The Big Picture of Biokinetics in a golf swing motion

[Dariusz J.]

Gary, I must tell you that you have already gathered a great material to share with and to digest your findings further. It surely exceeds the material that is presented in this thread, yet it may be an excellent addition to the topic How to Automate the Golf Swing. I would sugest you to create your own thread, perhaps your own site - I'd be the first to join it and discuss if I find something important to say. If you decide to stay here for the moment - feel free to enrich this thread with your posts.

Could you inform us if you have already found some medical sources that can serve you to confront your findings with or to verify some points ? Not that it matters very much but the bigger is the representation sample the better for universality of your findings.

 

Cheers

[Garyhard]

Hi

At work, so i'll be brief.

 

Yes i did take to a Neurologist. It was a caussual conversation durring a health fair show in a shopping mall. But, before this, the people i was using to help teach me to swing a golf club brought up my previous training people. I didn't know of any before then, due to my age. After having several automatic routine experiences: i then recognized my play time (as a child) was actually training. (Lots of info i do not want to get into know)

 

Anyway, the Neurologist said that automatic reflex is more/less subconsious routeens based on touch,feel,hearing,etc...

 

There fore, it would be easy to conclude that a childs brain stores info. The thought process would may redirect to stored routines, which may become reflexs-yet not sure on this. But, some times i don't practic something yet go through the process. At least several times.

 

What makes me interested in your study, would be my interest in how much a train (prodagee) is from someone elses hard work. Consequently, i should not take my own credit for his training lessons. Just my own credit for being a good student.

 

If i start breaking 70's i'll write a book. Other wise-i'll focus on how to train somone else to do it. Probably, the latter.

 

Thanks!

Garyhard-give as a child...

[Dariusz J.]

Anyway, the Neurologist said that automatic reflex is more/less subconsious routeens based on touch,feel,hearing,etc...

There fore, it would be easy to conclude that a childs brain stores info. The thought process would may redirect to stored routines, which may become reflexs-yet not sure on this. But, some times i don't practic something yet go through the process. At least several times.

 

Extremely interesting subject, mate ! Everyone knows that a baseball, cricket or hockey player usually learns to play golf quicker and become a decent golfer much faster. I'd add to this a discus thrower, too. I always thought that there is a common denominator for all rotary sports.

Maybe it is a future of golf to teach to hit balls (no matter if it is a golf or a cricket ball) both left and right sided. Both brain halves will be taught to send infos to the body adequately and learn from each other. You know, it is like one physicist claims that the light is a stream of photons while the other says it is a wave ;)

 

Cheers

[JackieTreehorn]

Dariusz, I have just read all of your SPC (Sagittal Plane Compression) information but I am not sure I understand the details. For the upper body, I see you suggest the rear shoulder hitting a limitation and this naturally will cause the lead shoulder to essentially bounce off it.

 

I am unclear what this limitation is, and since you seem to know some anatomy, I would like to know what position you believe the rear scapula gets in at this limit (Retraction or protraction or other?). When I think of the term "sagittal plane compression" I think of muscles contracting bones towards the sagittal plane, like the back muscles in military posture.

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz, I have just read all of your SPC (Sagittal Plane Compression) information but I am not sure I understand the details. For the upper body, I see you suggest the rear shoulder hitting a limitation and this naturally will cause the lead shoulder to essentially bounce off it.

 

I am unclear what this limitation is, and since you seem to know some anatomy, I would like to know what position you believe the rear scapula gets in at this limit (Retraction or protraction or other?). When I think of the term "sagittal plane compression" I think of muscles contracting bones towards the sagittal plane, like the back muscles in military posture.

 

Jackie, forget every connotations of the very name of the concept. It's a theoretical construct, since the sagittal plane is nothing real. The essence of it was to present the correlations and interactions between left and right (lead and rear) sides of the body.

The limitation of the rear shoulder is being found because of the spine limitation for torquing. A big part of the spine (lumbar) is enframed with the pelvis, therefore, it may turn as far as hips let it. Next big part of the spine (thoracic) is surrounded by rib cage that does not limit the spine turn radically, but gradually. Lastly - clavicle bones and scapulas - they transfer all torques between main body and limbs, but to the certain limit as well.

But the crucial thing is that the rear hip joint stops the backswing (and starts the downswing) much earlier than the rear shoulder joint. The lead hips starts to be catapulted when the shoulders still end their move back. It creates the most important factor, the sum of the small X-factors = the torque/radial disatance between the lead hip and the rear shoulder. It stops the latter ultimately and, after short compressing phase, speeds up the lead shoulder joint. This means that one will find it extremely difficult to benefit from the SPC concept of the upper body area without the correct application of it in the pelvis area earlier in the swing. This is, BTW, what VJ Trolio found in Hogan's swing and dared to call it "a missing puzzle". I would dare to say "a missing very important puzzle". Too bad that he did not rather see the big picture of his discovery and what important things can happen because of the fact that the SPC happens not in the same time in hips and shoulders.

The correct sequencing of the events is the most important thing. If you master it (and it is not so hard at all with all necessary presets at setup plus the grip plus the correct backswing - nothing really more) you will feel the spirit of automatism in the motion for sure.

 

If you still can see something unclear - do not hesitate to ask further questions here.

 

Cheers

[FlyingWedge]

Dariusz J.

I finally got a chance to read your thread on biokinetics. Most of the stuff is easy to explain to any level of students i teach. My question is more on pivot which i find the missing link in many players swings. How would you explain as a teacher in simpler terms if you can? Also the rotational and linear movements of the hips. Well as you know your hands can have a Harvard education bbut the pivot is needed to bring the game to a higher level and repeatability. Hogan in my mind one of the best pivots of all time and one to copy but hard to teach.

Your thoughts and method would be helpful.

 

Dowidzenia

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz J.

I finally got a chance to read your thread on biokinetics. Most of the stuff is easy to explain to any level of students i teach. My question is more on pivot which i find the missing link in many players swings. How would you explain as a teacher in simpler terms if you can? Also the rotational and linear movements of the hips. Well as you know your hands can have a Harvard education bbut the pivot is needed to bring the game to a higher level and repeatability. Hogan in my mind one of the best pivots of all time and one to copy but hard to teach.

Your thoughts and method would be helpful.

 

Dowidzenia

 

FW, you are spot on saying that the whole stuff is very easy to explain. I hate using special lingos and all those words as adduction, suppination, sagittal plane, etc. but I used to present a solid deep background for a theory before formulating its conclusions - and I found it impossible to omit some medical notions.

I assume you know that all I describe concerns the biomechanically soundest swing motion pattern, therefore, the last thing one could tell is the universality of the theory. I assume that you also know that the pattern is completely pivot-guided one with a low plane arc. I prefered to underline it since if e.g. a 2-planer with armsy crossover release rather won't benefit fully (if at all) from e.g. the SPC concept or Hoganesque pelvis area motion.

 

Ad rem, you asked first how would I describe the pivot in simplest terms. IMO, the primary thing to understand is that various parts of the body pivots differently in time starting from ground up. Therefore, the crucial thing is creation of firm rear side points the way they enable the whole body pivoting correctly, i.e. differently in time in order to prepare the best scenario for transition so that the energy is not wasted there, but utilized fully in the downswing phase. If the pivot had only one orientation (say, an endless backswing) it would be enough to treat it as a continuous expansion via pulling by the rear side - but the change of orientation makes it much more difficult to automate.

 

You are very correct that you pay special attention to the hips. We are bipedals with two hip joints enframed in a hardly compressible pelvis. Therefore, it is very hard to treat the pelvis as a rubber. In order to cheat the reality, one needs to treat both hip joints differently. Hips are not just rotating. In fact, the time frame where both hips are rotating strictly simultaneously is very short. Most of the time, either one hip is rotating while the other is moving linearily or one hip is rotating while the other stays in place. The linear aspect is very important because the orientation of the swing is linear, moreover, all possible rotary motions are most efficient when the vertical axis of rotation is equal to a whole system's center of gravity. Therefore, the rear hip moving linearily to the target still before the downswing begins is just a preparation for this optimal condition for most efficient rotary motion.

Note that when the rear hip slides the lead hip merely rotates - it starts to rotate fully when the CoG of this area is in the right place and the rear hip has already created a firm point of leverage.

 

If you have more specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask them.

 

Cheers

[FlyingWedge]

Hi,

Note that when the rear hip slides the lead hip merely rotates - it starts to rotate fully when the CoG of this area is in the right place and the rear hip has already created a firm point of leverage.

Where do you feel is the right place for CoG to be. I agree finding the right CoG in the swing to make the hips work in a proper fashion or else we have swaying ,stalling or no rotation.

[Dariusz J.]

Where do you feel is the right place for CoG to be. I agree finding the right CoG in the swing to make the hips work in a proper fashion or else we have swaying ,stalling or no rotation.

 

Depends about which part of the motion we are talking about. The CoG shift in a pelvis area is a continuous process that starts from transferring the weight to the rear side thanks to the pivot in the backswing, then the compression phase begins that is accompanied with the linear motion of the rear hip towards the target. This is the first moment in the swing when the CoG of the pelvis moves in this direction. This process lasts until the lead side (read: lead hip) finally takes the lead in the swing that means the CoG in this area is already located at the lead hip joint - it happens, more or less, when the arms are parallel to the ground. Starting from there the Cog is on the lead hip joint and remains practically till the end of the follow through. We can observe that everything just turns around the lead hip joint, of course only in great quality rotary swings. It is easy to imagine that the ball position should correspond exactly with this point - hence the idea of the fixed ballposition for all clubs. If a golfer cannot establish a stable fixed vertical axis of rotation early enough or he/she will try to match it to the ball position (instead being otherwise) he/she will be plagued by inconsistencies.

It should be stressed here that we are talking about the CoG of the hip area only, since the whole body CoG is well behind the ball because of the secondary axis tilt created exactly thanks to the CoG shift in the hip area we are just discussing that enable to maintain a great leverage for the impact.

Thus, the answer is - if we freeze a golfer at impact he would fall onto the rear foot because the CoG in a static sense is all the time between both hips, however, in a dynamc sense both the CoG and vertical axis of the rotation are located very close to the lead hip joint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is also interesting, I've stumbled at the notion called the Wiberg angle that depicts the angle with which the femur "goes into" the hip joint. It does not from the bottom but partially from the outside. Therefore, it would be easier to understand why the dynamic CoG cannot be transferred directly over the femur bone but remains just behind it making the additional point of stabilization for the whole system of fast rotating body. Who knows, maybe the receipt of the purest rotation in the lead hip joint area for golfers is matching this angle with the angle of secondary axis tilt at impact :)

 

 

 

 

Cheers

[FlyingWedge]

Awesome post and reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JD3]

I have an "Italian" nose and deep set eyes, so I have no peripheral vision at all with my dominant right eye toward my target while looking at the ball. This really doesn't help my alignment at all. I have tried putting left handed, I could see the line better, but I just never had the same speed control and to me that was a more important factor.

well think about it. it's not like the golf ball is going anywhere. so losing sight of it out of your dominant eye wouldnt seem like an issue, would it? all i know is if i aim a gun im putting my dominant eye behind the other. if i do the reverse it's like i never feel set and im always fishing around for alignment.

[martinez]

Where do you feel is the right place for CoG to be. I agree finding the right CoG in the swing to make the hips work in a proper fashion or else we have swaying ,stalling or no rotation.

 

Depends about which part of the motion we are talking about. The CoG shift in a pelvis area is a continuous process that starts from transferring the weight to the rear side thanks to the pivot in the backswing, then the compression phase begins that is accompanied with the linear motion of the rear hip towards the target. This is the first moment in the swing when the CoG of the pelvis moves in this direction. This process lasts until the lead side (read: lead hip) finally takes the lead in the swing that means the CoG in this area is already located at the lead hip joint - it happens, more or less, when the arms are parallel to the ground. Starting from there the Cog is on the lead hip joint and remains practically till the end of the follow through. We can observe that everything just turns around the lead hip joint, of course only in great quality rotary swings. It is easy to imagine that the ball position should correspond exactly with this point - hence the idea of the fixed ballposition for all clubs. If a golfer cannot establish a stable fixed vertical axis of rotation early enough or he/she will try to match it to the ball position (instead being otherwise) he/she will be plagued by inconsistencies.

It should be stressed here that we are talking about the CoG of the hip area only, since the whole body CoG is well behind the ball because of the secondary axis tilt created exactly thanks to the CoG shift in the hip area we are just discussing that enable to maintain a great leverage for the impact.

Thus, the answer is - if we freeze a golfer at impact he would fall onto the rear foot because the CoG in a static sense is all the time between both hips, however, in a dynamc sense both the CoG and vertical axis of the rotation are located very close to the lead hip joint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is also interesting, I've stumbled at the notion called the Wiberg angle that depicts the angle with which the femur "goes into" the hip joint. It does not from the bottom but partially from the outside. Therefore, it would be easier to understand why the dynamic CoG cannot be transferred directly over the femur bone but remains just behind it making the additional point of stabilization for the whole system of fast rotating body. Who knows, maybe the receipt of the purest rotation in the lead hip joint area for golfers is matching this angle with the angle of secondary axis tilt at impact :)

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

This is why I swing behind my legs...your work is behind you....the tailbone releases, the legs "disappear" behind you......your hips must expand open for that to be possible. You need a deep pivot (bow) or else you'll hump the goat and sling it.

 

Great post DJ.

[Dariusz J.]

Thanks, Gents. I believe it is very important to understand what happens in the pelvis area because this is the most crucial area of the human body in many sports activities, golf included.

 

Martinez, that's why I regard your concept of the swing very highly and consider it as very influential for those who cannot backswing correctly. You are dead on that without a completed backswing one cannot fully benefit from it in the downswing phase, no matter if one is just willing to look through the view of the SPC concept or not.

 

Cheers

[Garyhard]

Holding the thought on center of magnetic energy(e.g., the heart) like a spining top.

 

Would'nt the upper bodys motion dictate the hips Cog. The spin being in the chest cavety ( top-the head:bottom-the hips)

 

Some time take a top, get it spining the try too maipulate the bottom.

 

Is that the results of hip Cog?

[Dariusz J.]

Holding the thought on center of magnetic energy(e.g., the heart) like a spining top.

 

Would'nt the upper bodys motion dictate the hips Cog. The spin being in the chest cavety ( top-the head:bottom-the hips)

 

Some time take a top, get it spining the try too maipulate the bottom.

 

Is that the results of hip Cog?

 

Gary, definitely the upper body positions reflect what happens in the lower parts. The rule of counterbalancing - the more your butt sticks out the more your head goes forward and down.

I do not know anything about the impact of the magnetic energy center you speak about (sounds interesting to read something about it though - could you recommend a good lecture in the net ?) but I believe that the pelvis area motion that helps to load the momentum happens physically thanks to friction between feet and the ground. Our subconscious mind "knows" the direction for our energy to trasform into the flight of the ball and sets the optimal sequence of motions to reach the goal in a most effective way taking into account the necessity of staying in balance. That is why, IMO, a rotary golfer as e.g. Hogan could not use his beautiful swing when standing on ice.

 

Cheers

[martinez]

Holding the thought on center of magnetic energy(e.g., the heart) like a spining top.

 

Would'nt the upper bodys motion dictate the hips Cog. The spin being in the chest cavety ( top-the head:bottom-the hips)

 

Some time take a top, get it spining the try too maipulate the bottom.

 

Is that the results of hip Cog?

My Heart is the top of the swivel......shoulders arms and club are the fingers on the top. The top initiates the movement of the fingers.....and just when the fingers want to take over, the top forces their change in direction.

 

The heart and core don't need to be twisted separately...they are part of a unit. I feel like a steel rod is between my heart and core and it can only move one way and that is longer.

[JD3]

JD, alignment is an issue in both cases as e.g. a good thread about eye dominance in putting confirmed.

Even if we assume that in case of a lead dominant golfer the issue is somehow bigger, I still think that such a golfer is blessed with this gift more than a rear eye dominant one.

 

Cheers

I read the Immelman piece in latest Golf Magazine in a drs' office today. Interestingly he says he's left handed, which I'm guessing means he's left eye dominant too (there seems to be a correlation.)

[Dariusz J.]

I read the Immelman piece in latest Golf Magazine in a drs' office today. Interestingly he says he's left handed, which I'm guessing means he's left eye dominant too (there seems to be a correlation.)

 

The chances are that, as you said, he's a lead eye dominant golfer in this situation, are rather big. Only the minority of the population are cross-dominant persons (eye vs. hand dominance). Since it is not the only case of playing against natural hand dominance amongst PGA Tour players (Mickelson comes to mind) I start to wonder if the eye dominance issue is even more important than I thought - say, more important than the hand dominance for instance.

I would be delighted if PGA made a research about it and present to us how many % of all Tour players are lead eye dominant ones....or better write it in each golfer's profile, e.g. "plays: right handed, left eye dominant".

 

Cheers

[Garyhard]

Concerning the importance of eye dominace, this maybe premature for me to comment on, however!!!

 

Given-setup is important (e.g., body allignment,etc...) eye or sight too target and eye or sight for the line. (between two points is a straight line.)

 

By using my thumb as a plum, i inherently setup my distance and line to the flag pole.

 

How does this work for me. Not sure! just, know it works.

 

i hold my arm out extended fully in front of me and the target(thumb straight up)then, hold my thumb on top of the flag pole, say 125 yrds out. then blink eyes back and forth untill the flag pole is center too my left eye and right eye, blinking.

 

From there; there are af ew more setups i use with my thumb (usually i will holded a golf club in my hands, so, others don't see what i'm doing).

 

Three thing i plumb for using my thumb:

distance-theline too target-body allignment.

 

i would prefer not getting into much about how i can use this, although, this topic shifted to eye mechanics in your out-standing work, the work of art i see in biomechanical golf.

 

AS for left or right hand golfer and which eye is dominet. i'm not sure that makes as much of a difference, due to, i switch hit. Usually switching my arms when i plum my shots left to right.

 

if i don't plum first, the rest of my setup is off.

 

Oh, bye the way, this is the visual setup everone(i'm sure uses) just probably different tec.

 

 

 

Commenting from my inexperience, yet, excellent skill level and training. I hope this is worth your time.

 

Thanks

[Garyhard]

The last month i'v been following the forum topics.

 

I have read sevam's, TMO, Slicefixer, One plane stroke, also; read Henry Cottens info and Carey G. Mumford piece.

 

Overall, it's alot of info to diegest. Yet, extremly valuable. I could'nt thank particapators anough. Like your angle, the best, Although, i don't always agree on the differing theories.

 

Carey G. Mumford mention in that thier study was destroyed in a flood in 1980.

I have no back ground on this yet. But sounds very, very interesting.

 

Meanwhile, i'm planing to take more lessons from my trusted trainers, i'll check to see if they would be interested in sharing analyises back and forth-if you have the time. I would like them to share info with you.

 

Thanks!

[Dariusz J.]

Thank you for nice words, Gary.

 

As I said before - feel free to share your thoughts here and I'd love to discuss biokinetics in golf with everyone, help everyone within the range of my possibilities and knowledge and learn from everyone as well. It would be a great pleasure to discuss it with your trainers and yourself.

 

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

Just a side note - for all fans of biokinetics and its golf swing aspects - I've created a raw forum that will serve for detailed discussions in the subject:

 

http://www.biokineticgolfswing.forom.pl/

 

It does not mean that the BioThread is dead - on the contrary, I will be enriching this thread here with the most important novelties. This thread has become too long to run a standard detailed discussion, IMO.

My plan is to update it as frequently as something important comes out in the matter.

 

If there are further questions here in this thread, nothing will change. The BioThread is still alive for all who wants it.

 

Cheers

[JD3]

Pretty cool D. When are you coming out with your book? One question: do you think "feet" deserve their own section, even if it runs the gamut from totally passive to the real secret? I notice footwork is an area Hardy never committed a seperate section to and maybe he would have made better observations if he had.

[Dariusz J.]

Pretty cool D. When are you coming out with your book? One question: do you think "feet" deserve their own section, even if it runs the gamut from totally passive to the real secret? I notice footwork is an area Hardy never committed a seperate section to and maybe he would have made better observations if he had.

 

C'mon, JD...who am I to write A BOOK ? I am just an avid amateur golf theorist, not even a true reputated biomechanics expert. It is my hobby, OK, serious hobby, but neither I have the experiences, nor the financial possibilities to do researches for a larger scale that would be more than necessary. Granted, I had and still have in my plans to edit a manual which will consist of maximum pics and minimum words...but it is too early to do it. I do hope that further discussions, prolly with swing experts, let us all to have a short well-intended guide for avid golfers.

 

Yep, I have mentioned several times during my days on OP Forum about the foot section...without any results. Some may still jump on me that I am unfairly criticizing golf teachers, but I treat their work as a business and not a charity. Nothing wrong with that - it's their job. I respect this. But the role of a swing theoretist is, to some extent, to verify all what happens around. At least, I think it is.

 

Cheers

[JD3]

Yep, I have mentioned several times during my days on OP Forum about the foot section...without any results. Some may still jump on me that I am unfairly criticizing golf teachers, but I treat their work as a business and not a charity. Nothing wrong with that - it's their job. I respect this. But the role of a swing theoretist is, to some extent, to verify all what happens around. At least, I think it is.

 

Cheers

That's what I'm saying, your forum has body sections comparable to Hardy's, but you don't give feet or footwork a seperate section.

[Dariusz J.]

Yep, I have mentioned several times during my days on OP Forum about the foot section...without any results. Some may still jump on me that I am unfairly criticizing golf teachers, but I treat their work as a business and not a charity. Nothing wrong with that - it's their job. I respect this. But the role of a swing theoretist is, to some extent, to verify all what happens around. At least, I think it is.

 

Cheers

That's what I'm saying, your forum has body sections comparable to Hardy's, but you don't give feet or footwork a seperate section.

 

Comparable to Hardy's ? Where ? There are just OP and TP sections on his forum (not mentioning that the admins created TP forum basing on our own requests)...

 

There is a Legs Section that covers all what happens with feet. In fact, this section will mainly cover what happens with legs from knee joints down, since the moton of both femurs are rather more dependent on the pelvis area motion. Besides, if there is something that cannot be touched in this section - there is still the Diagonal Stance subforum.

Having said that - if there is a need for creating another subforum - nothing is easier, JD. :)

 

Cheers

[JD3]

Comparable to Hardy's ? Where ? There are just OP and TP sections on his forum (not mentioning that the admins created TP forum basing on our own requests)...

 

There is a Legs Section that covers all what happens with feet. In fact, this section will mainly cover what happens with legs from knee joints down, since the moton of both femurs are rather more dependent on the pelvis area motion. Besides, if there is something that cannot be touched in this section - there is still the Diagonal Stance subforum.

Having said that - if there is a need for creating another subforum - nothing is easier, JD. :)

 

Cheers

not his forums, his books and videos. i recall: arms, shoulders, hips and spine angle as the seperate areas

[Dariusz J.]

Comparable to Hardy's ? Where ? There are just OP and TP sections on his forum (not mentioning that the admins created TP forum basing on our own requests)...

 

There is a Legs Section that covers all what happens with feet. In fact, this section will mainly cover what happens with legs from knee joints down, since the moton of both femurs are rather more dependent on the pelvis area motion. Besides, if there is something that cannot be touched in this section - there is still the Diagonal Stance subforum.

Having said that - if there is a need for creating another subforum - nothing is easier, JD. :)

 

Cheers

not his forums, his books and videos. i recall: arms, shoulders, hips and spine angle as the seperate areas

 

OK, I understood. I have divided the human bodyotherwise - hips and shoulders are parts of the main body, distal parts are just distal parts. IMHO, this particular division makes it easier to understand what hapens with the body talking about such concepts as e.g. the X-factor or the SPC one. If we create an independent feet subforum not a lot will be left for The Legs section, in fact. But, as I said - nothing is easier - if you present valid arguments why feet should be treated independently from legs - I'll create the subforum. :)

 

Cheers

[JD3]

OK, I understood. I have divided the human bodyotherwise - hips and shoulders are parts of the main body, distal parts are just distal parts. IMHO, this particular division makes it easier to understand what hapens with the body talking about such concepts as e.g. the X-factor or the SPC one. If we create an independent feet subforum not a lot will be left for The Legs section, in fact. But, as I said - nothing is easier - if you present valid arguments why feet should be treated independently from legs - I'll create the subforum. :)

 

Cheers

I'd say it's a matter if you want to integrate what Sevam1 says.

[Dariusz J.]

OK, I understood. I have divided the human bodyotherwise - hips and shoulders are parts of the main body, distal parts are just distal parts. IMHO, this particular division makes it easier to understand what hapens with the body talking about such concepts as e.g. the X-factor or the SPC one. If we create an independent feet subforum not a lot will be left for The Legs section, in fact. But, as I said - nothing is easier - if you present valid arguments why feet should be treated independently from legs - I'll create the subforum. :)

 

Cheers

I'd say it's a matter if you want to integrate what Sevam1 says.

 

Why should I want to ? Mike says about The Move as a conscious action. My work was, is and always will be against any conscious actions one can imagine in the swing motion. Presets, stance, grip and correct backswing automates everything. The rest is just the beauty of the SPC theory.

 

Cheers