6 hr rounds Is this the new trend?

[SoCal Dawg]

Six hours is atrocious. My experience out here in CA is golf can be feast or famine. The local public course I used to play was slow during the week but on weekends it was over a 5-hour round consistently. We tried some other sub-$150 places and had similar experiences. The wife plays and she almost went ballistic. We broke down and joined a club thanks to a great deal when we bought a new home.

Nothing personal but I also find that stopwatch-round person just as annoying. I want to play chilled out but in a fair and reasonable time. I dern sure ain't looking to set a speed record.

[Senior_Golfer]

[quote name='birdieboy52' timestamp='1295739912' post='2915767']
[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1290043018' post='2795866']
When I was a course marshall I have, on occassions, ask a foresome on a 3.5hr pace to pull over and let the foresome behind them through. A good marshall can make the request in a manner not to offend anyone in the group. The object is a good pace of play, and for everyone to have a good time and experience. I found it easy to do both. A reason the management asked me to open on their most crowded days.

One thng I had to explain to the Pro's in the shop was not to send out twosomes. Twosomes will shut down the pace pf play quickly, but at times a newer Pro would send out a twosome, and I would find a way to deal with them, which is difficult but not impossible. Being a course marshall can be an interesting challenge because of the many varibles when dealing with people of different skill levels.
[/quote]


How could a twosome shut down the pace of play?
[/quote]

[Random Hack]

God bless you people who've played six hour rounds; I've yet to play a four hour round at my club - as mentioned above, when people have etiquette, they'll concede someone's eight footer for triple (thereby saving that person at least two strokes and a couple of minutes per hole in wasted time).

And to the guy who brought two complete novices onto the golf course for an 8am tee time and then was frustrated/surprised that he was admonished for pace of play by the marshall (post #31) - you're kidding, right? There's a reason my club doesn't allow women or juniors on the course before noon on weekends................you gotta use some common sense, bud.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='YipMaster' timestamp='1301446173' post='3100706']
God bless you people who've played six hour rounds; I've yet to play a four hour round at my club - as mentioned above, when people have etiquette, they'll concede someone's eight footer for triple (thereby saving that person at least two strokes and a couple of minutes per hole in wasted time).

And to the guy who brought two complete novices onto the golf course for an 8am tee time and then was frustrated/surprised that he was admonished for pace of play by the marshall (post #31) - you're kidding, right? There's a reason my club doesn't allow women or juniors on the course before noon on weekends................you gotta use some common sense, bud.
[/quote]

So wrong on so many levels...

[roll - gybe]

Happens to me all the time. I play two D1 courses frequently. When you get behind college players and high school team players, the rest of your day's schedule should be cancelled. Crazy, but if it involves competitve play, most people on this board think 5:30 is cool.Worst I ever have been a part of: 6 hours behind NCSU women playing a practice round of freshly punched greens. The coaches would not permit me through, so it was endorsed. When two girls hit OB on 17, didn't hit provisionals and had to walk back, I got a chance to tell the coach 6 hours pace on punched greens was too slow on the tee box. She acted like I didn't exist.

[larrybud]

I keep hearing about college players being slow, but I'm a member at a University course and have played behind and with the women's team. They move right along. They also putt every single thing out.

[DavePelz4]

If you want to know what's killing participation in the game it's 6, heck, even 5 hour rounds. I'll get in 36 tomorrow, walking in under 5 hours. Courses would be well serving their entire clientele base to have rangers maintaining the pace of play. There's no reason not to play ready golf, not to look at your putt while others are lining up theirs and keep the game moving.

[triplebogeyblues]

Unfortunately, this is where the majority of public courses are headed. They cram as many tee times on that sheet as humanly possible, with complete disregard to a pleasurable experience.

[goliath23]

I had a couple of really slow rounds at 1 course both over 5h30min and never went back. I was on a 7 hr pace after 9 holes at a course. Convinced the marshal to let us pass 2 groups and the entire back nine was empty played the back nine in 1h20min.
This year I've joined a private club and hope to play headache free all year. Just so many problems at public courses.

[Senior_Golfer]

Speaking fro my experience which includes 10 years of being a Marshall of one of the most played courses in Texas. Rounds should rarely exceed 4:15, and often under 4:00. There is much that can be done by the course staff to make sure the pace of play, regardless of the player skill, is withen 4:15 or less.

Sadly there is not much training offered in managing pace of play. The Marshalls, on the course, are often Seniors that give the coursse a few hours per week in exchange for golf playing privilages. These Marshalls all, in my opinion, want to do a god job, but they lack the skill of approaching golfers in a manner that is polite and accomplish their mission of getting a group to catch_up. As a result they will drive by and wave, call the pro shop, or hang out on a near by location and stare. This is not effective in managing pace of play with a group who has fallen behind. Some will approach the players with a command, or request for the players to catch_up in a manner that offends the players.

Reading the player(s) is key. As a Marshall approaching a group it is easy to read body language, and then address the group in a manner that will gain their respect and accomplish the mission of pace of play. During my 10 years I approached several with different levels of experience and personalities. Never did I have a problem that I could not address in a mannner that the group had a good time, and kept the pace of play.

Sometimes you, as a Marshall, have to be creative. Just a couple of examples because there are many.

The course had scheduled a small tournement of six groups. They were having a great time, but were falling behind. when I saw the first group behind the tournament waiting on the tee box for the fairway to clear I new it would not be long before the groups coming up would catch_up with the group waiting and we would have a log jam.. slowing the pace to maybe 5 hours. I approached the head of the tournament and got a feel that it was a Company outting designed to have a good time. I explained that it would be helpful it his groups moved forward "one" hole each and then the rest of the golfers (not in his tournament) playing could also have a good time. He agreed and I move each group one hole ahead, and it opened the entire course (no delays), and everyone had a good time.

Sorry I am starting to ramble, and I need to watch the clock because I will be playing today.

Lastly I have thought it would be a good idea to start a school for Marshalls, and PGA Members. It could be given at the course wanting help. It should not take more than 3 days.. anyone interested send me a note.

Golf is the Fountaun of Youth.. Just ask any Senior

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1301443609' post='3100571']
[quote name='birdieboy52' timestamp='1295739912' post='2915767']
[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1290043018' post='2795866']
When I was a course marshall I have, on occassions, ask a foresome on a 3.5hr pace to pull over and let the foresome behind them through. A good marshall can make the request in a manner not to offend anyone in the group. The object is a good pace of play, and for everyone to have a good time and experience. I found it easy to do both. A reason the management asked me to open on their most crowded days.

One thng I had to explain to the Pro's in the shop was not to send out twosomes. Twosomes will shut down the pace pf play quickly, but at times a newer Pro would send out a twosome, and I would find a way to deal with them, which is difficult but not impossible. Being a course marshall can be an interesting challenge because of the many varibles when dealing with people of different skill levels.
[/quote]


How could a twosome shut down the pace of play?
[/quote]
[/quote]

Senior, I didn't see if you answered this question...the only way I can see one twosome shutting down the pace is if they are impatient and actually pass more than one group. Is that correct?

[Snufles]

After grabbing 2 Timmies I will get to the course around 5ish just to make sure I'm the first one out. Get the first round out of the way in 3 hours then join my regular foursome after some breakfast.

Also playing in not so nice weather is a real bonus.

[Snufles]

[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1301491846' post='3101952']
Speaking fro my experience which includes 10 years of being a Marshall of one of the most played courses in Texas. Rounds should rarely exceed 4:15, and often under 4:00. There is much that can be done by the course staff to make sure the pace of play, regardless of the player skill, is withen 4:15 or less.

Sadly there is not much training offered in managing pace of play. The Marshalls, on the course, are often Seniors that give the coursse a few hours per week in exchange for golf playing privilages. These Marshalls all, in my opinion, want to do a god job, but they lack the skill of approaching golfers in a manner that is polite and accomplish their mission of getting a group to catch_up. As a result they will drive by and wave, call the pro shop, or hang out on a near by location and stare. This is not effective in managing pace of play with a group who has fallen behind. Some will approach the players with a command, or request for the players to catch_up in a manner that offends the players.

Reading the player(s) is key. As a Marshall approaching a group it is easy to read body language, and then address the group in a manner that will gain their respect and accomplish the mission of pace of play. During my 10 years I approached several with different levels of experience and personalities. Never did I have a problem that I could not address in a mannner that the group had a good time, and kept the pace of play.

Sometimes you, as a Marshall, have to be creative. Just a couple of examples because there are many.

The course had scheduled a small tournement of six groups. They were having a great time, but were falling behind. when I saw the first group behind the tournament waiting on the tee box for the fairway to clear I new it would not be long before the groups coming up would catch_up with the group waiting and we would have a log jam.. slowing the pace to maybe 5 hours. I approached the head of the tournament and got a feel that it was a Company outting designed to have a good time. I explained that it would be helpful it his groups moved forward "one" hole each and then the rest of the golfers (not in his tournament) playing could also have a good time. He agreed and I move each group one hole ahead, and it opened the entire course (no delays), and everyone had a good time.

Sorry I am starting to ramble, and I need to watch the clock because I will be playing today.

Lastly I have thought it would be a good idea to start a school for Marshalls, and PGA Members. It could be given at the course wanting help. It should not take more than 3 days.. anyone interested send me a note.

Golf is the Fountaun of Youth.. Just ask any Senior
[/quote]



Marshals are becoming extinct IMHO. Rarely ever see them anymore.

[roll - gybe]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1301454378' post='3101226']<br />I keep hearing about college players being slow, but I'm a member at a University course and have played behind and with the women's team.  They move right along.  They also putt every single thing out.<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

Wish it were true everywhere!

[Senior_Golfer]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1301522491' post='3103606']
[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1301443609' post='3100571']
[quote name='birdieboy52' timestamp='1295739912' post='2915767']
[quote name='Senior_Golfer' timestamp='1290043018' post='2795866']
When I was a course marshall I have, on occassions, ask a foresome on a 3.5hr pace to pull over and let the foresome behind them through. A good marshall can make the request in a manner not to offend anyone in the group. The object is a good pace of play, and for everyone to have a good time and experience. I found it easy to do both. A reason the management asked me to open on their most crowded days.

One thng I had to explain to the Pro's in the shop was not to send out twosomes. Twosomes will shut down the pace pf play quickly, but at times a newer Pro would send out a twosome, and I would find a way to deal with them, which is difficult but not impossible. Being a course marshall can be an interesting challenge because of the many varibles when dealing with people of different skill levels.
[/quote]


How could a twosome shut down the pace of play?
[/quote]
[/quote]

Senior, I didn't see if you answered this question...the only way I can see one twosome shutting down the pace is if they are impatient and actually pass more than one group. Is that correct?
[/quote]

[Senior_Golfer]

The twosome will be playing at a faster pace than the foursomes. At a point they have to stop and wait for the group ahead of them. The forusomes behind the twosome will catch the twosome in about 27 min, and they must also stop at that point, withen another few min the next foursome catches up, and you will see the pace of play shutting down. Given the course is full there is nowhere to move the twosome.

The same is true when there is a slow foursome that gets behind and groups will start stacking up in less than 30 min. A slow foursome is much eaiser to deal with than a twosome without a place to go. A good marshal has to be quick to notice slow groups to prevent the course from slowing down. A twosome needs to move at the pace of a foursome averaging 13 min a hole. In a case whhere the forusome ahead of the twosome falls behind, at that point it is good to use the twosome to fill the gap rather than push the slow foursome.

The proper way to push a group through is to have the group that is allowing the other group to continue to play their shots until the group moving through is in place to hit their shots. Once that group has hit their shots the forward group continues to play their shots until the other group is ready to hit their shot.. pretty quickly the groups have switched palces withn out changing the pace of play. Done correctly you can move a twosome through the course with no disruption of play or pace, but you need a savvy marshal that can work with all groups, the better decision is not to send a twosome out on crowded days.

I hope my answer helps

[bananapel]

I played in a 2some last summer and there were nothing buy 4somes on the course. We didn't even try to play through but just slowed our play to tour style reading of the greens lol. Worked out rather well for our scores and everybody as we weren't on anybody's butt.

Some people are just oblivious to timing. We had a little outing last sunday with a 3-4-4-4 tee off and nobody else was on the course really, private course. The 3some finished 1.5 hrs ahead of the first foursome. That's kind of ridiculous. We were on the 2nd foursome's, I played in last group, butt ALL day and even had a kid shoot over 140 in our group. However, to be fair, 2 people shot under 75 and the last under 80 so it was a little expected....but not every single hole. The front nine took 2 hrs 45 min WITH carts. After that, we ran up to the first 4some and told them to speed the f up lol. Back nine took about 2 hrs 15 min or so.

People should be their own marshalls but they aren't and it's kind of messed up. If somebody is slow in my group, I usually say something...even if it's a stranger.

[roll - gybe]

Senior_G -- great comments on how a course employee can approach different groups. Love it! Very perceptive!!!

One nuance I would to offer about the twosome issue is this: It's not really the twosome having to wait that backs the course up. It's the foursome behind the twosome also catching up to the twosome.

Now, the twosome will have some time drag getting restarted, but since they are already moving faster than a generic foursome, that shouldn't be a net loss in time. So, at this point, I would expect the twosome to move as fast as the 1st foursome. Since they have gained ground, the trailing foursome needs to gain just as much ground.

Once this happens, the backup begins, because startup times on the foursome's shots are larger in aggregate. Once foursomes stack up, the wait times increase exponentially.

So, mostly the 2nd foursome just needs to be moving a little faster than the first foursome for this to happen. If the first foursome is slow, that's fixable like you said. I think things get tricky when multiple groups are playing a touch faster than pace and the original group is on pace. Notice it's just a touch, not speed golf! Once the friction begins, whether caused by a 2 some, 3 some, or 4 some, if more than 2 groups are playing a touch fast, time drag starts and grows exponentially throughout the course.

Here's where I offer my opinion on this situation :
If the original group is playing to stated course pace, but has space (a full hole) in front of them, and the field is stacked behind them for more than 2 groups, then they should be asked to play ready golf until they catch the group in front of them (or until the jam abates).

I know the original group is going to reply that they are playing to stated pace. They are going to be unhappy with the ranger... But if the principle is "keep up" rather than eg: "play to 4:30 pace" then one big impediment gets relieved.

Haha, now why did type all this out? Because I think there is some kind of heuristic floating around the industry regarding 2 somes. I have been told by multiple starters at several courses that because we are a 2/3-some, it will take longer to finish our round.

For example a true story: Finsh up a 5:30 round in good spirits a year ago
Ranger: Hello, are you really the XX group?
Us: Well yes, we are, it was jammed up out there. But we had fun. I even hit a hole in one today!
Ranger: Congratulations. Sorry about the pace, but you know it does takes longer when you are a 2 some.

[boriqua'72]

This is why I play most of my golf in the fall and winter or the late afternoon in spring and summer for a quick nine. It's more productive to practice.