Swimming to help your golf swing

[ButterPutter]

I'm 6'2", 210 lbs, and pretty muscular, yet I can only hit my 5 iron 165, 8 iron 135, P wedge 100, etc.

 

With a driver I can swing up to 120 mph, but the above distances are more a more controlled iron swing.

 

I've been working on my swing in order to figure out if there's a swing flaw that is keeping me from generating swing speed with the irons, but I've also tried many fitness related gimmicks to try and build the necessary power.

 

Then I found out there's a free community pool in my neighborhood. I went out and bought these "Power Paddle Gloves" by Body Glove over at Sports Authority. They're webbed gloves that increase the resistance you feel when taking a swimming stroke.

 

By swimming freestyle laps each day, I feel I'm working every muscle that's used in my golf swing, especially my core rotational muscles. I've only been doing it for 2 weeks, but I feel more stability in my swing, and a bit more power so far. I also bought a pair of push up handles and have been doing about 100 push ups a day.

 

What do you guys think about the possiblity that swimming will improve my golf swing?

[Dariusz J.]

I think swimming is good as a complementary sport for any possible sport discipline, also for golf.

But this is not wahat I wanted to say - you can be very muscular and very strong but if your swing is not built from the ground up and does not use ground and shear forces - you will not be a long hitter.
Even Pudzianowski wouldn't if he used only his upper body or arms.

Cheers

[ButterPutter]

Thanks for the reply! What are shear forces?

[Dariusz J.]

Shear forces are forces that act parallelly to the base and are responsible for enabling to create torques and, consequently, kinetic energy in a rotary motion, using the friction between an object (foot/shoe/spikes) and the base (ground).

Here is a great essay by HoganFan that I've pasted and copied from one of previous threads that explain excellently the issue:

"It is simple Newtonian physics. His third law of motion:
For every action (force), there is a reaction that is equal in magnitude, opposite in direction and colinear.
A shear force at your foot (technically bottom of your shoe) describes a force which is parallel to the ground, not normal (perpendicular) to it. The shear force at the bottom of each shoe could be linear, torsional or a combination of both.
If you create torque and/or linear forces within your body to swing the club, there must be reaction forces. Since your only connection to the earth is through your feet, these reaction forces manifests themselves both in shear forces and normal forces between the bottom of your shoes and the turf.
Ever have your right foot kick out (slip) behind you when you make a swing? That happens when the shear force applied to your right foot exceeds the friction force between your shoe and the ground.
The higher the forces in your swing, the higher the shear forces/reaction forces between your shoes and the ground. Imagine floating in outer space or while standing on an ice rink in street shoes and making a golf swing. You would not be able to generate much clubhead speed as the only (in the outer space case) reaction forces to your swing would be the inertia of your torso. In an overhead view, as the club swung counterclockwise, your body would react by rotating clockwise!
This is why it is vitally important IMO, to maintain your left foot flat to the ground throughout the downswing and not get airborne or up on the toes. Doing so maximizes the magnitude of shear force which can be applied between the ground and shoe.
The magnitude of shear force which can be generated is dependent on the coefficient of friction between the shoe and turf (designated as Mu) and the normal force applied. The shear force cannot exceed the frictional force limit or your foot will slip. The equation is simple. Friction force = Mu x normal force = maximum shear force which can be applied
Not sure what the Mu is for a golf shoe on grass but it is probably a little over 1.0. The normal force is more complicated. In the simplest terms, it would be your mass, but golfers also generate accelerations in their swings which can dynamically increase normal forces substantially (such as when straightening the left left in the downswing, aka "squashing the bug/crushing the can") via Newton's second law of motion, expressed as: F=MA."

Hope that helps, cheers.

[muddawg1]

^^^^^^^^WHAT???????????????

Sounds to me like you are releasing the club too early to make any power, if you are hitting it solid that is. You need to learn to hold that wrist angle farther into the downswing.

[dietz]

I got a news letter from Roger Fredericks [url="http://www.fredericksgolf.com"]http://www.fredericksgolf.com[/url] in May. It actually addressed playing other sports to help with golf and one of them was swimming, here is what it said.

[i]"SWIMMING – Many people have gotten off the jogging trails to avoid pounding their joints and dived head first into the swimming pool as an alternative to get their cardio, and especially, to rehab injuries. The truth is, that swimming IS a fabulous way to get cardio and to rehab injuries, but I’ve found that the majority of swimmers end up getting very tight – flexibility wise. If you’ve ever played golf after a good swim, you’ve probably noticed that your swing feels like it’s wrapped in Saran Wrap. This is due to the lack of gravity in the water which doesn’t allow the oxygen to compress deep into the nerve spindles of the fascia. My recommendation? Swimming is gr eat, but make sure that you stretch before, and especially AFTER your swim."[/i]

Check out his page and sign up for his newsletter, he sends some great info, and has some excellent stretches. You may want to also check out the TPI web page [url="http://www.mytpi.com/"]http://www.mytpi.com/[/url]

I actually agree with muddawg1, it sounds as if there may be some early release going on, which would lead me to believe that there could be some grip issues ?!?

[golfortennis]

Having done a bit of triathlon, I think I can speak a little bit.

First off the paddles: be careful about using them too much. They will kill your shoulders if you do complete workouts with them. If you have a proper pull(without paddles), you should be really feeling it in your lats. That was the biggest thing I noticed after swimming for a couple of years(not much by swimming standards, 4-6K a week) was that I was hitting the ball further. Now that could be due to swimming, improved fitness, who knows. But I was hitting it further. If you're swimming 2K, I wouldn't use the paddles for more than 500m tops. Swimmers don't use them for full workouts, and they are designed for swimming improvement. I wouldn't use them more than swimmers in the hopes of golf improvement.

Stretching is important, for swimming and to get the benefits. Watch any world class swim meet, and watch them contort themselves prior to racing. They are all Gumbies!! The flexibility allows them to get in the best positions for swimming their event as best they can(sound familiar to another sport we know?).

Swimming is definitely a good way to cross-train. Just keep limber!!

[grizzlyblades]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' post='1915991' date='Aug 26 2009, 03:35 PM']Shear forces are forces that act parallelly to the base and are responsible for enabling to create torques and, consequently, kinetic energy in a rotary motion, using the friction between an object (foot/shoe/spikes) and the base (ground).

Here is a great essay by HoganFan that I've pasted and copied from one of previous threads that explain excellently the issue:

"It is simple Newtonian physics. His third law of motion:
For every action (force), there is a reaction that is equal in magnitude, opposite in direction and colinear.
A shear force at your foot (technically bottom of your shoe) describes a force which is parallel to the ground, not normal (perpendicular) to it. The shear force at the bottom of each shoe could be linear, torsional or a combination of both.
If you create torque and/or linear forces within your body to swing the club, there must be reaction forces. Since your only connection to the earth is through your feet, these reaction forces manifests themselves both in shear forces and normal forces between the bottom of your shoes and the turf.
Ever have your right foot kick out (slip) behind you when you make a swing? That happens when the shear force applied to your right foot exceeds the friction force between your shoe and the ground.
The higher the forces in your swing, the higher the shear forces/reaction forces between your shoes and the ground. Imagine floating in outer space or while standing on an ice rink in street shoes and making a golf swing. You would not be able to generate much clubhead speed as the only (in the outer space case) reaction forces to your swing would be the inertia of your torso. In an overhead view, as the club swung counterclockwise, your body would react by rotating clockwise!
This is why it is vitally important IMO, to maintain your left foot flat to the ground throughout the downswing and not get airborne or up on the toes. Doing so maximizes the magnitude of shear force which can be applied between the ground and shoe.
The magnitude of shear force which can be generated is dependent on the coefficient of friction between the shoe and turf (designated as Mu) and the normal force applied. The shear force cannot exceed the frictional force limit or your foot will slip. The equation is simple. Friction force = Mu x normal force = maximum shear force which can be applied
Not sure what the Mu is for a golf shoe on grass but it is probably a little over 1.0. The normal force is more complicated. In the simplest terms, it would be your mass, but golfers also generate accelerations in their swings which can dynamically increase normal forces substantially (such as when straightening the left left in the downswing, aka "squashing the bug/crushing the can") via Newton's second law of motion, expressed as: F=MA."

Hope that helps, cheers.[/quote]

a bit complex but good post!

[ButterPutter]

[quote name='Bluefan75' post='1917345' date='Aug 27 2009, 10:44 AM']Having done a bit of triathlon, I think I can speak a little bit.

First off the paddles: be careful about using them too much. They will kill your shoulders if you do complete workouts with them. If you have a proper pull(without paddles), you should be really feeling it in your lats. That was the biggest thing I noticed after swimming for a couple of years(not much by swimming standards, 4-6K a week) was that I was hitting the ball further. Now that could be due to swimming, improved fitness, who knows. But I was hitting it further. If you're swimming 2K, I wouldn't use the paddles for more than 500m tops. Swimmers don't use them for full workouts, and they are designed for swimming improvement. I wouldn't use them more than swimmers in the hopes of golf improvement.

Stretching is important, for swimming and to get the benefits. Watch any world class swim meet, and watch them contort themselves prior to racing. They are all Gumbies!! The flexibility allows them to get in the best positions for swimming their event as best they can(sound familiar to another sport we know?).

Swimming is definitely a good way to cross-train. Just keep limber!![/quote]


You know, it's funny, I was kinda using the tightness in my left lat and shoulder as a tool for gaining more feel at the top of my backswing. But that's just experimentation, I really should stretch!

[ButterPutter]

[quote name='Bluefan75' post='1917345' date='Aug 27 2009, 10:44 AM']Having done a bit of triathlon, I think I can speak a little bit.

First off the paddles: be careful about using them too much. They will kill your shoulders if you do complete workouts with them. If you have a proper pull(without paddles), you should be really feeling it in your lats. That was the biggest thing I noticed after swimming for a couple of years(not much by swimming standards, 4-6K a week) was that I was hitting the ball further. Now that could be due to swimming, improved fitness, who knows. But I was hitting it further. If you're swimming 2K, I wouldn't use the paddles for more than 500m tops. Swimmers don't use them for full workouts, and they are designed for swimming improvement. I wouldn't use them more than swimmers in the hopes of golf improvement.

Stretching is important, for swimming and to get the benefits. Watch any world class swim meet, and watch them contort themselves prior to racing. They are all Gumbies!! The flexibility allows them to get in the best positions for swimming their event as best they can(sound familiar to another sport we know?).

Swimming is definitely a good way to cross-train. Just keep limber!![/quote]

This post I respect but just may have to disagree. I [i]have [/i]felt the really intense burn caused by adding paddles to the already strenuous swimming stroke. [i]But[/i], it has worked out well for me. I swim at a relaxed pace... for a few laps, I'll feel the primary force coming from my shoulders, then I'll focus on my lats, then my biceps. Over the course of 30 or so laps, I've worked virtually my entire body. By alternating the muscles I focus on during my swimming stroke, I feel like I'm able to avoid overuse and injury.

I could imagine the intensity with which a triathelete swims, so for you, I would agree, [i]no paddles![/i]

[ButterPutter]

Well I went to the range, just a few weeks into my 'swimming for golf routine,' and I must say, I was hitting it a mile. I felt like I wasn't trying but I was generating effortless swing speed.

My theory, for me personally, is that I have a weak back, so I was losing power somewhere in my transfer of power from the ground to my upper body. Not only do I think that swimming has filled in the gap where I had that weakness, but it works the muscle in both directions, promoting balance.

[jaiman]

If you feel your back is weak, do pullups*. Swimming isn't going to build a lot of strength. Just like running doesn't help you squat more.

If you are looking for a great cardio workout, swimming is tough to beat.



*when I swam competitively as a kid all of our strength work was done in the gym. The pool was for LSD, sprints and technique.