The Big Picture of Biokinetics in a golf swing motion

[martinez]

The only way I can describe it differently/more basically without actually demonstrating it is to say that when the squat occurs it is more a pulling of the core off the ball while the sternum remains reaching out over it. The knees don't flex more toward the ball, they flex more because the core has shifted down and back slightly.

 

If I can be so bold I think Tigers occasional issue with the lower spine compressing seems to me to stem from driving the arms (hangover from his time with Butch?) which pulls the rib cage toward the hip on the right side (see my avatar). I see none of that with Hogan. I also see none on the range swings of Tigers that I used as a model for a while.

It is the cause when I do it and I have always in the past struggled with getting under the arm plane as Tiger does with the Driver.

 

Squat hogan

 

Sure you have seen, but maybe watch with a different perspective.

[Dariusz J.]

OK, got it, mate. You are talking about the compression of the transverse plane (an imaginary plane that divides the body in upper and lower halves, perpendicular to the sagittal plane) that describes the squat phenomenon.

I want to apologize you in advance for shallowing the dilemma, but I am of the opinion that squat is a natural result of the changes that occur in the sagittal plane. The SPC in the pelvis area leads to the CoG movement in this area to the South West (assuming we are facing North). Since the CoG moves not only forward but also away from the ball it is natural for a golfer to perform the squat down as a counterbalancing motion - that's why the head goes down and the spine angle increases. This is I guess what you feel as pulling of the core off the ball while the sternum remains reaching out over it. You are 100% right that it should be totally independent on the knee joints bend, since what happens with them is a pure reaction.

I agree that your avatar resembles more of Woods than Hogan - your CoG shift in the pelvis area is more to the West than to the South - which can be observed in Tiger's swing very well also. Moreover, I don't think it is a coincidence that Tiger's squat mainly consists of bending the knees to gain momentum while Hogan's one is a natural consequence of the CoG shift in the pelvis area that let him gain the same momentum sort of automatically. A farther consequence of this is that Hogan's upper body is open at impact and his rear arm bent in elbow on the hip, while Tiger's is square and both his arms are too much in the front of the body with not so bent elbow. IMO, Snead's origin of squat is sort of inbetween them, however, he could still achieve a better impact position than Woods (at least, until now).

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[martinez]

Well summed up.

 

What's interesting for me is that yesterday I felt for the first time that I was rotating my right leg so that the front of my femur bone went from North to West on the back swing while my tush just went South. Deepest pivot I have ever had and yet the most stable and it was easy to feel everything releasing SouthWest on the through swing. I didn't have to move around my body.....which is the swing I have been searching for. I want my body to expand enough so that I can move through it.

[Dariusz J.]

Well summed up.

 

What's interesting for me is that yesterday I felt for the first time that I was rotating my right leg so that the front of my femur bone went from North to West on the back swing while my tush just went South. Deepest pivot I have ever had and yet the most stable and it was easy to feel everything releasing SouthWest on the through swing. I didn't have to move around my body.....which is the swing I have been searching for. I want my body to expand enough so that I can move through it.

 

That's great news, mate ! With your potential you will reach this goal sooner than you think :) Do not forget to post your swing when you consider it done...the more model swings to follow and learn from, the better for all of us.

 

Cheers

[martinez]

Vanity will preclude me from hiding it DJ ;)

[Dariusz J.]

Martinez, just found a great drawing illustrating the difference in squat mechanics (and its origin and consequences) we were talking about...hope you like it, mate.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

[Garyhard]

have some thoughts to share-think your work is great-not sure,but, your must have a photographic mind (lots of stuff). ? Q. can some people have a photo mind "internal-physical" and other people "external-memorization skill"

 

Thank! i'll read your stuff more and comment latter, if i can find a good question or answer.

[martinez]

Martinez, just found a great drawing illustrating the difference in squat mechanics (and its origin and consequences) we were talking about...hope you like it, mate.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

I will try to find Tiger and Moe pics in the same position. I would say Tiger has similarities to both Snead and Hogan...somewhere in the middle of those two.

[finalist]

More and more I'm thinking one of the most important things to do is keep track of the ball with my dominant eye.

 

I'm RH and right eye dominant.

 

My short range putts, aprox 7' or less, has dramatically improved in a very, very short time by just tilting my head so that my right eye can see the hole ever so slightly. It's primary focus is the ball, but I try to keep the hole in my vision field with my right eye. This has been incredible for my game. No more putting from memory or hoping my alignment is spot on with a more straight down on the ball head orientation with my left eye "seeing" the hole.

 

I'm also a classic over swinger with the longer clubs, and this can create a head angle where the ball sort of disappears at the top of my swing. (more of a small white blur). Realizing this from this thread I now can shorten my backswing a little just by keeping the ball in focus better and this leads to much better contact. It's kind of amazing how much my right eye can dictate my body's mechanics.

[Dariusz J.]

have some thoughts to share-think your work is great-not sure,but, your must have a photographic mind (lots of stuff). ? Q. can some people have a photo mind "internal-physical" and other people "external-memorization skill"

 

Thank! i'll read your stuff more and comment latter, if i can find a good question or answer.

 

Gary, I am not sure about photographic memory as well, but I must tell you that it is unbelievable how closer one gets to real answers the deeper one goes into biomechanic stuff. Some answers are coming sequentially if one finds a correct sequence of events.

Please feel free to contribute in the thread - many answers are still waiting to be revealed.

 

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

More and more I'm thinking one of the most important things to do is keep track of the ball with my dominant eye.

 

I'm RH and right eye dominant.

 

My short range putts, aprox 7' or less, has dramatically improved in a very, very short time by just tilting my head so that my right eye can see the hole ever so slightly. It's primary focus is the ball, but I try to keep the hole in my vision field with my right eye. This has been incredible for my game. No more putting from memory or hoping my alignment is spot on with a more straight down on the ball head orientation with my left eye "seeing" the hole.

 

I'm also a classic over swinger with the longer clubs, and this can create a head angle where the ball sort of disappears at the top of my swing. (more of a small white blur). Realizing this from this thread I now can shorten my backswing a little just by keeping the ball in focus better and this leads to much better contact. It's kind of amazing how much my right eye can dictate my body's mechanics.

 

 

Finalist, it is great that you are on a good path. Nothing much to add to your post, maybe just one thing.

One of the finest teachers of recent times claims that golfers should focus both eyes on the ball in order to ensure the optimal depth of perception and hand-eye coordination. Although recent researches proved that a short-term lose of binocular vision does not matter, I am of the opinion that it is a bit different when losing binocularity if one loses a dominant eye sight or a subdominant eye sight.

A lead eye dominant golfer always leaves his dominant eye on the ball; OTOH, a rear eye dominant golfer have an alternative - either to leave both eyes or to leave only the subdominant eye.

Therefore, I am sure that the last scenario (leaving only subdominant eye on the ball - as in your examples) is definitly the worst one with all its consequences.

God knows how many rear eye dominant golfers struggle(d) because they listen to conventional golf swing theories advices to follow Hogan, Snead or Nicklaus, not knowing that all of them were lead eye dominant players.

 

Cheers

[JD3]

More and more I'm thinking one of the most important things to do is keep track of the ball with my dominant eye.

 

I'm RH and right eye dominant.

 

My short range putts, aprox 7' or less, has dramatically improved in a very, very short time by just tilting my head so that my right eye can see the hole ever so slightly. It's primary focus is the ball, but I try to keep the hole in my vision field with my right eye. This has been incredible for my game. No more putting from memory or hoping my alignment is spot on with a more straight down on the ball head orientation with my left eye "seeing" the hole.

 

I'm also a classic over swinger with the longer clubs, and this can create a head angle where the ball sort of disappears at the top of my swing. (more of a small white blur). Realizing this from this thread I now can shorten my backswing a little just by keeping the ball in focus better and this leads to much better contact. It's kind of amazing how much my right eye can dictate my body's mechanics.

 

 

Finalist, it is great that you are on a good path. Nothing much to add to your post, maybe just one thing.

One of the finest teachers of recent times claims that golfers should focus both eyes on the ball in order to ensure the optimal depth of perception and hand-eye coordination. Although recent researches proved that a short-term lose of binocular vision does not matter, I am of the opinion that it is a bit different when losing binocularity if one loses a dominant eye sight or a subdominant eye sight.

A lead eye dominant golfer always leaves his dominant eye on the ball; OTOH, a rear eye dominant golfer have an alternative - either to leave both eyes or to leave only the subdominant eye.

Therefore, I am sure that the last scenario (leaving only subdominant eye on the ball - as in your examples) is definitly the worst one with all its consequences.

God knows how many rear eye dominant golfers struggle(d) because they listen to conventional golf swing theories advices to follow Hogan, Snead or Nicklaus, not knowing that all of them were lead eye dominant players.

 

Cheers

I'm left handed and right eye dominant, which makes me lead eye dominant. What are the golf implications?

[martinez]

The implications mostly revolve around you being a lucky SOB. :P It's definitley preferable imo to be a lead eye (cross) dominant over a rear eye one.

 

I'm Right/Right and I find that not trying to turn is a big help to me keeping my right eye steady on the ball (a must for me).....rather than turn I'm pulling everything straight behind my eye. Also finalist, I experimented with that in my puttinga while ago.... it works, you're right. I settled on a method that had me returning my sight along the line from the hole to the ball and stopping my head when the ball comes into my view with my right eye.

 

Cheers.

[Dariusz J.]

I'm left handed and right eye dominant, which makes me lead eye dominant. What are the golf implications?

 

Martinez is 100% right.

 

Shortly, to add something and answer your question, a lead eye dominant golfer benefits from (in a full rotary swing):

 

a. more efficient backswing - the head turn does not interfere with the upper body turn too early before the full backswing is completed;

 

b. better impact allignments - the whole head staying behind the ball at impact creates a possibility of utilizing better angle of axis tilt.

 

...plus all positive consequences that accompany the above mentioned issues.

 

 

Cheers

[JD3]

Well Martinez and Dariusz, I think maybe the grass is always greener on the other side!!! I think being lead eye dominant makes it difficult to align properly and also messes up depth perception. Think of how you aim a gun, or better yet for Martinez a bow! You set your dominant eye on the target line, and then position your weak eye AHEAD of it. I think what happens is your weak eye just provides some "color" to your dominant eye on aiming and target depth. Yes having your lead eye ahead does facillitate a better turn because you can keep looking at the ball when you turn away, but on the other hand it makes it a lot harder to align properly IMHO. I know for years I have had fits getting properly aligned and had to use a series of props and drills to counter this when I'd much rather be focusing my efforts on other things. It's an ongoing process that never ends.

[Dariusz J.]

JD, alignment is an issue in both cases as e.g. a good thread about eye dominance in putting confirmed.

Even if we assume that in case of a lead dominant golfer the issue is somehow bigger, I still think that such a golfer is blessed with this gift more than a rear eye dominant one.

 

Cheers

[martinez]

I have an "Italian" nose and deep set eyes, so I have no peripheral vision at all with my dominant right eye toward my target while looking at the ball. This really doesn't help my alignment at all. I have tried putting left handed, I could see the line better, but I just never had the same speed control and to me that was a more important factor.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

im probably going to be greatly chastised for mentioning this on these hallowed forums, but here goes.

 

IMHO the majority of golfers play golf purely for enjoyment, they dont want to invest any more time learning golf then trying a quick tip, the mixed results of the quick tip route causes them to become learning averse even further. they just want want to play a round without loosing a ball, they want to hit every green in a maximum of 1+GIR for all 18 holes and greatly enjoy any GIRs.

 

there mechanical problems are mostly they pull over the top, they inconsistently rescue the pull by differing means, hands, body, sling, hump, flip, whatever worked for one club they try with the next, and then add some new rescue to that misshit club, constantly chasing their tail, until they settle on a swing that half works for most clubs.

 

now it hasn't got the sexy hogan angle to it but if these players have low scoring goals could your work not be applied to them as the model rather than hogan, teach them their pull.

 

if you found the biomechanical limitations of their pull, you would only need to teach them 3 things all set from a biomechanical limitation preshot drill.

1) a ballposition for for each length of club

2) a grip that would match the face to the path at impact

3) a pull angle that they would stand closed to

these 3 would be different for each club but the limitation drill would find the correct combination of the 3 for each shot.

 

they would never get on the pga tour, but they would enjoy the game much more which is all they want from the game. IMHO someone is eventually going to investigate something similar to this and i feel you are half way there.

 

i know it has a 7 minute abs ring to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mioHO4hoM&NR :D , but i feel the biomechanical setup particularly the grip, visually is going to be a hard sell to the better player. people fear what is different, unless they are really ready for change.

[Garyhard]

Thanks!

 

Have and interesting experience to share.

i was not involved playing or practicing golf for about 35 yr.

How does this add up. Well, when i was young, neghborhood country club friends father showed use how to play golf. More like trained us. This training was suppose too materialize with practic, except i did not start to practic golf until three years ago.

 

Some of the balance tec., and muscle exercises stuck with me.

Know i swing both left and right. My right is mucsle memory clasic style. My left is intierly fast reflexs style.

Is this unusual. Have to go, i'll finish the reset later!!!!

[Dariusz J.]

im probably going to be greatly chastised for mentioning this on these hallowed forums, but here goes.

 

IMHO the majority of golfers play golf purely for enjoyment, they dont want to invest any more time learning golf then trying a quick tip, the mixed results of the quick tip route causes them to become learning averse even further. they just want want to play a round without loosing a ball, they want to hit every green in a maximum of 1+GIR for all 18 holes and greatly enjoy any GIRs.

 

there mechanical problems are mostly they pull over the top, they inconsistently rescue the pull by differing means, hands, body, sling, hump, flip, whatever worked for one club they try with the next, and then add some new rescue to that misshit club, constantly chasing their tail, until they settle on a swing that half works for most clubs.

 

now it hasn't got the sexy hogan angle to it but if these players have low scoring goals could your work not be applied to them as the model rather than hogan, teach them their pull.

 

if you found the biomechanical limitations of their pull, you would only need to teach them 3 things all set from a biomechanical limitation preshot drill.

1) a ballposition for for each length of club

2) a grip that would match the face to the path at impact

3) a pull angle that they would stand closed to

these 3 would be different for each club but the limitation drill would find the correct combination of the 3 for each shot.

 

they would never get on the pga tour, but they would enjoy the game much more which is all they want from the game. IMHO someone is eventually going to investigate something similar to this and i feel you are half way there.

 

i know it has a 7 minute abs ring to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mioHO4hoM&NR :D , but i feel the biomechanical setup particularly the grip, visually is going to be a hard sell to the better player. people fear what is different, unless they are really ready for change.

 

Joe, your post is very good one. This is all about the biokinetic stuff aimed at automatic sequence of events I have been working for half a year from now. But I got something better that your 3 points for a puller, I believe. Say, it is enough to add a point no.4 and the guy starts to come with a better approach path to the ball and he forgets about his pulls. As Mr.Hogan said - there is really no reason for a weekend amateur to hit high 70-ies or low 80-ies...and he did not mean short game or putts !

Imagine that all you can do during your setup is enough to have a decent amount of lag, decent approach path angles, decent impact alignment, decent trajectory, etc. The rest is just the realm of your subconscious mind that leads your swing better than anything else. It is a no brainer. Just as in case of driving a car - you do not need to think about "how to push the pedal" or "how to turn the sterring wheel" - you just drive thinking about many other things and it is your subconscious mind that REALLY DRIVES YOUR CAR.

 

Cheers

[spider]

im probably going to be greatly chastised for mentioning this on these hallowed forums, but here goes.

 

IMHO the majority of golfers play golf purely for enjoyment, they dont want to invest any more time learning golf then trying a quick tip, the mixed results of the quick tip route causes them to become learning averse even further. they just want want to play a round without loosing a ball, they want to hit every green in a maximum of 1+GIR for all 18 holes and greatly enjoy any GIRs.

 

there mechanical problems are mostly they pull over the top, they inconsistently rescue the pull by differing means, hands, body, sling, hump, flip, whatever worked for one club they try with the next, and then add some new rescue to that misshit club, constantly chasing their tail, until they settle on a swing that half works for most clubs.

 

now it hasn't got the sexy hogan angle to it but if these players have low scoring goals could your work not be applied to them as the model rather than hogan, teach them their pull.

 

if you found the biomechanical limitations of their pull, you would only need to teach them 3 things all set from a biomechanical limitation preshot drill.

1) a ballposition for for each length of club

2) a grip that would match the face to the path at impact

3) a pull angle that they would stand closed to

these 3 would be different for each club but the limitation drill would find the correct combination of the 3 for each shot.

 

they would never get on the pga tour, but they would enjoy the game much more which is all they want from the game. IMHO someone is eventually going to investigate something similar to this and i feel you are half way there.

 

i know it has a 7 minute abs ring to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mioHO4hoM&NR :D , but i feel the biomechanical setup particularly the grip, visually is going to be a hard sell to the better player. people fear what is different, unless they are really ready for change.

 

Joe, your post is very good one. This is all about the biokinetic stuff aimed at automatic sequence of events I have been working for half a year from now. But I got something better that your 3 points for a puller, I believe. Say, it is enough to add a point no.4 and the guy starts to come with a better approach path to the ball and he forgets about his pulls. As Mr.Hogan said - there is really no reason for a weekend amateur to hit high 70-ies or low 80-ies...and he did not mean short game or putts !

Imagine that all you can do during your setup is enough to have a decent amount of lag, decent approach path angles, decent impact alignment, decent trajectory, etc. The rest is just the realm of your subconscious mind that leads your swing better than anything else. It is a no brainer. Just as in case of driving a car - you do not need to think about "how to push the pedal" or "how to turn the sterring wheel" - you just drive thinking about many other things and it is your subconscious mind that REALLY DRIVES YOUR CAR.

 

Cheers

 

Dariusz J. you should check out some posts made by KeyGolf and his site clearkey golf. Maybe you have all ready but your statement was what he speaks about and has posted here on this site. Cool stuff

[martinez]

Dariusz J. you should check out some posts made by KeyGolf and his site clearkey golf. Maybe you have all ready but your statement was what he speaks about and has posted here on this site. Cool stuff

+1............His site is bookmarked for me.

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz J. you should check out some posts made by KeyGolf and his site clearkey golf. Maybe you have all ready but your statement was what he speaks about and has posted here on this site. Cool stuff

 

Spider, thanks for the reference. I've just returned from the site and can confirm that it is a very interesting place with a lot to read and digest. Although I want to reach the subconscious mind guidance through mechanics and their researches are rather directed at the "deep side" I will revert to this when I have more free time for sure.

 

Cheers

[finalist]

More and more I'm thinking one of the most important things to do is keep track of the ball with my dominant eye.

 

I'm RH and right eye dominant.

 

My short range putts, aprox 7' or less, has dramatically improved in a very, very short time by just tilting my head so that my right eye can see the hole ever so slightly. It's primary focus is the ball, but I try to keep the hole in my vision field with my right eye.

 

Another benefit to putting as described above for RH right eye players. I've noticed my putting backswings are shorter and have no deceleration because I'm looking more towards the target (VERY slightly), and the putter does not get pulled back too far during the backswing. I've noticed my backswing is shorter because I loose sight of the putter early so I don't keep dragging it back. This shorter backswing helps create a motion that promotes accelerating into the ball.

[spider]

Dariusz J. you should check out some posts made by KeyGolf and his site clearkey golf. Maybe you have all ready but your statement was what he speaks about and has posted here on this site. Cool stuff

 

Spider, thanks for the reference. I've just returned from the site and can confirm that it is a very interesting place with a lot to read and digest. Although I want to reach the subconscious mind guidance through mechanics and their researches are rather directed at the "deep side" I will revert to this when I have more free time for sure.

 

Cheers

 

 

Check out the posts he made for the putting David Orr post about what each of us think while putting. He made some good posts in there. It didn't seem to deep to me really just about what you wrote earlier.... about driving a car while thinking about other things. I think the whole jist is practice to make something a habit (such as your idea on the correct swing) then while playing have key (poem etc) to take your mind off the task so that habit comes through. Obviously not doing it justice but typing fast while at work. :)

[Garyhard]

IMHO-COG-BTW

 

this is the difference, i have found, having the ability in swinging-switch hitting.

 

Right side- i look to the center of the golf ball 9back side)and fix-a-spot (golf ball dimpel),then with my perifial vision i can see the club head ( about waist high) with my eye (right) fixed on the golf ball, coming down( witch helps me glide the clubhead, to the target) i land the clubhead, on the dipple, were i had been focused.

 

Left side-On my backswing, i look up at my hands position(just before i **** my wrist) then, i turn my head and eyes down to the point, on the golf ball, as my wrist are comming back-at this time every thing goes blank-all i can think of, whats happening(cognitive) is that my hands want to bet my eyes before contact with the golf ball.

 

ball position plays a part, however, not the way i've read others comment. To me, the ball position is center(my right eye looks to the back side center-myleft on top). My perifial vision left-i see the flag pole just after impact-right, as i said earlyer, my club head into impact.

Know, while the ball is center(left or right) my feet position matters very little-other than balance(IMHO COG-BTW) It's probably best understood by thinking of ring-around-the-roseryand the golf balls in the center.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

Joe, your post is very good one. This is all about the biokinetic stuff aimed at automatic sequence of events I have been working for half a year from now. But I got something better that your 3 points for a puller, I believe. Say, it is enough to add a point no.4 and the guy starts to come with a better approach path to the ball and he forgets about his pulls. As Mr.Hogan said - there is really no reason for a weekend amateur to hit high 70-ies or low 80-ies...and he did not mean short game or putts !

 

just to clarify, i didnt mean scrap your thesis, i like your work. i meant when your finished. anyways, no need to reply, stay on topic.

[Dariusz J.]

Check out the posts he made for the putting David Orr post about what each of us think while putting. He made some good posts in there. It didn't seem to deep to me really just about what you wrote earlier.... about driving a car while thinking about other things. I think the whole jist is practice to make something a habit (such as your idea on the correct swing) then while playing have key (poem etc) to take your mind off the task so that habit comes through. Obviously not doing it justice but typing fast while at work. :)

 

Will do. Yes, the whole jist is to make habits, but IMO the best way to do it is through a proper mechanics that one can trust in completely. That's why it is so tempting an idea to settle everything in the setup phase; much more tempting that to make habits by a hard training and creating "muscle memory" with a not ideal mechanics, don't you think ? :)

 

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

IMHO-COG-BTW

 

this is the difference, i have found, having the ability in swinging-switch hitting.

 

Right side- i look to the center of the golf ball 9back side)and fix-a-spot (golf ball dimpel),then with my perifial vision i can see the club head ( about waist high) with my eye (right) fixed on the golf ball, coming down( witch helps me glide the clubhead, to the target) i land the clubhead, on the dipple, were i had been focused.

 

Left side-On my backswing, i look up at my hands position(just before i **** my wrist) then, i turn my head and eyes down to the point, on the golf ball, as my wrist are comming back-at this time every thing goes blank-all i can think of, whats happening(cognitive) is that my hands want to bet my eyes before contact with the golf ball.

 

ball position plays a part, however, not the way i've read others comment. To me, the ball position is center(my right eye looks to the back side center-myleft on top). My perifial vision left-i see the flag pole just after impact-right, as i said earlyer, my club head into impact.

Know, while the ball is center(left or right) my feet position matters very little-other than balance(IMHO COG-BTW) It's probably best understood by thinking of ring-around-the-roseryand the golf balls in the center.

 

Gary, as far as I know from your previous post, you have a rare ability to play right- and left-handed on the same level, yes ? I am asking since the above post is a bit unclear if it still concerns switching sides. Moreover, it would be good if you confirm additionally, which is your dominant eye.

The subject you touched is a great one albeit very deep and, frankly, I do not know if I am qualified enough to discuss such a subject. I personally do not know anyone who could play both sided on similar level (well, have heard that Mac O'Grady is close, but we cannot count on easy access to the info from MORAD part); moreover, this is not about the eye dominance only, but about the dominance of the whole body - arms and legs included. Lastly, I wonder if your talents can go along with your ambidextrity.

 

Cheers

[Garyhard]

Yes, and thank you!

 

i'm not a qualified teacher that is one reason i try to explain my thoughts. Not the best writer, however, i believe i have an unusual ability to manipulate the golf club, ball flight, and physical balance tech.

 

But still, most of all, elementary training.

 

For one- my training, which i recall some (from childhood) was more like play, but, this is the interesting part, most of all, i like to comment on.

We had too be able, to do a number of exercises before new lessons would being. I know believe, this was by design to get are muscles in tone. Why muscles in tone-too train the muscle at a level-programed in shape-programed out of shape. Ares were in shape, thus understanding balance and timing set at muscle tone.

 

For training then-we used a concentration tech. Try training an 8-yr-old with out getting his attention. I sure it was a challenge. i'm not going in to detail on this one.

 

Have to go,at work

Garyhard-