question for sevam1

[greenail]

does this video represent a good go at what your right foot feels

sevam1, wondering if you could take a look at this youtube vid and let me know if this is what you describe with the right foot screw.

[sevam1]

sevam1, wondering if you could take a look at this youtube vid and let me know if this is what you describe with the right foot screw.

 

 

Nope!

 

I really like what Shawn Clement has to say about a ton of things, but what he is demonstrating in this video is not really what I am talking about. With what he is demonstrating the right hip moves to the rear and simultaneously to the target on the backswing.

 

In contrast, with respect to the torquing pressure that I advocate setting up in the right foot, the tension in the right leg from this presure is to serve like a barrier to moving too far laterally. This in turn should give you a little extra freedom to move more aggressively on the backswing. In summary, it sets up and governs the permissible and managable limit to the swing of the hips. How this differs from what Shawn is demonstrating is that the right hip moves to the right and to the rear befor it moves targetward. This is the hip action that I am trying to introduce into peoples actions.

 

I am not saying that Shawn is wrong about anything here but rather that he is not talking about what I am talking about. What Shawn is demostrating sends the right hip to the rear and towards the target early. In what I am putting forward there is more freedom to move laterally with the hips away from the target. Basically with the clockwise pressure in the right leg I am just setting up a governor so that the hips can both swing and turn on the way back and on the way through without a worry of moving too far "off of the ball" or otherwise to a position from which you cannot recover in transition.

 

The hips don't simply turn to the rear. They also swing away from and towards the target. In my opinion there is limited power if the hips do not swing.

 

The swing of the hips reduces the effort needed to create speed at the bottom and this is why I advocate this type of leg action. The less effort required to create the necessary speed, the more control you have over the direction of the necessary speed and the angle of the blade at the moment of truth. I am interested in effort less power, not just because it is easier to hit it far, but also to hit it accurately a "specific prescribed distance" which is the goal of almost every swing that you make with the exception of perhaps the driver and even with the driver you only sometimes have to try to hit it as far as you can in order to advance your cause on the golf course.

 

With the pretorque I am presetting a feeling, a barrier, a governor and a tension that should if maintained give guidance to a large degree to the overall action of the swing.

 

In a nutshell that is the goal of what I have put forward.

 

Sevam1

[eightiron]

sevam1, wondering if you could take a look at this youtube vid and let me know if this is what you describe with the right foot screw.

 

 

Nope!

 

I really like what Shawn Clement has to say about a ton of things, but what he is demonstrating in this video is not really what I am talking about. With what he is demonstrating the right hip moves to the rear and simultaneously to the target on the backswing.

 

In contrast, with respect to the torquing pressure that I advocate setting up in the right foot, the tension in the right leg from this presure is to serve like a barrier to moving too far laterally. This in turn should give you a little extra freedom to move more aggressively on the backswing. In summary, it sets up and governs the permissible and managable limit to the swing of the hips. How this differs from what Shawn is demonstrating is that the right hip moves to the right and to the rear befor it moves targetward. This is the hip action that I am trying to introduce into peoples actions.

 

I am not saying that Shawn is wrong about anything here but rather that he is not talking about what I am talking about. What Shawn is demostrating sends the right hip to the rear and towards the target early. In what I am putting forward there is more freedom to move laterally with the hips away from the target. Basically with the clockwise pressure in the right leg I am just setting up a governor so that the hips can both swing and turn on the way back and on the way through without a worry of moving too far "off of the ball" or otherwise to a position from which you cannot recover in transition.

 

The hips don't simply turn to the rear. They also swing away from and towards the target. In my opinion there is limited power if the hips do not swing.

 

The swing of the hips reduces the effort needed to create speed at the bottom and this is why I advocate this type of leg action. The less effort required to create the necessary speed, the more control you have over the direction of the necessary speed and the angle of the blade at the moment of truth. I am interested in effort less power, not just because it is easier to hit it far, but also to hit it accurately a "specific prescribed distance" which is the goal of almost every swing that you make with the exception of perhaps the driver and even with the driver you only sometimes have to try to hit it as far as you can in order to advance your cause on the golf course.

 

With the pretorque I am presetting a feeling, a barrier, a governor and a tension that should if maintained give guidance to a large degree to the overall action of the swing.

 

In a nutshell that is the goal of what I have put forward.

 

Sevam1

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4WP50ovr8

 

No lateral swinging of the hips on the backswing going on here

[Kerry_Bunker]

sevam1, wondering if you could take a look at this youtube vid and let me know if this is what you describe with the right foot screw.

 

 

Nope!

 

I really like what Shawn Clement has to say about a ton of things, but what he is demonstrating in this video is not really what I am talking about. With what he is demonstrating the right hip moves to the rear and simultaneously to the target on the backswing.

 

In contrast, with respect to the torquing pressure that I advocate setting up in the right foot, the tension in the right leg from this presure is to serve like a barrier to moving too far laterally. This in turn should give you a little extra freedom to move more aggressively on the backswing. In summary, it sets up and governs the permissible and managable limit to the swing of the hips. How this differs from what Shawn is demonstrating is that the right hip moves to the right and to the rear befor it moves targetward. This is the hip action that I am trying to introduce into peoples actions.

 

I am not saying that Shawn is wrong about anything here but rather that he is not talking about what I am talking about. What Shawn is demostrating sends the right hip to the rear and towards the target early. In what I am putting forward there is more freedom to move laterally with the hips away from the target. Basically with the clockwise pressure in the right leg I am just setting up a governor so that the hips can both swing and turn on the way back and on the way through without a worry of moving too far "off of the ball" or otherwise to a position from which you cannot recover in transition.

 

The hips don't simply turn to the rear. They also swing away from and towards the target. In my opinion there is limited power if the hips do not swing.

 

The swing of the hips reduces the effort needed to create speed at the bottom and this is why I advocate this type of leg action. The less effort required to create the necessary speed, the more control you have over the direction of the necessary speed and the angle of the blade at the moment of truth. I am interested in effort less power, not just because it is easier to hit it far, but also to hit it accurately a "specific prescribed distance" which is the goal of almost every swing that you make with the exception of perhaps the driver and even with the driver you only sometimes have to try to hit it as far as you can in order to advance your cause on the golf course.

 

With the pretorque I am presetting a feeling, a barrier, a governor and a tension that should if maintained give guidance to a large degree to the overall action of the swing.

 

In a nutshell that is the goal of what I have put forward.

 

Sevam1

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4WP50ovr8

 

No lateral swinging of the hips on the backswing going on here

 

 

 

Agreed, if anything they move forward, that is, towards the target just before the completion of the backswing.

[magnum184]

The hips don't simply turn to the rear. They also swing away from and towards the target. In my opinion there is limited power if the hips do not swing.

 

 

What happens when you swing your hips away and can't recover, let's say because of adrenaline, what happens then? Change of arc? I could see some heavy shots under the gun. Do you ever get that? I used to move around a little.

 

Where is the extra power coming from with swinging the hips both ways?

[sevam1]

eitght,

 

You are correct, that there is no big swing on the backswing shown here, but look at how far back he has already set the hips at address. There is nowhere to go but back to the target and you can see how far they have to travel laterally on the downswing. That green box tells the story there.

 

Now, the question was whether Shawn Clement was illustrating what I am talking about and I am just pointing out that he is not because the hips never get far enough away from the target in what he is illustrating.

 

You can set the hips well back like Hogan has done at address or you can move them back during the first part of the swing.

 

Hogans setup here may be more efficient, but it is tough to teach because especially when it is so far from the reverse K type of orientation at setup that most shoulder plane players use.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

The hips don't simply turn to the rear. They also swing away from and towards the target. In my opinion there is limited power if the hips do not swing.

 

 

What happens when you swing your hips away and can't recover, let's say because of adrenaline, what happens then? Change of arc? I could see some heavy shots under the gun. Do you ever get that? I used to move around a little.

 

Where is the extra power coming from with swinging the hips both ways?

 

 

magnum,

 

I've never really had the "can't recover from here" problem on the backswing because of that pressure that I maintain in the right leg down through the ball of the foot. That's the governor for me. It keeps me inside and establishes the permissable range of motion. Adrenalin hurt me in other ways like airmailing greens and that sort of thing, but chunky shots were not the mitakes I would typically make when I got excited. That is the sort of mistake I would make if I got loose or just complacent with the lower body.

 

With the lower body, it is the targetward swing of the hips that leads and creates the easy speed/power, but like the saying "What goes up must come down" in a similar way the hips have to get to the right befor you can send them left. You can set them right at address or send them right on the backswing, but if you don't get them there before you send them back left you are saying goodbye to the easy speed.

 

Sevam1

[eightiron]

eitght,

 

You are correct, that there is no big swing on the backswing shown here, but look at how far back he has already set the hips at address. There is nowhere to go but back to the target and you can see how far they have to travel laterally on the downswing. That green box tells the story there.

 

Now, the question was whether Shawn Clement was illustrating what I am talking about and I am just pointing out that he is not because the hips never get far enough away from the target in what he is illustrating.

 

You can set the hips well back like Hogan has done at address or you can move them back during the first part of the swing.

 

Hogans setup here may be more efficient, but it is tough to teach because especially when it is so far from the reverse K type of orientation at setup that most shoulder plane players use.

 

Sevam1

 

Hogan's hip position suits his mid body hand position... I don't see any exaggerated hips back at address nor any lateral sway going back...He just looks normal to me...Poles apart from a swing of the hips swaying pivot

[greenail]

I have found that you can do the "butt" drill with the same result but different focus. This is what has been working for me per the butt rag drill.

 

1. normal shoulder turn for backswing.

2. turn right foot clockwise, keeping right hip position which moves left hip around toward target.

3. fire shoulder through.

 

Now I was working on this and went to my pro for some validation, and he had a couple interesting points. He said for the long irons and driver don't try to do any wrist **** let them set on their own, which helped me a ton. He also said to be very aware of not shifting laterally right in my back swing. We had a scramble that night and I was really striking the ball well. The next day I went out for 9 holes in the morning and lost the feel a bit, so I went to the range and proceeded to hit about 30 shanks. It was very frustrating, however after thinking about it realized I was sliding to my right. The best cure for this right slide was to pre-tension my right knee by turning it in (supinating?) and putting clockwise pressure before starting my backswing. I played yesterday and hit 11 GIR, only one bad drive under tournament pressure. Swing felt awsome, putter was not so great. Seems to be a combination of what sevam1 was talking about and Shawn's drill.

[sevam1]

eightiron,

 

I think that there is a difference between swinging hips and a swaying pivot. The hips move underneath the golfer. If you displace the top of the spine then I think that it is fair to talk about a sway.

 

I see Hogan very differently than you do. I see a set up already solidly right leaving just a simultaneous turn of the shoulders and swing of the clubhead and then a shift of the center (the navel or the hips however you want to think about it) to the target to lead the downswing.

 

Sevam1

[sevam1]

I have found that you can do the "butt" drill with the same result but different focus. This is what has been working for me per the butt rag drill.

 

1. normal shoulder turn for backswing.

2. turn right foot clockwise, keeping right hip position which moves left hip around toward target.

3. fire shoulder through.

 

Now I was working on this and went to my pro for some validation, and he had a couple interesting points. He said for the long irons and driver don't try to do any wrist **** let them set on their own, which helped me a ton. He also said to be very aware of not shifting laterally right in my back swing. We had a scramble that night and I was really striking the ball well. The next day I went out for 9 holes in the morning and lost the feel a bit, so I went to the range and proceeded to hit about 30 shanks. It was very frustrating, however after thinking about it realized I was sliding to my right. The best cure for this right slide was to pre-tension my right knee by turning it in (supinating?) and putting clockwise pressure before starting my backswing. I played yesterday and hit 11 GIR, only one bad drive under tournament pressure. Swing felt awsome, putter was not so great. Seems to be a combination of what sevam1 was talking about and Shawn's drill.

 

What you are describing makes sense to me. When you firm the right side from the ground up you have set up a boundary for the backswing. The motion of the middle that Shawn Clement is illustrating is then easily executed.

 

Sevam1

[eightiron]

eightiron,

 

I think that there is a difference between swinging hips and a swaying pivot. The hips move underneath the golfer. If you displace the top of the spine then I think that it is fair to talk about a sway.

 

I see Hogan very differently than you do. I see a set up already solidly right leaving just a simultaneous turn of the shoulders and swing of the clubhead and then a shift of the center (the navel or the hips however you want to think about it) to the target to lead the downswing.

 

Sevam1

 

 

Well Hogan's head drops incrementally during the backswing increasing his left side bend to the top( so the top of his spine is displaced ...maybe not swaying ) and a rotated shoulder turn downstroke ( steeper ) So how can the pivot motion you state Hogan used match up and find a consistent low point .

 

 

This is about the pivot motion is it Not...So if the hips are moving/swaying laterally on the backswing as you Do and Advocate ..How does it Correlate to Hogan's Pivot..I am trying to do the Maths but it does Not Add up

 

Clement or whatever his name might not be entirely correct but is he advocating a swinging/swaying of the hips on the backswing?

[Squish]

A sway is a metronome action, weight swaying above a single fixed point base.

 

A swing is a pendulum action, weight swing under a fixed point.

With the golf swing, that fixed point top of the spine is supporetd by two legs.

The ankles, knees, and hips, provide the stability of the top of the spine.

This is why you must dig in one foot at a time.

[downtoscratch]

No disrespect to you Squish but I'll stick with "Wild" Bill Mehlhorn as he declared there's nothing

"fixed" about the human anatomy. A golf swing is a dynamic movement and fixed just doesn't fit

in that depiction......... to me, or the late Mr. Mehlhorn. DTS

[Squish]

No disrespect to you Squish but I'll stick with "Wild" Bill Mehlhorn as he declared there's nothing

"fixed" about the human anatomy. A golf swing is a dynamic movement and fixed just doesn't fit

in that depiction......... to me, or the late Mr. Mehlhorn. DTS

 

No disrespect taken.

So why fix the hips and spine?

 

 

Mehlhorn is correct, and that is why you must fix the feet to the ground,

using the inside muscles of the legs to move the torso as in Five Lessons.

 

I'm just stating Trees sway, and a Swing is a swing.

If you don't swing you hips your gonna move off the ball, the top of the spine will sway.

If one cannot understand something as simple that, they should go back to school

and learn physics.

 

Yes the swing is dynamic, it's a compound action of the ankles, knees and hips.

But that is not the primary force, and neither are the shoulders. The ankles, knees,

and hips control weight placement, and provide a stable post to swing around.

 

The clement video in my opinion is just plain wrong.

Good to hear from you sir.

There is always passion in our discussions.

[greenail]

Squish, I'm not sure what you've said to back up your claim that the clement video is wrong? You can do the clement "move" by putting clockwise pressure on your right foot after your backswing which turns your hips in the fashion he describes as long as you keep the left side firm (no lateral slide).

[Squish]

Squish, I'm not sure what you've said to back up your claim that the clement video is wrong? You can do the clement "move" by putting clockwise pressure on your right foot after your backswing which turns your hips in the fashion he describes as long as you keep the left side firm (no lateral slide).

 

Exactly

 

Question is how do you firm the left post?

If you stand flat footed it's not firm.

If you swing into the left instep then retro the left hip

your over the top.

 

Second,

The clockwise rotation of the right foot should take place in the slot, to bring the right hip out.

Not before.

 

In the clement video he is sliding his left shoulder over, and the left hip, outside his left foot,

a move Hogan did not and would not make.

Sevam1 does it by anchoring the right.