Tigers SQ driver I want more info

[DiscountDansGolf.com]

To kill an online myth

Take a read on this and give me some ammo to refute this columnist's quoted statement below:

"A few weeks ago, Nike announced that Chad Campbell would be using Nike’s new SasQuatch (SQ) driver. Then he goes and wins the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic the next week.

Next, with relatively little fanfare, Tiger Woods himself (cue the trumpets and heavenly choir) puts the SQ in play (the standard model, no less—not even the Tour version) and wins the Buick Invitational."

I don't beleive that the world should have to take this as it is written. Anybody here have any information?

[Gxgolfer]

There were lots of pics of the driver from the tournament week. USGA website list a few Tour only SQs. I don't think anyone's going to sign anything official that it was a retail version of the SQ in play. I think the GC WITB has Tiger playing a prototype Studio Stainles... Just standard marketing stuff.

[Ultimate]

Simple answer. It is a lie. Just look at the pictures. And the USGA Conforming Driver Head List.

There are only about five SQ's approved for play. One is the SQ 410 (almost nonexistent). Another is the SQ JDI (also irrelevant to this discussion). Then there are the three that we have seen; the 460 Max, which is a purely retail club. Then there is the SQ Tour 460. That clubhead is being sold at retail, but some tour players are using it. Then there is the MAX TOUR. That is what Tiger, and Chad Campbell, are using. Action photos of Tiger in tournament play, plus the USGA website, puts this rumor to rest. End of story. Any other questions?

 

I have one question; who wrote the article you are referring to?

 

You know, late in '05, we all saw Tiger put an SQ into play. At that time, we were all shocked that the sole configuration showed clearly it was not the "Tour" model that were were waiting to show up at our retailers'. It looked for all the world like the retail SQ Max. But at that time, pre- 1/1/06, not all driver heads had to be on the USGA list. And the SQ Max Tour was not on the list at that time. It is possible, however unlikely, that the '05 Max that Tiger tried breifly was that approved retail Max head, but I doubt it.

Again, in any event as to what that writer published, it is wrong. Pure and simple. And provable.

 

Edit. - Hey by the way, I see now who you are. You guys run a very good shop and I've been very pleased whenever I talk to one of your people on the phone. Private-club service with national discount prices. Pretty good slogan, eh? Let's talk about a deal for you to use it...

:cheesy: :)

[abewley]

Ultimate is correct.

[upandown]

Simple answer. It is a lie. Just look at the pictures. And the USGA Conforming Driver Head List.

There are only about five SQ's approved for play. One is the SQ 410 (almost nonexistent). Another is the SQ JDI (also irrelevant to this discussion). Then there are the three that we have seen; the 460 Max, which is a purely retail club. Then there is the SQ Tour 460. That clubhead is being sold at retail, but some tour players are using it. Then there is the MAX TOUR. That is what Tiger, and Chad Campbell, are using. Action photos of Tiger in tournament play, plus the USGA website, puts this rumor to rest. End of story. Any other questions?

 

correct :cheesy:

[nikemike]

In one sense, the guy is right, it definitely isn't the retail "Tour" model, it more closely resembles the "standard" model. This rides the fence on the "tour debate". His SQ looks like the Max. What makes it "tour": Loft, lie, internal weight, shaft, no serial number??

[abewley]

its tour for some custom "internal" reasons.. but also because it has no markings on the top of the club head... and its offered in 7.5*

 

 

thus it must be sent to the USGA as "different" from the retail ones...

[Ultimate]

In one sense, the guy is right, it definitely isn't the retail "Tour" model, it more closely resembles the "standard" model. This rides the fence on the "tour debate". His SQ looks like the Max. What makes it "tour": Loft, lie, internal weight, shaft, no serial number??

No, it is a completely different head, that is, what differentiates the retail "SQ 460 Max" and the "SQ 460 Max Tour." This is not like debating a tour-issued r7 TP from a retail r7 TP. On the USGA website, those are apparently the same head (only a single model identified). But with the Nikes, the USGA clearly and unequivocally identifies different clubheads. They ain't the same. It's not just different serial numbers, or different weighting and bending or anything else like that. They are different clubheads, and Tiger is NOT, repeat NOT playing either one of the two heads currently sold at retail. Period. Thank you, USGA.

[NikeProto]

The one thing that the USGA website does not show is the face of the two drivers..........................

[DiscountDansGolf.com]

This Quote came from a golf blogger Kiel Christianson at the following:

 

http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/kiel.chris...tomping_competi

 

I offered to eat one of his shoes and a sock if he could prove it... He then quoted a Nike Propogandist and settled on a shoelace..

[Ultimate]

The one thing that the USGA website does not show is the face of the two drivers..........................

I agree the USGA website could be better with face and crown photos added...

Might I ask, however, how a pic of the faces of the Max and the Max Tour might add to any disposition of this question? Sole pics of what Tiger was using, and the USGA sole pic, are all you need to see to answer the original question posed, right?

[Ultimate]

This Quote came from a golf blogger Kiel Christianson at the following:

 

http://www.travelgolf.com/blogs/kiel.chris...tomping_competi

 

I offered to eat one of his shoes and a sock if he could prove it... He then quoted a Nike Propogandist and settled on a shoelace..

Ahh yes, the ol' "I was misled by my sources" gambit. Make him read this website. And the USGA website. And look at the in-action photos of Tiger. Then, instead of eating shoelaces or anything else, he should do an ON-THE-RECORD interview with that source from Nike. And the Nike guy should be made to do all the same work we've done. We're right. The Nike guy is wrong. And that should be published on the guy's website, if he had any notion of doing his readers a service.

[Ultimate]

I know for a fact that Chad Cambpell is using a Tour sasquatch, teh same as you can get retail. it is a 7.5 loft. it looks identical to my 9.5 which in turn is identical to the store bought Tour SQs. I have seen and held chads. i dont know about tigers, it looks much deeper and not as long heel to toe as any of the others I have seen. looks like an ignite sized Sasquatch.

Hold on a second. I don't really want to argue with you. But what I'd like is for somebody with more time than I can spare, to pull off the web and post a good shot of the sole of the driver Campbell won with. I have a pretty clear recollection it was not a Nike SQ 460 Tour, which can easily be determined by looking at the configuration of the yellow weight pad.

 

You are saying CC plays with the SQ 460 Tour? I would agree with you that there is only one kind of "460 Tour" that is approved for play. I can only presume that the ones that the pros play (Michael Campbell, right? Who else? Cink?) are the same as the retail clubs, with custom bending and weighting, of course.

 

But I don't think he was. Photos should prove it one way or another. I am in agreement with you on one thing. SQ Tours, whether they came out of a store or the nike Tour Van, should look identical. I am thinking that other than bending and weighting, they ARE identical. I just don't think that is what Chad was playing when he won.

[abewley]

sorry derek.. but during the tourneys he plays and sq max tour.. not a 460 tour...

 

now he may also have a 460 tour that he didn't happen to put into play...

 

[abewley]

guys go back and look at the pics i posted of both tiger and cc..

 

both are sq max

 

oh and NIKEPROTO is right.. I didn't want to mention it but the face is diff. on the sq max and sq max tour.. :cheesy:

[abewley]

i can def. believe that... initially all the nike staffers were hitting 460 SQ tours...

 

then trev switch and from what i can at least 2 others ... Wie was still playing the 460 tour at the sony... Gore was still playing it.

 

i wonder if they didn't have any of the tour sq max's ready yet over xmas.

[golfernut78]

there isn't a seperate model that is "tour" because of no alignment marker or internal weighting or different loft or lie.

 

pros have been adding lead tape or glue or whatever to heads to weight them differently. if you had to submit a driver based on its weighting, there would be a r7 every possible weight setting (1,230 settings for the R7 425 TP). every pro would have to submit their driver and it be on the list.

 

how does the loft, lie angle or face angle make the driver? what makes that a "tour model" head? its still the same design, shape, materials. you can alter all that on a retail head provided you have the experience, proper tools, and some luck.

 

alignments??? no alignment mark means tour? i can go out and get my driver refinished without a alignment mark on it. does that make it a "tour" driver? no. that is a personal preference that the companies cater to there players. same head.

 

serial numbers? now i am sure that there are some tour only serial numbers, but no serial numbers being tour only. i disagree. i've got a nike forged ti 350 at home with no serial number. i bought it 65% off brand new at edwinn watts. something tells me it ain't tour only. matter of fact, it hit so me sky balls with it when i was learning to play that it doesn't have an alignment mark on it either. i guess it has to be a "tour" driver. no serial number and no alignment mark. maybe i can make up a story about the prolite shaft in it, thats its a tour only prototype.

 

every head that is out there is on the usga list. yes, maybe some of the lower lofts are only available to tour players, because the company knows that a hacker as myself is going to go and drop $400 on a 6.5* driver and my 105 mph swing speed isn't going to do anything with that head and then i am going to go out there and bash this company and there product because i selecte the wrong product. but the design and technology of the 6.5* and 10.5* are the exact same.

 

there are 5 sq models. no more, no less.

[jzatl04]

The writer simply meant the head wasn't the same shape as the SQ Tour, but rather the MAX. I wouldn't worry about it much.

[Ultimate]

The writer simply meant the head wasn't the same shape as the SQ Tour, but rather the MAX. I wouldn't worry about it much.

No way would I let that author off so easily. And that's not even the way he subsequently explained it, either. He basically offered the excuse that he only repeated info that a Nike rep gave him. The Nike rep should have known better.

The accurate way to have described it would have been to say that Tiger is playing "the SQ 460 Max Tour, a Tour-only prototype driver that is similar to the 460 Max."

Why would that be a better description? Just look at Nike's description of Tiger's golf ball. They now take care to issue descriptions of it as the Nike One Platinum TW, a prototype ball. Nike got hammered, quite rightly, when a year and a half ago they were advertising the retail Nike One ball as the one that Tiger used, when that wasn't true. They are now apparently making the same mistake. Acutally, they are being a little more crafty now. Descriptions, such as those on TGC's What's in the Bag webpage, call it something generic like a "SQ 460," without mentioning the specific model.

But however thin you slice the baloney here, the statement that Tiger is playing "the standard model" of anything is a lie.

[SteveG]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=101981

[Ultimate]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=101981

Steve there is indeed some good information offered in that thread you linked to. But I would point out a few corrections, including some to your own contribution to that linked thread.

 

1. The thread you have linked got going around the time that Tiger first appeared with the first SQ on tour, at least the first "big" SQ that any of us had ever seen, and the sole clearly did not look like the SQ Tour, which many of us thought would be the model that Tiger would gravitate to. That club's sole looked for all the world like the SQ Max. So it cause an awful lot of surprise and confusion, that we now better understand.

 

Also, when Tiger made the debut of that SQ, the USGA Confroming List was not the "law of the land." Listing did not become mandatory until 1/1/06. It is quite possible, even likely I might say, that what Tiger had in that first appearance was a clubhead like the SQ Max Tour that he now has; it just hadn't been put on the USGA list at that time. (Now, nobody can play on tour with a clubhead that hasn't been listed, although the equipment companies can apparently reserve the right to withhold listing some approved heads that are experimental.)

 

I think it is now beyond any reasonable dispute that what Tiger is using currently, and what he was probably testing in December 05, was the "SQ 460 (Max Tour)," a distinct driver clubhead apart from either the retail 460 Max or the retail 460 Tour, and that (Tiger's) clubhead is now duly and properly listed on the USGA webiste.

 

2. In that other thread, you were tossing out some information about Taylor Made that I think is wrong. You mentioned something like eight different models of the R5 TP and that there were "Tour" and "TP" models listed. I think that if you go back through the list carefully, you will see that while TM is very clumsy about designating certain heads "Tour" versus "TP," and there is confusion when they have a single 9.0 Left-handed head as well as a 9.5 Left-handed head both listed as "Tour" or "TP" clubs, when you digest all of it, there is only one -- ONE -- head that is the right-handed, multi-loft "R5 Tour," and no other listing for any "R5 TP." What I think is that the listing of the "R5 Tour" is supposed to tbe the "R5 Tour Preferred," giving apparently solid credence to what Taylor Made has been saying for a couple of years -- that their TP heads are the same, whether sold at retail or issued out of the tour van.

 

Steve you seem to be convinced of the validity and the genuine nature of the USGA Conforming Driver List, so I am hopeful that after reviewing all of this carefully you'll agree with me.

[The Boom Bapp]

I will throw some pic's out there for you guys to compare to any photo's you might find on Chad's and TW's Sqautch's. There are as you guys already know "differences" in both.

 

Tour 460:

]

 

Retail 460 MAX:

[doublenuts]

Does this help?

 

Found this at another place via another place via... Seems to be the topic of the month/week.

 

 

 

 

I pressed Nike a little more

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

Response (Jarod) - 01/26/2006 02:33 PM

Dear Ken,

 

Unfortunately, we cannot confirm what clubs Tiger Woods uses in competition. This is proprietary technology. I can tell you, however, that there is not a consumer retail version of the SasQuatch 460 Tour Max and, furthermore, that one will never be released.

 

Again, we appreciate the time you've taken to contact us.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jarod

Nike Golf

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

OMG Tour issued clubs exist

 

----------------------------------------------

Per Nike online golf help.

 

Christian: Hi, my name is Christian. How may I help you?

ken: what is a sq max tour ? http://www.usga.org/equipment/images/conf_clubs/20060021.JPG

Christian: Let me take a look.

ken: thanks I know Tiger said he is using a SQ Max Tour ?

Christian: Tiger is more than likely using the SQ Tour 460.

ken: he said in a interview its a Max tour and from the pics its not the Sq tour

ken: http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/C...12513_lower.jpg

Christian: Please remember that the product that Tiger plays with will be made specifically for him.

ken: and the usga website shows you have a Sq Max Tour also

Christian: The only SQ models that we offer, are the SQ 460 and SQ Tour 460. I only have information on retail products. I do NOT have any information on Tour specific products.

ken: but it has to be on the usga conforming list, so his is not a retail one ?

Christian: The clubs that we offer conform to USGA rules. We do NOT offer a 7.5* SQ Tour 460 at retail.

ken: Chad Campbell uses a 7.5 per golfweek magazine, so tiger has a special driver made for him ?

Christian: The guys on Tour will have special clubs that conform to USGA rules and will not be available for purchase.

ken: OK, thats what I was wondering, so will tigers Sq Max Tour ever come to retail ?

Christian: More than likely not.

[jeffreyjenkins]

nice work

[Ultimate]

I hope we don't beat up on these company reps so much that the companies lobby to take down the USGA list. We're getting a lot of good information from that list; more authoritative info than we've ever gotten before.

The guys quoted above seemed to me to be pretty polite and respectfully insistent with the Nike phone reps. In the end, the reps gave out reasonably fair and honest info. Nothing to get mad about.

 

Tell you what, Nike; you wanna sell drivers at a thousand dollars a pop? Sell a special-order SQ 460 Max Tour, just like the tour guys get.

[The Boom Bapp]

I found some pictures on Tigers website that show him swinging a SQ.

 

Click these links and you can make your own assumption whether it is "Tour" head or not.

IMO it is not a "Tour" head.

 

TW's SQ @ Buick

 

Zoom view of SQ from same pic @ Buick

[Ultimate]

I found some pictures on Tigers website that show him swinging a SQ.

 

Click these links and you can make your own assumption whether it is "Tour" head or not.

IMO it is not a "Tour" head.

 

TW's SQ @ Buick

 

Zoom view of SQ from same pic @ Buick

460 Max -- No.

460 Tour -- No.

460 Max Tour -- Yes.

[doublenuts]

It's definitely a "WORKS" head.

 

Tell tale-Look at the sole plate where it ends. The plate is shaped differently compared to the retail versions.

It has no angle and it runs deeper.

[The Boom Bapp]

Tell you what, Nike; you wanna sell drivers at a thousand dollars a pop? Sell a special-order SQ 460 Max Tour, just like the tour guys get.

 

You tell'm brudda!

When are you going to show the devoted fan some "LOVE"...Huh???

 

Why Skyjack the prices for those of us who have to "BUY" non "tour" equipment. I mean you would never hear a peep from anybody if actual "TOUR" gear was made accessable to the public as a legitimate choice.

Whay can't this be realistic?

 

We all have a really hard time believing any driver should cost more than $300 bills. If you are not going to give us "TOUR" issue, can't you give us a better Manufacterers Suggested Retail Price at least?? All we use the thing for is to smack a little white ball around a couple of acres of grass and off a few trees. What else can this club do that would require a $1000.00 price tag???

[The Boom Bapp]

I found some pictures on Tigers website that show him swinging a SQ.

 

Click these links and you can make your own assumption whether it is "Tour" head or not.

IMO it is not a "Tour" head.

 

TW's SQ @ Buick

 

Zoom view of SQ from same pic @ Buick

460 Max -- No.

460 Tour -- No.

460 Max Tour -- Yes.

 

I think I am missing something, wher is the "MAX" coming from, is it stamped on the head?