The Great Blade Discussion

[steve81]

Let's Have Fun with this !!!

I am a golfer who is serious about my game and and on the road to a lower handicap. I currently play to a 15 index. I demoed the Titleist 690.mb's and fell in love. Yes, I know, some of you are thinking why is this 15 looking at blades? Well here are some arguments on why I and anyone else who is looking to improve their game should atleast try blades.

1) Awesome feedback on shots hit flush, as well as feedback that lets me know when I mis hit the club.
2) Due to the smaller head size, wouldn't that only sharpen my skills at ball striking?
3) I know the what happened in my swing that resulted in the ball to react a certain way.
4) All the greats, Woods, Els, Nicklaus, Watson, Singh, all learned the game on forged blades. What current pro golfer today learned the game playing game improvement clubs?
5) No fancy technology to take the credit for an awesome shot (Please ignore the R7 in my signature, it's a back up)
6) They look so nice and shiny! (Had to throw that one in...I mean come on!!)


I could go on, but I want to hear some points to my argument here.

Thanks all!

[tartanjack]

Blades for a 15? It depends. But here's my personal observation: I believe the feedback you get from hitting a less forgiving club is a good thing. I believe you can learn to hit the sweetspot with proper feedback. On the other hand, Ping and other cavity back clubs have been popular for more than 30 years because of one thing. They work. In the end it's a personal decision. Do you want the pleasure of the great feel from a forged blade on perfect hits and to admire their looks in your bag or do you want to shoot lower scores? I prefer forged blades but I play with Callaway shovels because I shoot lower scores. Not to say that I won't buy another set of forged clubs again this year because my ego can't stand playing with shovels.

[Huskypride28]

Ahh yes the blades vs. cavity backs topic. The never ending debate and yet I get sucked in once again. So I will go for a different approach this time. I say play whatever he11 you want to play. If you're a 15 and want to play blades, Go For It! Don't let some hack tell you you're not good enough for them. There was once a time when all irons were blades and that's all you had to play no matter your skill. I have a vintage set on display and trust me, todays blades are Nike Slingshots compared to those things.

[onemomentintime]

you might find this article interesting.....

http://www.departures.com/tr/tr_0998_mb1irons.html

[CHRISS1928]

I feel that blades should be played if you are willing to work at it. Yes blades look good and feel like buttah when drilled sweetly BUT if you're having a bad day yourself and people around you may begin to second guess your decision. I went through this this golf season as I had some really good rounds and I had some terrible rounds and some awful iron shots. Ultimately I switched to cavity back as its much easier. You should try and find either a forgiving blade (the macgregor Blades are pretty forgiving IMO) or get a combo set or a players cavity were the look at address is that of a blade. You need to get what appeals to your eye and its different for everyone. I tried slingshots and I dont care how forgiving and unless they pin-point perfect everytime theres no way in hell I could play those.

 

Chris

[cjdrcc]

I wouldn't worry, I did it about 2 years ago and it turned out great. I was about a 10 and I was Playing the rac os. Great Iron but looked bad and felt hollow. I got the usual what are you doing from my golf partners, but I did it and hit the ball way better. They also improve your woods/Wedges too, you make better contact and plus if you are making centerface contact your swing is probably pretty good so I'd say try alot and see if you like them. WARNING- Don't sell your clubs until you've played with the blades because if you do, you might end up trying to find a transition set or play really badly for a month.

[hacker17]

Hey man whatever works for you.

[joneser]

I have been a member of a number of golf related boards over the years....this is my first post on this great board but my answer stays the same. Ultimately its up to you but I think your giving up shots by playing blades. I finshed up last season at a 1.7 index and feel that I am a fairly good ball striker. In high school and college I played nothing but blades....Hogan PC and Hogan Medallian were my favorites. At the tail end of college I picked up a set of Ping eye2's and that pretty much spelled the end of blades. Because the real world tends to play havoc on your golf game I have had years that I really struggled. A couple of times over those years I pulled out the Hogan's and figured they would "help me concentrate" and "give me feedback". The feedback they gave me after a hole or two was....."ouch!" or "you should not be using me". Fast forward a few years and I had my game back to low single digits....time to trade the Ping I3' blades in on some real blades....MP33's.

 

I would agree completely that the new blades are light years better than my Hogan PC's and are way easier to hit but they just dont compare to the Mp30 or the 690.cb that I am currently playing. You pick up a players type forged cavity back and you get all the feedback you need to become a better player and you get some of the benefits of game improvement irons. There is no reason why you have to sacrafice that much yardage on any shot hit less than pure. You probably wont go out there and be 15 shots higher with the blades but they will cost you shots by costing you 5 yds here.....10 yds there....etc...etc. All you have to do is look at the tour and the number of players using cavity backs vs blades. Yes, blades are still popular on tour but I would bet that more tha 50% are some sort of cavity back iron. Go look in the bags at the NCAA tournaments.....very high concentration of cavity backs as well.

 

Don't kid yourself into thinking that cavity backs can't produce bad shots.....my 690.cb still requires a good swing....they just dont have to be pured every swing in order to get some results. In the end its up to you and there is not a correct answer. I would strongly suggest borrowing a set of blades and go play a few rounds. I think in the end you will see that you may hit them fairly well but over the course of the round your mistakes are maginified enough to make a difference in the end. Just do yourself a favor and be honest to yourself......I had my MP33's for a few months and finally realized that I should not be embarassed by admitting that they were hurting my game. I don't think I am the only 1-2 handicap in the world that feels blades are not a good fit.

 

This post is probably entirely too long for a first post but let me add that cavity backs were probably not officially (not exactly an equipment historian but I think the Ping Eye irons were the first real perimeter weighted cavity back) around when most of the greats were learning the game so they made due with what they had. I believe that Tiger had played Ping when he was younger and if you look at many of the games young talentented players, they have grown up with Ping or some other cavity back. Overall, my opinion is that todays forged cavity backs give you the best combination of game improvement and feedback to help you improve.

[bd8802]

I got back and forth on this. A few years ago I made the switch from Ping Zing2 irons to Hogan Apex+. I know they are not blades, but I think the reasons you mentioned for wanting to switch to blades are some of the same reasons I went to a "player's cavity backed" iron. I thought the Ping's let me get away with "lazy" swings. I felt that if I got something a little harder to hit, I would be forced to make much better and more consistant swings to get the same results.

 

That summer I was able to play and practice almost every day. I got my handicap down to a personal best of 1.2.

 

I look back that that summer and think my improvement was equal parts practice and club selection. I think the Apex+'s forced me into focusing on putting a proper swing on the ball, and the practice allowed me to get comfortable with a swing that was more consistant. I don't think one thing made the other thing happen.

 

If you want to play blades, I think you should play blades. I don't know if they will make you a better player, but if you have more fun playing harder to hit clubs and trying to perfect your swing for them then I think you should. There are only a handful of players good enough to make a living playing golf. The rest of us hacks are playing because we enjoy the game. Do whatever makes you have the most fun.

[gropper]

Well I tell ya i had the same issue about a year ago. loved the look of blades but as a 17 hcp at the time just wasn;t sure, Well i ended up getting mizuno mp-32, not true blades but pretty damn close and man have they made a diffrence in how i hot the ball, oh yeah and hcp too down to a 10.4 after alot of work and time, plus i finally was able to learn how to work the ball both ways something i had no sucess at with cavity backs.

 

So i also had the people who looked at my new clubs and went man those look great but are you nuts!

 

Well not saying that anymore

 

Good luck

 

Gropper

[Simp]

Well, I started the game playing cavity backs, got better and went to a set of old Bullet .444 blades and then progressed to a set of Hogan Apex's and then to a set of TaylorMade 300 Forged irons. It got to a point that I wasn't playing as much as I'd like to and the bad shots kept getting worse, all the while keeping my handicap below 3. I now play a set of Ping Blades with graphite shafts and I really can't see myself playing anything else. After the switch, my "bad" shots weren't all that bad anymore. I've thought about getting another set of blades just to mix things up every so often, but if it comes time to play for keeps, I'll drop them faster than a hot rock and pick up the Pings. I'm not sure why I would want to play with something that's harder to hit. Simp

[tylerbrowder8-4]

yeah i wish i could have put these facts below in the guys i work with faces when they ask me why i want blades thinking i cant hit them

 

ive been off in on with blades because some shots cost you big time but with a 4 or below handi you should get up and down any way

 

 

this is why i play blades couldnt have said it any better like he knows my specs and what i feel about blades im a feel player like i hit shots down the fairway but i miss hit it and get all pissed bacause it feels terrable or you could call that being a perfectionest

 

• You are a scratch to 15-handicap player who consistently makes solid contact with the club's sweet spot on both long and short irons and you like to shape shots.

• You generate enough headspeed to produce high-trajectory ball flight, and you put enough backspin on the ball to make it hold the green.

• You prefer the clean lines and smaller traditional head of a classic blade and find a narrower sole much easier to play from the rough or a tight lie.

• You are a "feel" player: You love the sensation of a perfectly struck ball and desire greater "touch" on shots around the green.

• You consider club feedback essential to improving your swing.

[hoosiervolunteer]

I'm with the group that says play whatever you want. My only advice is to err on the side of more forgiving. With you being a 15, I don't think that buying new blades will drop your score very much. Course management and dedicated practice from 100 yards and in drop the handicap, not new clubs. Get rid of the penalty strokes and make sure you can get up and down most of the time. Wear out the puttting green from 4 to 10 feet. That will drop the handicap.

 

Play whatever irons you want to. Don't believe that you have to play this or that. When I was a teenager, I bought a set of Taylor Made tour preferred blades from the pro at my home course. Those clubs really let me feel both good and bad hits. They also penalized the bad shots. I play Mizuno MX 23 now and they have all the forgiveness I need and give me plenty of feel too. Play what you want and remember that a great short game drops the handicap.

[joneser]

tylerbrowder8-4 makes a good point.....15 handicaps can be attained in a number of different ways. You may be a good ball striker and the worlds worst putter or vice versa. For the sake of the discussion I assumed you were like most 15 handicappers and could use a little improvement in each area of the game. There are many good points being made and in the end it is up to you....just be honest with yourself and don't make a decision on what you think looks good in the bag.

[freddiec]

Jonser, i agree with just about everything you said there. well put. 15 capper has no biz playing blades, there is just no benefit at all, except for the 10 percent of the time when you pure it.

[bogeymachine]

I agree with all suggestions/advice of the above posts. But here are my own 2cents. Play whatever YOU feel like. Mental factor is big. Liking the looks of your irons is a good place to start, and 15 is good enough for today's blade. Forget what others around you think. If it hurts your game, you'll realize it in time how exactly it hurts your game (ie. distance loss, dispersion problem, long irons, etc.). And then you can choose to work at it, or give it in.

 

Play blades so you can apprecaite how cbs can help you..... play cbs so you'll remember how sweet blades feel! Though, as you know, some of the cbs these days are pretty darn sweet. As for my game, and IMHGO, only 3-5 irons are where I feel substantial help from cb vs blade. For me, the right shafts are as important, if not more.

 

My irons history for the past 15 years or so:

Hogan blades (very old)

845s

A period of messing around with lots of different sets

MP33

Nike PC

 

You can see I'm stuck in between the two worlds now. PC short irons are sweet enough, and I'm hitting 3 and 4 irons like I never did before!!!! COMBO is THE WORD for the millennium..... :D

 

cheers,

[pegleg]

As best as I can figure, there can only be two reason anyone tells you NOT to play blades - if that's what YOU want to do. 1 - they're feeling wimpy because YOU'RE playing the cool clubs they don't trust themselves to hit well or 2 - they think that what works for them works for everyone else in the world as well.

 

It's funny, I can't say I ever see blade players telling 'game improvement' playes they should be using blades, but so many game improvement players tell blade players they shouldn't be playing blades...

 

I have played blades on and off since I was a 17 hdcp. My other irons are 'player's cavity' (690•CB) or combo (735•CM). My scores are pretty much the same with 680s, 670s as they are with cavities. My WORST rounds last year were with X-Tours and Pings. They work for Mickelson and Calcavecchia, but not for me.

 

Playing blades (MP33s, 690MB, 680, 670, Apex) and 690•CBs, I've gotten down to an 8. Personally, I enjoy the workability, trajectory control, feel, control with punch shots and chipping, and YES, how they LOOK in the bag. I don't like offset, I have never (even my first year playing) needed help getting the ball higher.

 

The first five years I played, I listened to the advice of magazines, television and golf shop employees, and bought Callaways and other 'game improvement' clubs. I wasted a lot of time and money (and strokes) listening to this advice. And, yes, todays blades are easier to hit than those from the 60s. It's obvious that I'm not alone in this, as almost every golf manufacturer offers blades today, something which wasn't true 10 years ago...

 

Play what you want, and when someone tells you otherwise, ask them why it's any of their business what you choose to play golf with. :D

[crucible]

I play Mizuno MP 14s now after Mizuno MP23s, basically because of the look of the smaller head which I like in a blade and really don"t get in cb's. Actually find the MP 14s to be fairly forgiving and haven"t found anything to match the feel of a well struck shot. I feel that I've worked pretty hard on my swing over the years and want more than just good results. I'm not going back to persimmon in my driver but the feel of a well hit drive just can't be duplicated in today's driver technology. Playing forged blades with the added sound or feel of a good hit just makes the day better.

[villa]

I'd like to add my opinion on this because it seems pretty back and forth.

 

I've been playing for about 15 years now and currently play off +3. I've used blades/players cavity backs since I started and along with lessons I believe that the feedback I received helped me reach the level i'm at now. If you're willing to work at it and you want to become a scratch golfer or better then go for it. If you want to play once a week at the most and just want to enjoy your occasional round of golf then go for a cavity back iron.

 

By the way, have you made a decision yet or not?

[workindogz]

For what it is worth, my opinion is play what you want to. Most of us here aspire to be single digit and I would suppose that the main reason that a lot aren't is not the arrow, its the indian. I, for one, attribute my inability to get to scratch as a time issue, not an equipment issue. If you can't practice (unless of course, you are one of the rare God gifted folks who can just flat out play without much practice), you won't get better. Probably better said, if you can't practice properly and consistently, you can't get better. Yeah, butter knives are probably more difficult to hit than shovels. But, in the end, a 15 will stay a 15 if he don't practice or take lessons and commit to gettng better. A 15 WILL absolutely, positively get better, probably down to a high single digit, if he puts in the range time and studies his swing and knows how to improve. I went from a shovel swinging 12 to a MP32 swinging 7 pretty quickly. Why, well because of daylight savings time for one. Getting my Word not allowed out on the course nightly (I am lucky enough to live on a course) for 5 or 6 holes, and spending quality range time weekly, along with some tune up lessons. It had nothing to do with my sticks, per se. But, admittedly, I did get a lot of satisfaction seeking and hitting pins with the 32's despite what my friends said about how crazy I was.

 

The amazing thing is that no matter what you are swinging, once you start swinging good and get confidence in yourself and your clubs enough to execute what you practice, it all falls into place. The last thing that really helped me was gringing it out on the practice and chipping green. That was probably worth 2 or 3 index points right there. In short, ther is no magic pill for getting better other than work. And if you commit to work, you can swing whatever you like, that feels good TO YOU and you are confident with.

 

I say if you are not willing to commit to working on your game, save your money and stick with what you got. But, if you want to commit to try to master this beast of a game, get a fresh start and pick something new that looks and feels good to you and best of luck. Sometimes some new sticks add a great spark. Especially if your friends think you are crazy.

[dorfblee]

I guess I'll ask, "How are you a 15 'capper?" Is your putting very poor? Do you miss a lot of greens from 50yds in? 100yds in? 150yds in? Are you terrible off the tee?

 

If you are missing a lot of greens from 150yds in- it falls to whatever theory/opinion you agree with. One is blades will force you to improve you ball striking and force you to concentrate more. The other is that the more forgiving iron will save you more often than not on 'off' days- the trade off on sloppy mechanics and foregiveness varies (super game improvements like BBertha's to players cb's like TM 300's or Mizuno MP 30's).

 

If you feel your iron game is solid, go ahead take the plunge. If you feel your iron game will improve is you do, go ahead take the plunge. Bottom line- play whatever you want. And there will always be someone else wanting to take the plunge and buy those mb's from you!

[Putt4doh]

I am a golfer who is serious about my game and and on the road to a lower handicap. I currently play to a 15 index. I demoed the Titleist 690.mb's and fell in love. Yes, I know, some of you are thinking why is this 15 looking at blades? Well here are some arguments on why I and anyone else who is looking to improve their game should atleast try blades.

 

1) Awesome feedback on shots hit flush, as well as feedback that lets me know when I mis hit the club.

2) Due to the smaller head size, wouldn't that only sharpen my skills at ball striking?

3) I know the what happened in my swing that resulted in the ball to react a certain way.

4) All the greats, Woods, Els, Nicklaus, Watson, Singh, all learned the game on forged blades. What current pro golfer today learned the game playing game improvement clubs?

5) No fancy technology to take the credit for an awesome shot (Please ignore the R7 in my signature, it's a back up)

6) They look so nice and shiny! (Had to throw that one in...I mean come on!!)

 

 

I could go on, but I want to hear some points to my argument here.

 

Thanks all!

 

 

I agree with all of that....but only if you don't mind that Handicap going up before it goes down. :D

[mlamar]

IMO ...

 

I started playing golf (late bloomer) 5 years ago and purchased a set of used Top Flight T2000 Graphite

clubs. I spent 1 full year on the range (never a round) before I actually played a round of golf. My first

outing, I shot a 102 at Lake Spivey Golf Club - Stockbridge, GA. I spent the next year and half playing

the Top Flight before trading them in for some Titleist DCI 962. What an improvement - Overall Game

Improved significantly. I spent the next 2 1/2 years with the DCI's before I bought a set of Titleist

690MB's .... And boy, what an improvement ... It took a while to hit the 690's because the head was

smaller and they are not as forgiving as the DCI ... But why do we play golf ... SATISFACTION ...

 

I must say, when I hit solid shots with the 690's, that's why I play this game ... FUN-SWEET-PURE and

knowing that I have another solid swing coming ...

 

It has also, improved my concentration and mechanics to where I'm looking for lower scores. My overall

game has improved to where I'm able to recognized certain types of shots fits certain types of situations.

I'm able to work the ball better when the situation dictates it.

 

Finally, the best place to get comfortable with the blades are on the range ... Practice and start learning

and understanding what that club can do for you ...

[titleistpro2]

everyone should play blades. Like Greg Norman said, the reason you play golf is to hit the sweet spot (small) and know the shot has come off before you even see the ballflight. You can't do that with cast or cavity clubs. Titleist 690's in my bag. Love the click of the Titleist vs. the nothing of the Mizuno's at impact.

[Nille]

I normally play Big Berthas, but ~2 weeks ago, I bought a 6 iron Nike Blade. I did not have any problems with them in terms of forgiveness, I actually had more success with them, probably because the stiffer shaft fit me better.

 

I am thinking of buying a set of blades aswell. Now I am a 16 hdcp. but I want to buy blades when I have improved my hdcp to below 10 ( I just don't want to spend the money now :D )

 

I think you should try a set of blades on the course, and if u have no problems with them, purchase a set.

[Ed Rooney]

I always love this topic because I get to detail my CB to blades experience.

 

I started playing serious golf in 2001. Before that I had been out on a course a few times, but had never broken 110 even when giving myself a few mulligans. As a kid I had an old set of spalding blades and used to knock acorns and stuff around my yard. My friends and I would take them out into a field and hit old golf balls, but that was the extent of our golf.

 

So one day in 2001, I was playing a corporate scramble with my set of wal-mart specials. On one shot I didn't bring a pitching wedge, so my boss loaned me his forged Wilson. I knocked the ball close and couldn't believe the feel. 2 days later I bought a set of TA3's. I played them for a few months, then I ho's them and got TA5's, Supersteels, then X-14's. Soon after, I got into a horrible slump. I could barely make contact with the ball, was swinging outside in, hitting fat, etc. I went to the range one day at lunch and forgot my sticks. I grabbed a Hogan Apex from the demo bon and hit a bucket. Again, I couldn't believe the feedback, and my swing problems melted away as I really concentrated on my contact. By that time I had broken 100, and squeeked out an 89 that was probably really a 94 due to my poor comprehension of the rules.

 

A few days later I bought both a set of TA3's and a set of MP-33's. I played the TA3's for a month or two before I even attempted to practice with the 33's. Again I was mired in the low to mid 90's. In September of 2002 I bagged the 33's and sold the TA3's. Within 2 months I had really broken 90 and then started shooting in the low 80's. I even produced a 79. A few months later I shot a 75, but it was winter and the rough was way low.

 

I've gone through a few slumps, tried CB's several more times, but I always end up coming back to the blades. I am an 8.9 index now, up from 8.3 last summer. Most of my problems come from errant drives. Friends of mine who are scratch or plus handicappers have told me that I have the short game and putting of a scratch player, the iron play of a low single-digit, and the driver of a 15. I am pretty much committed to my 690.mb's even though the Ho in me wants to try the 735.cm's. I hit the ball high, even with long irons, and I generate a lot of spin. For these reasons, plus real trial and error, I feel that my current blades are best for my game.

 

I feel if you can get the ball in the air, you don't hook or slice your irons, and you can practice or play several times a week, you can play a modern blade. It just comes down to confidence and personal preference. If I saw a 20 handicap with MP-33's, I wouldn't bat an eye. If he/she is committed to improving, no problem. I've been there. My index went from 20 to under 10 in my first few month with blades.

 

The long and short of it is that I would rather have the accuracy and feel of blades on the shots that I hit well rather than forgiveness on the shots that I hit poorly. Last month I played 3 rounds after 3.5 months of no practice or play. I was still able to shoot 80/81 and stick quite a few shots inside of 10 feet. If I mis-hit my 690's, I might be a little short of the green, but I am almost always on line. With the LT's, X14's or Pings that I have tried, I might be pin high, but I am wide right or left. Also, I don't spin the ball as much with those irons, so plenty of shots just roll off the back of the green.

[TheOrange2002]

1) Awesome feedback on shots hit flush, as well as feedback that lets me know when I mis hit the club.

 

I find this as a major misconception ... yes, you can tell that you mishit the balll (you don't miss hit the club, the ball is the object) but what exactly is the feedback? As a 15, I highly doubt that you have the knowledge of the golf swing to interpert the feedback into swing changes to improve yourself. Remeber, the best amateurs and professionals, guys who hit hundreds of balls every day, need someone to tell them what changes to make based on the player communicating the feedback from the clubs.

 

2) Due to the smaller head size, wouldn't that only sharpen my skills at ball striking?

 

What sharpens your skills is being able to create a repeatable golf swing. The modern driver has a huge face while your pitching wedge is much smaller. I bet you feel you hit your pitching wedge solid more times than your driver. Again, the smaller head, which we all assume means smaller sweatspot, will give you instant feedback that you have miss-hit the ball.

[MikeG]

It comes down to why you play. I've been playing for about 10-12 years, and I've noticed that several aspects of the the game motivate people differently. Some guys play for the long ball...forget about everything else. Other guys live for those one or two pured iron shots that may happen in a round. Other guys don't give a cr@p about how they hit the ball on a given day...it's only the scorecard that matters. If those 690s are going to help you enjoy the game more, go for it.

 

Back at my old course, we had some very good players go with the MP-33s and MP-30s when they came out. Sure enough, a lot of the higher handicaps followed their lead, so we had a bunch of high-single digit guys with MP-33s and high-teens playing the 30s. Since I played with a lot of them in some low-stakes money games, I encouraged them as much as I could to go with the "players" irons. I missed my shots a lot better with my TM 320 shovels and was usually on the receiving end when it came time to pay up. Just a different perspective.

 

But before you commit, don't fool yourself on the feedback thing. If you've got good hands, a lot of the better cavity backs will give you all the feedback you need.

[mr_divots]

This GolfWRX.com site is great because there are so many pictures of professional's bags for us to take a look through. If you haven't taken a peek in the PGA WITB folder lately, I think now would be a good time to do so. I was really surprised at how many of the world's best players are using cavity backs. Everything from Ping Eye2's to Rac OS's. I thought I had made a pretty conservative choice in buying my Bridgestone J33 combos being I'm a 6 handicap and irons are a strong part of my game. But even I am wondering if I am silly to not be playing a full set of cavities. I played MP-32's last year, and as another poster pointed out, many of the styles that are referred to as "blades" really aren't that "blade-like."

Anyway, more and more pros seem to be using something with more forgiveness. The golf balls are designed to be less workable now anyway, so this notion of working every shot seems rather odd to me. If you have the funds to get some blades, do it. Get it out of your system. The 690.mb's were tough to hit in my opinion.

 

Didn't you just get some Titleist 704.cb's anyway?? Seems to me that was like less than a week ago!!

[Ed Rooney]

All I know is that I suck worse with cavity back irons. It's been proven.

 

Once you get away from message-board-land nobody cares what's in your bag anyway, unless they are stealing it.