Taking a drop from a hazard red stake

[greengolfhippo]

what is the proper way to take the drop

This can up today. I pushed my drive and it hit the cart path and went into an area marked with red stakes. When taking my two club length drop I would be dropping on the cart path. ? do I drop and them take releif from the cart path or do I again take my two club lengh and then drop. I did not have the option to dropping on the other side of the hazard as the hazard was also the boundary of the hole. I guess my only other option would have been going back to the tee.
Here is what I did. I took my initial refeif with two clubs lenghts and then again took refief from the cart path. By doing this I was able to hit the green and one putt for my par. Was this correct?

[KevCarter]

Good job. You proceeded correctly. You have to go through the motion of both drops...

Kevin

[atlanta golfer]

I've seen a similar situation on another course, earlier this summer. I think some of this confusion could be avoided, and play speeded up, if the course superintendent would simply give some thought as to better placement of the red stakes relative to the actual hazard and the cart path. It just makes no sense to put the stakes something like 2-3 feet from the path. Either provide enough room between stakes and path to take a good stance and hit the ball, or else put the stakes very close to the edge of the path so that two club lengths will get a person across the path and onto grass.

Another thing I have seen recently, which is really a different situation, is where very tall grass, like knee high, is allowed to grow up more than two club lengths inside the red stakes. Now you are taking a drop into a mess that is just as bad as what is inside the actual hazard. Again, I think it is just lack of attention to detail on the part of the course super.

[Newby]

[quote name='atlanta golfer' post='1920058' date='Aug 28 2009, 09:48 PM']Another thing I have seen recently, which is really a different situation, is where very tall grass, like knee high, is allowed to grow up more than two club lengths inside the red stakes. Now you are taking a drop into a mess that is just as bad as what is inside the actual hazard. Again, I think it is just lack of attention to detail on the part of the course super.[/quote]

The USGA and R&A say that the player should have a reasonable area in which to drop.

[bradbuff]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you only get one club length when you take relief without penalty. You only take two club lengths when you are taking relief with a penalty.

Also, I don't think you get relief from a red stake at all unless you take a penalty as an unplayable lie. You can, however, remove the stake and play it where it lies.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='bradbuff' post='1921029' date='Aug 29 2009, 06:22 AM']Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you only get one club length when you take relief without penalty. You only take two club lengths when you are taking relief with a penalty.

Also, I don't think you get relief from a red stake at all unless you take a penalty as an unplayable lie. You can, however, remove the stake and play it where it lies.[/quote]

2 club lengths for hazard drop
1 club length from nearest point of relief from obstruction.

The question had nothing to do with the red stake being an obstruction, thread title was a little misleading.

Kevin

[greengolfhippo]

Thanks for pointing out that it is only one club lenght for taking a drop from a cart path. I took two club lenght and now know I was wrong. Well this is going to cost me some money when I get to the course today and pay back my buddies I was playing with. I guess I should also see if my pro can adjust my posted score as I did not make par as I thought and did not take a penalty for taking an improper drop.
I really had a brain fart as I know it two club if you are taking a penalty and only one club otherwise.
Thanks too all that have replied.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='greengolfhippo' post='1921156' date='Aug 29 2009, 09:55 AM']Thanks for pointing out that it is only one club lenght for taking a drop from a cart path. I took two club lenght and now know I was wrong. Well this is going to cost me some money when I get to the course today and pay back my buddies I was playing with. I guess I should also see if my pro can adjust my posted score as I did not make par as I thought and did not take a penalty for taking an improper drop.
I really had a brain fart as I know it two club if you are taking a penalty and only one club otherwise.
Thanks too all that have replied.[/quote]


When you incorrectly took two club lengths from the cart path instead of one, don't forget that you are allowed the one club length from the nearest point of complete relief, not necessarily from the path's edge. For instance, if you would have had to move the ball further away from the path to clear your feet, perhaps your "two club length drop" was still within the one club length from nearest point of compete relief area.

Don't give the money back if this is the case!

[KMeloney]

The OP had to take a penalty stroke when taking his drop, correct? (Maybe that was a "given" in this scenario, but I just want to make sure.)

[KevCarter]

[quote name='KMeloney' post='1926612' date='Sep 1 2009, 08:26 AM']The OP had to take a penalty stroke when taking his drop, correct? (Maybe that was a "given" in this scenario, but I just want to make sure.)[/quote]

Correct Mr. Meloney.

Cheers,
Kevin

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

If your ball is playable you can hit out of red staked area without penalty if you do NOT ground your club.

many course area red staking rather than OB to speed up play. You don't need to go back to the tee, just a lost stroke, not the distanace as well.

[Newby]

[quote name='KMeloney' post='1926612' date='Sep 1 2009, 02:26 PM']The OP had to take a penalty stroke when taking his drop, correct? (Maybe that was a "given" in this scenario, but I just want to make sure.)[/quote]
A penalty for the drop from the lateral water hazard but no penalty for the drop from the path.

[Bobalu]

As a side question- let's say you hit your ball into a red-staked hazard with 8" of rough. When you address your ball, you have to avoid grounding your club. What is the definition of grounding a club in 8" rough? Same rules as in the fairway? Can you get that club down low to the ground, but just not touch the soil, and still meet the rules requirements? In one inch of grass/rough, you can let your club head get down in the grass as long as it doesn't rest against the soil?

[Bobalu]

Also when you take any type of ball drop- for relief or penalty- what if during the ball drop, it hits a rock or root and then bounces off your foot? Is there another penalty for this or do you just re-drop the ball?

[huy]

As a side question- let's say you hit your ball into a red-staked hazard with 8" of rough. When you address your ball, you have to avoid grounding your club. What is the definition of grounding a club in 8" rough? Same rules as in the fairway? Can you get that club down low to the ground, but just not touch the soil, and still meet the rules requirements? In one inch of grass/rough, you can let your club head get down in the grass as long as it doesn't rest against the soil?

 

13-4/4 Touching Grass with Club During Practice Swing in Hazard

 

Q. A player takes a practice swing in a water hazard without grounding his club, but his club touches some long grass. Is there a penalty?

 

A. No — see Note to Rule 13-4. However, the player must ensure that his actions do not breach Rule 13-2 or constitute testing the condition of the hazard. (Revised)

 

 

 

 

13-4/8 When Club Touches Ground in Grass in Water Hazard

 

Q. If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?

 

A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded). (New)

[huy]

Also when you take any type of ball drop- for relief or penalty- what if during the ball drop, it hits a rock or root and then bounces off your foot? Is there another penalty for this or do you just re-drop the ball?

 

20-2. Dropping and Re-Dropping

a. By Whom and How

 

If the ball when dropped touches any person or the equipment of any player before or after it strikes a part of the course and before it comes to rest, the ball must be re-dropped, without penalty. There is no limit to the number of times a ball must be re-dropped in these circumstances.

[KMeloney]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='1926624' date='Sep 1 2009, 09:35 AM'][quote name='KMeloney' post='1926612' date='Sep 1 2009, 08:26 AM']The OP had to take a penalty stroke when taking his drop, correct? (Maybe that was a "given" in this scenario, but I just want to make sure.)[/quote]

Correct Mr. Meloney.
[/quote]


[quote name='Newby' post='1927625' date='Sep 1 2009, 04:59 PM']A penalty for the drop from the lateral water hazard but no penalty for the drop from the path.[/quote]

Thanks, folks!

[bjorgensen]

Don't forget that another option from a lateral water hazard is to drop back as far as you want (or need to clear the path) along the line that the hole and point the ball crossed into the hazard makes. One stroke penalty.

[atlanta golfer]

[quote name='bjorgensen' post='1933807' date='Sep 4 2009, 02:55 PM']Don't forget that another option from a lateral water hazard is to drop back as far as you want (or need to clear the path) along the line that the hole and point the ball crossed into the hazard makes. One stroke penalty.[/quote]

Unfortunately, it is more common that the red stakes are along the side of a hole, so that going backwards only takes you further into the hazard, or into some other equally unpleasant place to play from.

On a related note, it is interesting how many people think you can go back as far as you want on the line of flight. Under normal circumstances, the rules for dropping from a regular hazard or a lateral hazard are quite simple and the options are clear in the rule book, and yet I would say the majority of golfers still don't properly understand them. I've responded to questions on the course with the usual options (replay from original place with loss of stroke and distance, drop 2 club lengths from entry point not nearer the hole, and go back from point of entry as far as you want, keeping straight line from hole to entry point, and finally, for a lateral, going to the opposite side of the hazard (how often is this really a viable option?). Some people act like they don't believe you ---- all they know is to "take a drop". Actually, same options for unplayable lie, now that I think of it. Again, most people just know to "take a drop".