5 hours). Even 4-star local events  are rare. 

[jayslaysongolf]

21 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

Wow 8 stars for a local event! Around here it is max 4 stars.

 

Lot of tournaments have 8 stars because they have great fields.  If your playing 4 star events and want to play AJGA your not playing the correct events.

Trying to collect stars is a waste of time. You can qualify and play to get into AJGA events. It not that hard to do. Chances are the qualifier is much like a local event your already playing and since people chase stars you don’t have to win it either.

 

[jigsaw1011]

12 minutes ago, jayslaysongolf said:

 

Lot of tournaments have 8 stars because they have great fields.  If your playing 4 star events and want to play AJGA your not playing the correct events.

Trying to collect stars is a waste of time. You can qualify and play to get into AJGA events. It not that hard to do. Chances are the qualifier is much like a local event your already playing and since people chase stars you don’t have to win it either.

 

I find the way AJGA awards stars to be somewhat inconsistent. There is one event up North ( where we are located) that has been gaining traction nationally.  The field has exemption criteria and if you don’t meet it you have to play a qualifier.  The field is strong but you only receive 8 stars if you win and only 1 star for a top ten finish.  You can play a local event with no exemption criteria or qualifier and finish top 5 and gain 1 star. 
 

 

 

[Tugu]

I do wonder what a college coach would think if they took a peek under the hood of kids/aspiring college golfers and their support teams choosing events based on stars/points. 

 

Guessing most candidates will present themselves as golfers who value meritocracy and care about little else beyond the purity of competition.

 

So far I've only read one parent who openly said using sport to gain entry into a school is a job. If the kid who won the preview came out and said I exploited a loophole that's technically within the rules and maybe borderline against the spirit of the AJGA regulations, then so be it.

 

I'm guessing there'll be alot of explanations that justifies the act. But its obvious it wasnt for skills acquisition or the purity of competition. Why not just own the act by saying I saw a way to gain points/stars against limited competition and took it.

 

No crime was committed. But everyone knows college coaches would not look on the cadidate fondly if their true self was revealed. Hence roll forth with the justifications...

Edited May 6 by Tugu

[TroyB123]

29 minutes ago, Tugu said:

I do wonder what a college coach would think if they took a peek under the hood of kids/aspiring college golfers and their support teams choosing events based on stars/points. 

 

Guessing most candidates will present themselves as golfers who value meritocracy and care about little else beyond the purity of competition.

 

So far I've only read one parent who openly said using sport to gain entry into a school is a job. If the kid who won the preview came out and said I exploited a loophole that's technically within the rules and maybe borderline against the spirit of the AJGA regulations, then so be it.

 

I'm guessing there'll be alot of explanations that justifies the act. But its obvious it wasnt for skills acquisition or the purity of competition. Why not just own the act by saying I saw a way to gain points/stars against limited competition and took it.

 

No crime was committed. But everyone knows college coaches would not look on the cadidate fondly if their true self was revealed. Hence roll forth with the justifications...

Isn't playing in events that can lead to entry into bigger events all part of the junior golfing journey?   Getting into more than one AJGA open qualifier isn't even very easy in our region.

 

AJGA obviously gives out far more stars to their own events than they do outside events, so it's basically a matter of finding the tournaments or qualifiers you can get into to try to break into the AJGA.   The tour my son plays most regularly gives out 4 stars to winners for their regular events, but he's going to have to have a pretty great week to beat out 90-110 person field that always includes at least 4-5 D1 commits.

 

I have a hard time believing a college coach is going to look down on a kid who parlays an AJGA preview into playing some AJGA opens the next year.

 

I guess if a kid is running around the country finding previews with unfilled qualifiers and dominating them, then sure that's going to look a little suspect.  I can't imagine that is something that has actually happened though!

[Tugu]

31 minutes ago, TroyB123 said:

Isn't playing in events that can lead to entry into bigger events all part of the junior golfing journey?   Getting into more than one AJGA open qualifier isn't even very easy in our region.

 

AJGA obviously gives out far more stars to their own events than they do outside events, so it's basically a matter of finding the tournaments or qualifiers you can get into to try to break into the AJGA.   The tour my son plays most regularly gives out 4 stars to winners for their regular events, but he's going to have to have a pretty great week to beat out 90-110 person field that always includes at least 4-5 D1 commits.

 

I have a hard time believing a college coach is going to look down on a kid who parlays an AJGA preview into playing some AJGA opens the next year.

 

I guess if a kid is running around the country finding previews with unfilled qualifiers and dominating them, then sure that's going to look a little suspect.  I can't imagine that is something that has actually happened though!

Well declare openly (as in the case of the winner in Ny) that a child who has experience playing in AJGA events, but chose to go play a preview against supposed newbies to gain points and see what happens. 

 

 

Edited May 6 by Tugu

[jayslaysongolf]

18 minutes ago, Tugu said:

Well declare openly (as in the case of the winner in Ny) that a child who has experience playing in AJGA events, but chose to go play a preview against supposed newbies to gain points and see what happens. 

 

 

College coaches don’t care. if anything skirting the rules is a positive and looked highly at.

 

I seen some pretty unethical kids get recruited over the years to top program.  You would think they would learn.  those kids almost always flame out but it doesn’t seem to matter to anyone.

[machine_cat]

24 minutes ago, Tugu said:

Well declare openly (as in the case of the winner in Ny) that a child who has experience playing in AJGA events, but chose to go play a preview against supposed newbies to gain points and see what happens. 

 

 

That boy ranks 500+ in ajga and play in a local preview. I do not think coachs recruiting at this level will care about that. It is not like you won several open series and came back to play a preview. That definitely doest make sense.

[TroyB123]

Looking at the kid's schedule and it looks like he plays as many NY/NJ events he can get into from spring to fall and doesn't travel much.  He doesn't look like a kid trying to manipulate the system.

[machine_cat]

2 hours ago, jayslaysongolf said:

 

Lot of tournaments have 8 stars because they have great fields.  If your playing 4 star events and want to play AJGA your not playing the correct events.

Trying to collect stars is a waste of time. You can qualify and play to get into AJGA events. It not that hard to do. Chances are the qualifier is much like a local event your already playing and since people chase stars you don’t have to win it either.

 

 

If you can play in a qualifier into ajga open and make top 5 for boys or top 3 for girls, it is a waste of time. Collecting stars is not a waste of time for most people.

 

1.Qualifier is not easy to get in after the first one or two.

2.Qualifiers for open and all stars during the spring are always on Thursday since they are 54-hole events. It is hard for parent and high school kids to make schedule. Qualifier for preview is always on Friday. It is more attractive based on the invested time. 

3. Collecting stars and getting in tournament directly give you a confirmed schedule.

[Golfquant]

I guess if enough families merely use it as a tool for convenience and/or aspirational players and parents try to take advantage of this "loophole" then AJGA will be motivated to fix the problem by changing the rules eventually.

 

It's too bad it will have to come at the expense of players who are just trying to get a chance to play getting locked out to those who don't need it.

[jayslaysongolf]

8 minutes ago, machine_cat said:

 

If you can play in a qualifier into ajga open and make top 5 for boys or top 3 for girls, it is a waste of time. Collecting stars is not a waste of time for most people.

 

1.Qualifier is not easy to get in after the first one or two.

2.Qualifiers for open and all stars during the spring are always on Thursday since they are 54-hole events. It is hard for parent and high school kids to make schedule. Qualifier for preview is always on Friday. It is more attractive based on the invested time. 

3. Collecting stars and getting in tournament directly give you a confirmed schedule.

If you can not show up and qualify for a AJGA qualifier and expect to play you are wasting your time and money playing AJGA. 

 

Summer time qualifiers also are easy to get into half the time they full of tournament participants .

 

The other thing is if you qualify and play in AJGA tournaments and get in all 5 you end up with more stars than  you need and not have to do qualifiers again.

 

So much money and time is wasted in junior golf trying to collect stats because they don’t understand their kid isn’t ready for AJGA tournaments.

[Tugu]

35 minutes ago, machine_cat said:

That boy ranks 500+ in ajga and play in a local preview. I do not think coachs recruiting at this level will care about that. It is not like you won several open series and came back to play a preview. That definitely doest make sense.

Well if one bases decisions on whether anyone cares, then have at it.

[machine_cat]

14 minutes ago, jayslaysongolf said:

If you can not show up and qualify for a AJGA qualifier and expect to play you are wasting your time and money playing AJGA. 

 

Summer time qualifiers also are easy to get into half the time they full of tournament participants .

 

The other thing is if you qualify and play in AJGA tournaments and get in all 5 you end up with more stars than  you need and not have to do qualifiers again.

 

So much money and time is wasted in junior golf trying to collect stats because they don’t understand their  kid isn’t ready for AJGA tournaments.

 

Only 10% of an ajga qualifier field can get into the tournament. 90% of people are wasting time and money.

If you look at US open qualifier, 99% of people are wasting time and money if qualified is your only goal.

Edited May 6 by machine_cat

[jayslaysongolf]

18 minutes ago, machine_cat said:

 

Only 10% of an ajga qualifier field can get into the tournament. 90% of people are wasting time and money.

If you look at US open qualifier, 99% of people are wasting time and money if qualified is your only goal.

 

The vast majority of kids who qualify score about the same as the top 50% of the field.  This is a tournament done in many cases on the same course.  Basically an average AJGA player will qualify if they play a qualifier  the majority of the time.

 

Because of tournament participants and you kids who turn down a spot you could easily still qualify with a 10th place spot in a qualifier.  

 

Too many parents want to play AJGA before their kid is ready and that is the issue.  if you kid isn’t breaking 75 don’t waste your time with AJGA.

Edited May 6 by jayslaysongolf

[jhsph07]

16 hours ago, golfdad1 said:

Kids cheat the system and enter the qualifier. No clue why AJGA allows it, as it defeats the purpose of the preview. Look at the NY one from this weekend. The winner has played many Open AJGAs but snuck in through the qualifier.  Other than building stars, what's the benefit of saying you won a preview against a very weak field? 

There are almost 300 boys signed up the qualifier but only the local (NY) kids were accepted, regardless of the graduation year. AJGA is out of control. 

 

AJGA is all about money, that's why players' stars aren't deducted anymore, it encourages kids to play more in order to accumulate the stupid stars. That's why you see other tournaments start working with the AJGA to dispense starts, even through USKG local tournaments, where many organizers intentionally reduce the distance to get their kids qualified to the World. Hell, golf parents' money is the easiest to earn, isn't it?