rule question regarding distance measuring device

Shortknocker · June 4, 2009

when playing in a tournament and using my own bushnell laser, am I required to tell other players the yardage if they ask me? I know that I can tell them, but I want to know if I have to.

Thanks

Calkeeno1 · June 4, 2009

I thought a distance measuring device was prohibited while playing in a tournamet/competition.

Sawgrass · June 4, 2009

I thought a distance measuring device was prohibited while playing in a tournamet/competition.

No, the USGA has left it up to the tournament to decide whether or not to allow the devices in each event.

As far as the O.P.'s question, I don't believe there is any rule which requires you to speak to your opponent other than to convey your score if asked. It all depends on how nice you choose to be, like helping a fellow competitor find his ball if you choose to do so in this "gentlemen's game".

Which makes me wonder if there is a rule about lieing to someone about the yardage if they ask. (Very ungentlemanly!)

Calkeeno1 · June 4, 2009

I thought a distance measuring device was prohibited while playing in a tournamet/competition.

No, the USGA has left it up to the tournament to decide whether or not to allow the devices in each event.

As far as the O.P.'s question, I don't believe there is any rule which requires you to speak to your opponent other than to convey your score if asked. It all depends on how nice you choose to be, like helping a fellow competitor find his ball if you choose to do so in this "gentlemen's game".

Which makes me wonder if there is a rule about lieing to someone about the yardage if they ask. (Very ungentlemanly!)

Ah didn't know they were allowed to be used in the US. I know here in the UK im pretty sure they are illegal in tournament/competition. My bad :$

PorkChopExpress · June 4, 2009

dont think you can tell them yardage.

Just like they cant ask what club you hit.

marrigo · June 4, 2009

They can't ask distance to the pin, nor can you provide the information. That's considered asking for or giving advice. I do believe they can ask, and you can provide, the distances to fixed objects such as trees next to the green/end of fairway etc...

Sawgrass · June 4, 2009

Ah didn't know they were allowed to be used in the US. I know here in the UK im pretty sure they are illegal in tournament/competition. My bad :$

And I didn't have the presence of mind to consider whether the O.P. is governed by the USGA or R&A or some other organization. Maybe it would have helped if I could have heard his accent!

Fedor Emelianenko · June 4, 2009

dont think you can tell them yardage.
Just like they cant ask what club you hit.

I'm still confused on which is correct.

It is a penalty if you ask what club your opponent hit

or

It is a penalty to ask what yardage your opponent thinks it is on a par 3

Sawgrass · June 4, 2009

dont think you can tell them yardage.
Just like they cant ask what club you hit.

They can't ask distance to the pin, nor can you provide the information. That's considered asking for or giving advice. I do believe they can ask, and you can provide, the distances to fixed objects such as trees next to the green/end of fairway etc...

Gentlemen, I am quite sure that you are both wrong about this, at least as far as the USGA is concerned. Information about the course (distances, hazards present, etc.) is specifically ruled as not being "advice". Disclosing what club you used, however, is advice, and can't be asked for or answered.

Calkeeno1 · June 4, 2009

Ah didn't know they were allowed to be used in the US. I know here in the UK im pretty sure they are illegal in tournament/competition. My bad :$

And I didn't have the presence of mind to consider whether the O.P. is governed by the USGA or R&A or some other organization. Maybe it would have helped if I could have heard his accent!

Haha we should have known better :rolleyes: *stares into crystal ball*

blade_man · June 4, 2009

dont think you can tell them yardage.
Just like they cant ask what club you hit.

I'm still confused on which is correct.

It is a penalty if you ask what club your opponent hit
or
It is a penalty to ask what yardage your opponent thinks it is on a par 3

It is a penalty for asking or answering what club

you can tell them distance

mcmski · June 4, 2009

http://www.usga.org/news/2007/October/2007_79.html

Principal Changes

General

The changes to the Rules generally fall into two broad categories: (1) those that improve the clarity of the Rules and (2) those that reduce the penalties in certain circumstances to ensure that they are proportionate.

Definitions

Advice -- Amended to allow the exchange of information on distance, as it is not considered to be "advice."

PorkChopExpress · June 4, 2009

hmm thought general rule was not allowed to give advice

ie

club hit

swing tips

my wife is hawter than your wife

but yardage isnt considered advice?

3whacker · June 4, 2009

its not considered advice because you are giving information that is available to everyone such as how many yards long is this hole, or the pin sheets that are given to players showing how many yds in and over the hole is cut.

fatmouse · June 4, 2009

my buddy plays on the golden state tour where lasers are allowed, and the players share distances all the time

TheBUNKY · June 5, 2009

Lasers that factor slope are not legal for tournament play. Lasers that don't factor slope are allowed.

Mainlinegolfer · June 5, 2009

Geez, if you don't KNOW, don't give an opinion or say, "I think...." It's easy enough to look it up and know what you are talking about.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact, and the facts are contained in the USGA rules and decisions, either in a booklet or on the USGA website (or equivalent R&A source, if applicable). In addition, you need to check your local golf association, club or tournament committee to see if there are local rules or modifications.

If you are going to play tournament golf, you ought to KNOW the rules, not speculate, no matter how arcane or complex they seem to be. Same is true for handicaps, by the way.

limpwrist · June 8, 2009

The R&A and USGA both allow for the use of distance measuring devices at the discretion of the tournament committee.

From Rule 14-3 of the R&A Rules:

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/..._2008_2011.html

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure or gauge distance only.

From Rule 14-3 of the USGA Rules:

http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14280...680221811460259

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule allowing players to use devices that measure or gauge distance only.

As has already been mentioned, distance information is not considered advice.

From Decision 8-1/2 of the R&A Decisions:

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/decisions/decisions.html

8-1/2 Exchanging Distance Information
Information regarding the distance between two objects is public information and not advice. It is therefore permissible for players to exchange information relating to the distance between two objects. For example, a player may ask anyone, including his opponent, fellow-competitor or either of their caddies, the distance between his ball and the hole.

Except when the Local Rule allowing the use of distance-measuring devices has been adopted (see Note to Rule 14-3), information regarding distance must not have been obtained from an artificial device used during the stipulated round. A player who obtains distance information that he knew was measured by anyone with an artificial device during the player’s round is disqualified under Rule 14-3. (Revised)

From Decision 8-1/2 of the USGA Decisions:

http://www.usga.org/bookdecision.aspx?id=1...166358595194084

8-1/2 Exchanging Distance Information
Information regarding the distance between two objects is public information and not advice. It is therefore permissible for players to exchange information relating to the distance between two objects. For example, a player may ask anyone, including his opponent, fellow-competitor or either of their caddies, the distance between his ball and the hole.

Except when the Local Rule allowing the use of distance-measuring devices has been adopted (see Note to Rule 14-3), information regarding distance must not have been obtained from an artificial device used during the stipulated round. A player who obtains distance information that he knew was measured by anyone with an artificial device during the player's round is disqualified under Rule 14-3. (Revised)

Hawaiianhacker · June 8, 2009

okay, this is a really stupid question, but if you are allowed to ask for distance and it's not considered 'advice', why is asking what club one used considered giving 'advice'?

after all, what may be a seven iron shot for one person, may be a six iron shot for another person or even an eight or nine iron for the next person.

Sawgrass · June 8, 2009

okay, this is a really stupid question, but if you are allowed to ask for distance and it's not considered 'advice', why is asking what club one used considered giving 'advice'?

after all, what may be a seven iron shot for one person, may be a six iron shot for another person or even an eight or nine iron for the next person.

Your question is philosophical. In a way a rule, or a decision about a rule, is its own justification. But if I may speculate on the reason that this distinction is being made, I'll say the following: Distance is something you can measure -- walk off or whatever -- given enough time. The rules makers don't wish to force you to waste time in that way, so they let you look at a 150 yard marker, a sprinkler head, range finder, or ask your fellow competitor. Advice is something different. If I hit my 6i to the green, and you know that you hit your 7i as far as I do my 6i, and you ask me what I hit and I tell you, you've learned more than distance, you've learned how the current course conditions (wind, humidity whatever) are influencing the ball. I believe it is this same philosophy which has caused the USGA to disallow slope measuring devices. You could pace off a distance to an elevated green all day and still not know precisely how high it is. So they don't want you to look at a machine and have it figure out what club to hit.