Steel iron shaft question

[FormerBigDaddy]

I've been gaming the P7TW's with S400 shafts for about 4 years now.  However, In the last year and a half I've done a lot of speed training and have been transitioning to X-Stiff shafts and I'm having a hard time deciding where to go in my irons.  The pro at my club thinks I should go project x 6.5's but I haven't really gotten on trackman to see numbers and you really can't just try the p7tw's with another shaft easily.  I know I swing my 7 iron at 90mph on average (about 172-175 yds) with my s400's and my driver around 112-113 on average a good day. I am also quite aggressive in transition on full shots.  Interestingly, a good buddy of mine just got the p7tw's with 6.0's and I got a chance to hit those yesterday.  I REALLY liked that they were noticeably lighter and I just so happen to have my PRGR and I was swinging the 6.0's about 1-2 mph faster.   I didn't really notice a huge difference in ball flight but I just liked how they felt easier to swing and probably gained a few yards as well.  Not sure I'd get the same feeling with the 6.5 as they are 5 grams heavier than the 6.0's but still 7 grams lighter than the S400.

 

According to a chart i found... stiffness of the 3 vs weight:

 

S400:  6.1 FCM / 132 grams

Project X 6.0:  6.5 FCM / 120 grams

Project X 6.5:  7 FCM / 125 grams

 

I know it's hard to get definitive answers here but it's not like I'm going to be able to hit the p7tw's with a project x 6.5 anyways.  I really like the idea of a moderately stiffer shaft and a few more yards with the 6.0's but obviously then potential better dispersion would be great if the 6.5's produce that.  I just don't know if I can handle the 6.5's all the time or not but I haven't swung one to know!

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Edited May 2 by FormerBigDaddy

[Ger21]

DG 120 X100?

[Nessism]

Standard issue Dynamic Gold X100 is my recommendation.  They have a little bit softer tip, compared to DG S300/400, so they won't feel harsh, even though stiffer overall.

[Whodamon1]

Accra iSeries Steel.  Has the best of both the DG and the PX.  

[Pepperturbo]

I have the same FCM chart measurements.

 

I played X100, then went to 6.5 for lower tolerance and trajectory, played them for a couple of years, then went to 6.0 for trajectory and lighter, played them for 15+yrs.  Have 5.5 in my 620 MB. 

 

The 5-gram difference was not noticeable for me.  And going from 6.5 to 6.0 didn't incur greater dispersion; it was relatively the same.  Lighter weight had less wear and tear, and they were easier to play every day.

[FormerBigDaddy]

59 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I have the same FCM chart measurements.

 

I played X100, then went to 6.5 for lower tolerance and trajectory, played them for a couple of years, then went to 6.0 for trajectory and lighter, played them for 15+yrs.  Have 5.5 in my 620 MB. 

 

The 5-gram difference was not noticeable for me.  And going from 6.5 to 6.0 didn't incur greater dispersion; it was relatively the same.  Lighter weight had less wear and tear, and they were easier to play every day.

This is what I’m thinking too. I like the idea a lot of a lighter shaft and I did really like feeling the difference with the 6.0 when I had a chance to swing it compared to the s400. 

[Pepperturbo]

6 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

This is what I’m thinking too. I like the idea a lot of a lighter shaft and I did really like feeling the difference with the 6.0 when I had a chance to swing it compared to the s400. 

The difference between 125g and 120g was not noticeable, but S400 to 6.0 will be noticeable, unless you have them swing weighted heavy.  SW at D3/D4 gave me the feeling, but not the actual weight.  

 

[PNW]

I'd say DG 120 X100 would make a lot of sense but with a quick transition PX 6.0 is would be better since it has a stiffer butt section. 6.0 is plenty stable at low 90s 7i swing speed. I'd only go up to 6.5 if you wanted the additional weight and prefer something closer to 130 vs 120.

[bnperrone]

My 7-iron speed is about the same and PX 6.5 would be WAY too stiff for me. 
 

PX LZ is a different story, so make sure you don’t confuse the two. I’m amazed how many people don’t realize that it is a completely different shaft, profile, stiffness, etc.

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

The difference between 125g and 120g was not noticeable, but S400 to 6.0 will be noticeable

Agree. Yesterday when I swung my buddies irons (same model but 6.0 shaft) I felt the difference and enjoyed that I could get them moving the same speed as my s400 with slightly less effort and could also get 1-2 mph more when I wanted to. 
 

 

1 hour ago, PNW said:

I'd say DG 120 X100 would make a lot of sense but with a quick transition PX 6.0 is would be better since it has a stiffer butt section. 6.0 is plenty stable at low 90s 7i swing speed. I'd only go up to 6.5 if you wanted the additional weight and prefer something closer to 130 vs 120.

you about got me sold. I don’t think I need 6.5’s and at almost 42 years old I think I’ve hit my top speeds. 😂 Been speed training and doing other golf fitness things for a long time now and I’ve peaked. Don’t think there’s any sense in killing myself trying to swing 6.5’s. 
 

 

1 hour ago, bnperrone said:

My 7-iron speed is about the same and PX 6.5 would be WAY too stiff for me. 

Thanks for the input! I think I’m sold on the 6.0. 

[Adam B]

15 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

This is what I’m thinking too. I like the idea a lot of a lighter shaft and I did really like feeling the difference with the 6.0 when I had a chance to swing it compared to the s400. 

I actually have the 6.0s in my P7TWs. It’s really nice combo and I’m about the same speed as you. I find they’re very point and shoot and there’s something about the TWs that bring it to life. Without starting a topic on blade forgiveness I was getting much better dispersion than my 223s with the same shaft so they’re here to stay. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

23 minutes ago, Adam B said:

I actually have the 6.0s in my P7TWs. It’s really nice combo and I’m about the same speed as you. I find they’re very point and shoot and there’s something about the TWs that bring it to life. Without starting a topic on blade forgiveness I was getting much better dispersion than my 223s with the same shaft so they’re here to stay. 

You don't need to convince me.  I've had mine since 2019 and my handicap has dropped from about a 12 to a 6 in that time.  I usually don't have an issue hitting it near the middle of the face and my main miss is thin, which I think they handle quite well.  What's your carry distance with your 7i if you don't mind me asking?  

[FormerBigDaddy]

So my pro still really thinks I need something stiffer than the 6.0.  But I REALLY like the feeling of the the lighter weight of the 6.0.  So now I'm thinking about hardstepping the 6.0 to play stiffer.  I really don't know much about this process though... would hardstepping the 6.0's give me the swing weight i desire but the flex I guess I need like I think?  

 

Also, what would you guys do in your wedges?  I have a 52, 56, and 60, and don't know what would be a good pairing with hardstepped 6.0's in my irons.  I do tend to take alot of fuller swings with my wedges. THoughts?

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

So my pro still really thinks I need something stiffer than the 6.0.  But I REALLY like the feeling of the the lighter weight of the 6.0.

 

Based on what?   An objective evaluation of your ball flight results?   What problem is he trying to fix with a stiffer shaft?

 

Or is his judgment based on some subjective evaluation of what he thinks you should be playing based on your swing speed?

 

Some pros out there know a decent amount about fitting but there are also plenty out there that are just as clueless as most amateurs.   Obviously I don't know anything about your pro so wont try to tell you which category he might be in.  But just make sure there really is a problem that needs to be fixed before you go changing anything.

 

But to try and answer the question, hard stepping wont have any effect on the swing weight.  But it also wont really do much to the stiffness of the shaft.  It's a subtle change at best so not likely to have any significant change on the performance.  It's only a minor tweak to the feel.   It will also increase the cut shaft weight by a small amount - ~2 gm.    Not sure I'd expect it to help - unless you need a placebo to please your pro 🙂

 

If the stiffness really is a problem and you want to keep the lighter weight,  you might look at some of the heavier graphite options - like steelfiber i110 (really plays lie a 116-118 gm shaft due to the extra tip weight required to swing weight normally).

Edited May 9 by Stuart_G

[FormerBigDaddy]

22 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Based on what?   An objective evaluation of your ball flight results?   What problem is he trying to fix with a stiffer shaft?

 

Or is his judgment based on some subjective evaluation of what he thinks you should be playing based on your swing speed?

 

Some pros out there know a decent amount about fitting but there are also plenty out there that are just as clueless as most amateurs.   Obviously I don't know anything about your pro so wont try to tell you which category he might be in.  But just make sure there really is a problem that needs to be fixed before you go changing anything.

 

But to try and answer the question, hard stepping wont have any effect on the swing weight.  But it also wont really do much to the stiffness of the shaft.  It's a subtle change at best so not likely to have any significant change on the performance.  It's only a minor tweak to the feel.   It will also increase the cut shaft weight by a small amount - ~2 gm.    Not sure I'd expect it to help - unless you need a placebo to please your pro 🙂

 

If the stiffness really is a problem and you want to keep the lighter weight,  you might look at some of the heavier graphite options - like steelfiber i110 (really plays lie a 116-118 gm shaft due to the extra tip weight required to swing weight normally).

Appreciate the advice.  I do respect my pro quite a bit and is an experienced clubfitter.  He's seen my swing/ball flight a lot and I've shared some of my numbers with him as regard to swing speeds.  With that said I think it probably is a good idea to get a better evaluation before doing anything.  I'm probably going to book an hour on the trackman with him and see what he thinks after a closer look with numbers.

[McGolf]

YOu might consider the Modus 125 for the aggressive swing type. The 115. They come in a just under 120g and the same profile as the 125

[Stuart_G]

Except the PX 6.0 is already stiffer than the Modus 125 X and TX - at least based on the numbers I've seen.