is what Schwarzel just did legal now?

[MtlJeff]

"testing the surface" question

Firstly, i'm not calling anyone a cheater so don't jump all over me (i've seen what happens to people who start threads like this)

but it looked like Schwartzel hit a bunker shot that went into another bunker on the other side of the green, he then swung his club into the sand with another practice/frustration type swing

there used to be a "testing a similar surface" rule that would be a penalty (remember Stewart Cink getting DQ'd a couple of years ago?) but i think it was changed, can anyone explain the rule to me?

or did i see something that didn't happen...i've been flipping back and forth so i may be wrong

[slprince67]

you are correct......in the past that would have been a penalty. They (USGA and R&A) changed/clarified it mid year in 2008 or 2009. Now...no penalty.

[MtlJeff]

i thought i remembered hearing that but wasn't sure....thanks for the quick response

[mgranato]

How 'bout this one...

Can a player hit the sand in a near by bunker [b][i]before[/i][/b] making his stroke in a different bunker? This happened a couple years ago in a local tourny, just curious what most here think the proper ruling would be - then or now.

[pittsy]

I believe if his ball would have traveled and gone into the same bunker like sergio at the players then he would have been penalized.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='mgranato' date='14 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268606044' post='2315639']
How 'bout this one...

Can a player hit the sand in a near by bunker [b][i]before[/i][/b] making his stroke in a different bunker? This happened a couple years ago in a local tourny, just curious what most here think the proper ruling would be - then or now.
[/quote]

Add 2, then and now.

[b]13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions[/b]
Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;

[offapex]

i also saw the highlight and thought it was odd that he didn't get penalized, but i guess they changed the rules.

[Newby]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='14 March 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1268607779' post='2315690']
[quote name='mgranato' date='14 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268606044' post='2315639']
How 'bout this one...

Can a player hit the sand in a near by bunker [b][i]before[/i][/b] making his stroke in a different bunker? This happened a couple years ago in a local tourny, just curious what most here think the proper ruling would be - then or now.
[/quote]

Add 2, then and now.

[b]13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions[/b]
Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;
[/quote]

Exception
3. If the player makes a[url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Stroke"][i] stroke[/i][/url] from a [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard [/i][/url]and the ball comes to rest in another [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard[/i][/url], Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14278#13-4"]13-4a[/url] does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard[/i][/url] from which the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Stroke"][i]stroke[/i][/url] was made.

[Newby]

[quote name='MtlJeff' date='14 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1268604584' post='2315607']

there used to be a "testing a similar surface" rule that would be a penalty (remember Stewart Cink getting DQ'd a couple of years ago?) but i think it was changed, can anyone explain the rule to me? [/quote]

The Cink cas was different. He sttod in a bunker to play a ball that was outside. His ball finished in another bunker and he cleaned up his footprints in the first. This was resolved by

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-13/#13-4/0.7

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Newby' date='15 March 2010 - 03:22 AM' timestamp='1268641357' post='2316602']
[quote name='kevcarter ' date='14 March 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1268607779' post='2315690']
[quote name='mgranato' date='14 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268606044' post='2315639']
How 'bout this one...

Can a player hit the sand in a near by bunker [b][i]before[/i][/b] making his stroke in a different bunker? This happened a couple years ago in a local tourny, just curious what most here think the proper ruling would be - then or now.
[/quote]

Add 2, then and now.

[b]13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions[/b]
Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;
[/quote]

Exception
3. If the player makes a[url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Stroke"][i] stroke[/i][/url] from a [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard [/i][/url]and the ball comes to rest in another [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard[/i][/url], Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14278#13-4"]13-4a[/url] does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Hazards"][i]hazard[/i][/url] from which the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Stroke"][i]stroke[/i][/url] was made.
[/quote]
Newby,

The question I answered was [b][i]before[/i][/b] a stroke was made...

Kevin

[Speedly]

This came up with McIlroy last year, at Sawgrass I think? I don't remember. They ended up not penalizing him in the end, although I'm sure he got a lecture about restraint in the public eye.

Edit: Also, does anyone know the reasoning on which the rule was originally made? I mean, making rules is by nature a reactive thing - so what was it that led them to that decision?

[Newby]

Kevin

Yes, but making the stroke in the first bunker after hitting it into the second is[b] before[/b] making [b]a [/b]stroke in the second bunker......

[Newby]

[quote name='Speedly' date='15 March 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1268657054' post='2316695']


Edit: Also, does anyone know the reasoning on which the rule was originally made? I mean, making rules is by nature a reactive thing - so what was it that led them to that decision?
[/quote]

Which specific rule do you mean. A couple have cropped up here.

[Speedly]

Right, right.

I speak of the no-testing-the-surface-of-a-hazard rule, the generalized version of it. Situation-specific, what made it illegal to take a practice, grounding swing before a shot in a bunker? Obviously something must have happened, or it wouldn't be a rule.

[Rockfish]

[quote name='Newby' date='15 March 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1268689942' post='2317846']
Kevin

Yes, but making the stroke in the first bunker after hitting it into the second is[b] before[/b] making [b]a [/b]stroke in the second bunker......
[/quote]

[b]YOU [/b]were answering the original question.

[b]HE [/b]was answering the question posed in Post #4.

i.e. You are BOTH correct !

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Rockfish' date='15 March 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1268702048' post='2318340']
[quote name='Newby' date='15 March 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1268689942' post='2317846']
Kevin

Yes, but making the stroke in the first bunker after hitting it into the second is[b] before[/b] making [b]a [/b]stroke in the second bunker......
[/quote]

[b]YOU [/b]were answering the original question.

[b]HE [/b]was answering the question posed in Post #4.

i.e. You are BOTH correct !
[/quote]

I get it, didn't mean to be rude to my friend Newby. Newby has a wonderful understanding of the rules!

Cheers Guys,
Kevin

[Newby]