Ball moves on the green, but in a scramble.

[Tmiller72]

I know the rules concerning a ball moving on the green in individual play. But the other day this happened in a scramble. 2 of us had already hit our putts and the 3rd guy's ball moved and rolled down near the cup before he had addressed it. Since it's a scramble and 2 of us had already putted, would he be allowed to play from where the ball ended up or does he have to replace it?

[Carolina Golfer 2]

My guess is since most scrambles play loose with the official rules anyway, there's no harm in just replacing it and playing on.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a penalty stroke being assessed in a scramble

[wwhitehead]

You might note that scrambles aren't even permitted under the rules of golf. To consider whether to apply any of them is an exercise in futility.

WW

[Tmiller72]

[quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1964024' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:23 PM']My guess is since most scrambles play loose with the official rules anyway, there's no harm in just replacing it and playing on.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a penalty stroke being assessed in a scramble [/quote]


The player didn't cause the ball to move, so a penalty was never in question. The question is would it have been ok for him to play from where the ball moved to. As Whitehead said scrambles aren't permitted by the rules of golf, so maybe it's more of an ethical question on moving the ball back or playing it? I told him to replace the ball to be on the safe side.

[Mr. Herbert]

Since it's a scramble, you all have to play your shots from the same point. Since two people have already putted, I think you're committed to that spot on the green, and the ball should be replaced.

Now if it was the first person getting ready to putt, and the ball moved, I think then that maybe all of you could putt from the new position, since no one had putted yet before the ball moved.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Tmiller72' post='1964037' date='Sep 21 2009, 02:29 PM'][quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1964024' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:23 PM']My guess is since most scrambles play loose with the official rules anyway, there's no harm in just replacing it and playing on.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a penalty stroke being assessed in a scramble [/quote]


The player didn't cause the ball to move, so a penalty was never in question. The question is would it have been ok for him to play from where the ball moved to. As Whitehead said scrambles aren't permitted by the rules of golf, so maybe it's more of an ethical question on moving the ball back or playing it? I told him to replace the ball to be on the safe side.
[/quote]

TMiller, you handled it exactly the way I would have.

Kevin

[Carolina Golfer 2]

[quote name='Tmiller72' post='1964037' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:29 PM'][quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1964024' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:23 PM']My guess is since most scrambles play loose with the official rules anyway, there's no harm in just replacing it and playing on.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a penalty stroke being assessed in a scramble [/quote]


The player didn't cause the ball to move, so a penalty was never in question. The question is would it have been ok for him to play from where the ball moved to. As Whitehead said scrambles aren't permitted by the rules of golf, so maybe it's more of an ethical question on moving the ball back or playing it? I told him to replace the ball to be on the safe side.
[/quote]
You're right I read the post wrong. But in anycase, I would have done what you did, move it back to the original spot.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Mr. Herbert' post='1964073' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:51 PM']Since it's a scramble, you all have to play your shots from the same point. Since two people have already putted, I think you're committed to that spot on the green, and the ball should be replaced.

Now if it was the first person getting ready to putt, and the ball moved, I think then that maybe all of you could putt from the new position, since no one had putted yet before the ball moved.[/quote]


I think this is a fascinating question, and I think Mr. Herbert's answer is an appropriate response to a perhaps unanswerable question.

What we really need is a USSA (United States Scramble Association) to provide a definative answer.

[mikec222]

well usually the ball just has to be within a certain distance to the original one, so if its still in that zone, I would say your good to go.

But really its a scramble, so there really isn't even an official rule on this.

[Tmiller72]

[quote name='mikec222' post='1964327' date='Sep 21 2009, 06:40 PM']well usually the ball just has to be within a certain distance to the original one, so if its still in that zone, I would say your good to go.

But really its a scramble, so there really isn't even an official rule on this.[/quote]

It was about 12 feet above the hole and ended up 4 feet below the hole.

[mikec222]

Just replace it and go on.

If you're playing by the rest of the rules you are probably doing better than 90% of the other groups.

[Newby]

[quote name='wwhitehead' post='1964029' date='Sep 21 2009, 07:25 PM']You might note that scrambles aren't even permitted under the rules of golf. To consider whether to apply any of them is an exercise in futility.

WW[/quote]

Just to be pedantic, scrambles are not 'not permitted', they are simply not recognised in the Rules of Golf as a form of play.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Newby' post='1965112' date='Sep 22 2009, 05:19 AM'][quote name='wwhitehead' post='1964029' date='Sep 21 2009, 07:25 PM']You might note that scrambles aren't even permitted under the rules of golf. To consider whether to apply any of them is an exercise in futility.

WW[/quote]

Just to be pedantic, scrambles are not 'not permitted', they are simply not recognised in the Rules of Golf as a form of play.
[/quote]

Pedantic? Okay, let me play too. The customary scramble has you play your ball from a place that is frequently not the place where you hit it. It is a stroke-type competition. Assuming that your group's constantly doing this has created a number of occasions where the replacement of the ball created a serious breach of the rule requiring you to play from your original lie, Rule 20-7c would have you disqualified. Disqualification seems to me to indicate "not permitted." So while scrambles may not be referenced, scramble-like behavior is not permitted. So I'm with wwhitehead on this issue regarding the futile nature of finding an answer to the original question. I'm at the same time acknowledging that I'm being absolutely ridiculous in writing this post.

[Golffabrik]

[quote]So while scrambles may not be referenced, [b][u]scramble-like behavior is not permitted.[/u][/b] So I'm with wwhitehead on this issue regarding the futile nature of finding an answer to the original question. [b]I'm at the same time acknowledging that I'm being absolutely ridiculous in writing this post.[/b][/quote]

Now that is priceless.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Mr. Herbert' post='1964073' date='Sep 21 2009, 12:51 PM']Since it's a scramble, you all have to play your shots from the same point. Since two people have already putted, I think you're committed to that spot on the green, and the ball should be replaced.

Now if it was the first person getting ready to putt, and the ball moved, I think then that maybe all of you could putt from the new position, since no one had putted yet before the ball moved.[/quote]

This is my "scramble rules" interpretation:

The third person should putt from new location as should the fourth. If neither of those two make the putt then the first and second should get a retry from the new position since normally everyone should play from the same spot. This is only valid if the ball moved CLOSER to the hole. If the ball moved farther from the hole, then that should be disregarded completely.

[Newby]

IIf you are going to play a scramble ALWAYS make the best choice for your team. Every other team will.