Hogan's Swing and Golf Game

[hbgpagolfpro]

It is understandable to me that golfers focus so much attention on Ben Hogan's swing since he is wide regarded as a great ball striker. However, when I read Kris Tschetter's book, it became clear to me that his success was due to his golf course management and not just his ball striking. This is what made Nicklaus successful as well.

 

Unfortunately, most golf instruction is focused on the full swing, yet most golfers can shave many strokes off their handicap with improved short game and golf course management skills.

 

Hogan had a beautiful swing and he kept it sharp because he practiced so much. There are many other beautiful swings out there belonging to less successful golfers. The difference between them and Hogan is that he outworked most of his opponents, and managed his game better. Hogan himself admitted he only hit 3 or 4 really good shots each round.

 

If you don't have the time to hit 500 balls on the range every day, it makes no sense trying to groove a beautiful swing like Hogan. It makes even less sense trying to pick apart his golf swing to find his "secret." His is not the only golf swing that worked well. When I played in college, there were a few pros who played at our course in Williamsburg, VA (Kingsmill), among them Curtis Strange. This was back in the mid-80's. At the time, they said that Nicklaus was still the best ball striker on tour, and he was in his mid-40s. Nobody tries to pick apart his swing to find the secret because it is simply not as pretty as Hogan's. But, it worked!

 

You are far better off learning how Nicklaus and Hogan managed their game and learning to develop a better short game. This is how you will lower your scores, no matter how good you are.

 

Scott Cole

[dap]

Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.

[JVill]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

I walked with Trevino in '81on a course I played a couple of weeks earlier. He stopped a four iron from 220 yards with out any problem. The greens were very fast and dry. He wasn't terribly long, unless he wanted to be.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

hogan built a swing that allowed the equipment of the day to take apart courses, he had all the shots then, it's just his stock shoot chosen was a lower flight than his peers.

if he played today with the modern equipment/courses who's to say he wouldn't choose a stock high ball, then people would say he hits it too high to compete in the 50's, lol. he'd either adjust the equipment or delay the arms and have a subtly different stock aesthetic.

and if you think this is just more net mythology, this is what tiger does on the greens, every shoot is different, every course is different, subtle adaptions to the stroke and release for each weekly task, and people think he's the best putter because he has grooved a machine like stroke. it's whats hogan did over a week in scotland on barren links which included adjusting his ball flight, he got better every day, if he had a week more practice he could of destroyed the field.

the best of the best aren't giants because they are a machine of their times, they excel because they adapt, and they adapt best because they have control of the most options.

the modern equipment means there is less separation between these players and the rest of the field, its harder for modern competition to identify them, but they are still there and always at the top, imo the best player of any [u]generation[/u] would excel in any era and any of them are worthy of study even old tom morris, lol.

[dap]

[quote name='JVill' timestamp='1290460599' post='2802819']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

I walked with Trevino in '81on a course I played a couple of weeks earlier. He stopped a four iron from 220 yards with out any problem. The greens were very fast and dry. He wasn't terribly long, unless he wanted to be.
[/quote]
That may be so but Trevino will be the first one to tell you he had a lot of trouble hitting the ball high.He also disliked having to hit draws.A lot of people doesn't know this but he won 2 US Opens and 2 PGAs in wet conditions.

[dap]

Trevino's move was called "agricultural" by British scribe Leonard Crawley because it was flat and marked by a pronounced extension toward the target, but in fact it was a picture of grace, balance and strength. Built close to the ground at 5-8, 180 pounds, Trevino blended an individualistic technique he truly "owned" with great hand-eye coordination to hit nearly every shot dead solid. Trevino had a bit of trouble hitting it high enough to hold extremely firm greens, and he's the first to say that he won two U.S. Opens and two PGAs in wet conditions, but he was otherwise flawless. His feel and precise contact made him a genius wedge player, with the risky low burner that took one hop and stopped being his specialty. And nobody has been straighter off the tee under pressure; Jack Nicklaus said the certainty that Trevino wouldn't miss a fairway made him his toughest opponent head to head.


Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2010-11/photos-my-five-best-ball-strikers#ixzz164LG4Wml

[JVill]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290478724' post='2803331']
[quote name='JVill' timestamp='1290460599' post='2802819']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

I walked with Trevino in '81on a course I played a couple of weeks earlier. He stopped a four iron from 220 yards with out any problem. The greens were very fast and dry. He wasn't terribly long, unless he wanted to be.
[/quote]
That may be so but Trevino will be the first one to tell you he had a lot of trouble hitting the ball high.He also disliked having to hit draws.A lot of people doesn't know this but he won 2 US Opens and 2 PGAs in wet conditions.
[/quote]
I would say that he could hit the ball high when he wanted to, he just did not like to do so. Like Weiskopf once said, he preferred his low flight because it was like a putt. High shots lay prey to wind effects that he did not enjoy.
Regarding Trevino and the draw; this was his choice, not inability. For example, at the time I walked around with him (there were about 50 of us lucky folks following him along on the fairways in a practice round), he hit a drive into a pond he did not know was there and nobody had mentioned it to him. This seemed to "tick him off" and he hit a second tee shot, a nice boring draw onto the green, 368 yards in front of him. He was not short nor unable to hit all the shots if he felt he wanted to do so.

[dap]

I never said he could not hit those shots.Any tour pro could hit any shots such is their talent but it is what it is.He won 4 Majors in wet conditions.Fact.

He was not a long hitter even when he wanted to.There was a long drive competition amongst fellow touring pros and he came near last.One example of him hitting a 350 yard drive doesn't make him a long hitter.Corey Pavin has hit 350+ yard drives but that doesn't make him a long hitter.

[JVill]

That is very true, he was not long. I compared a few of his drives to where I ended up on that course (same tees, basically the same conditions) and he was not long. During the warm up on the range, he was egged on to blast one "over the trees" at the end of the range since that is what Palmer had done in a similar demo round two years prior. I remember Trevino said something like; " have you seen Arnie's forearms?" , he gestured to his own, and then said; "Arnie grew up digging coal in those Pennsylvania mines, not me." Not long but a damned good player and funny.

[dap]

[quote name='JVill' timestamp='1290481537' post='2803407']
That is very true, he was not long. I compared a few of his drives to where I ended up on that course (same tees, basically the same conditions) and he was not long. During the warm up on the range, he was egged on to blast one "over the trees" at the end of the range since that is what Palmer had done in a similar demo round two years prior. I remember Trevino said something like; " have you seen Arnie's forearms?" , he gestured to his own, and then said; "Arnie grew up digging coal in those Pennsylvania mines, not me." Not long but a damned good player and funny.
[/quote]
One has to remember that every tour pro or good player does not swing for the fences on every shot.They are playing for a score and accuracy far outweighs maximum distance.I'm sure Trevino could bust one but so can I when I swing all out.Where it can end up is another matter.

When they talk about the best ballstrikers ever,Trevino's name always come up.That has to count for something but I just like to keep to the facts.I would also like to separate the facts from the myths regarding Hogan as well but his legendary staus and lack of stats in those days make it difficult.

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

Totally disagree with this assessment. With the exception of the U.S. Open, the greens on tour are mighty soft. Every week is a putting contest. You forget when Nicklaus started his career, right at the tail end of Hogan's. Thus they were playing similar golf courses.

I would also argue that great players of any era would be great no matter what era they played in, because they would adapt. Nicklaus was primarily a high ball hitter, but he also won three British Opens where the wind is blowing. Hogan won at Carnoustie.

[dap]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1290542546' post='2804847']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

Totally disagree with this assessment. With the exception of the U.S. Open, the greens on tour are mighty soft. Every week is a putting contest. You forget when Nicklaus started his career, right at the tail end of Hogan's. Thus they were playing similar golf courses.

I would also argue that great players of any era would be great no matter what era they played in, because they would adapt. Nicklaus was primarily a high ball hitter, but he also won three British Opens where the wind is blowing. Hogan won at Carnoustie.
[/quote]


You have a good point about great players will be great in any era but you have obviously never putted on the greens at Augusta during Masters week.They are lightning fast.

The grass on many courses have been changed from Bermuda to Bent grass.Bent grass grows thinner and upright so the roll is true but faster.Augusta changed to Bent grass in 1981.

I have never heard anyone till today say the greens on todays courses are as slow as those back in fifties and sixties.

Hitting the ball high is a definite advantage on the PGA tour today.Low ball hitters do not win many majors.

One of Hogan's biggest secret was supination.Supination effectively delofts the clubface.He would have had to scrap this technique playing todays tour.Would he have been as great?We can only speculate.

[JVill]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290562563' post='2805616']
[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1290542546' post='2804847']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

Totally disagree with this assessment. With the exception of the U.S. Open, the greens on tour are mighty soft. Every week is a putting contest. You forget when Nicklaus started his career, right at the tail end of Hogan's. Thus they were playing similar golf courses.

I would also argue that great players of any era would be great no matter what era they played in, because they would adapt. Nicklaus was primarily a high ball hitter, but he also won three British Opens where the wind is blowing. Hogan won at Carnoustie.
[/quote]


You have a good point about great players will be great in any era but you have obviously never putted on the greens at Augusta during Masters week.They are lightning fast.

The grass on many courses have been changed from Bermuda to Bent grass.Bent grass grows thinner and upright so the roll is true but faster.Augusta changed to Bent grass in 1981.

I have never heard anyone till today say the greens on todays courses are as slow as those back in fifties and sixties.

Hitting the ball high is a definite advantage on the PGA tour today.Low ball hitters do not win many majors.

One of Hogan's biggest secret was supination.Supination effectively delofts the clubface.He would have had to scrap this technique playing todays tour.Would he have been as great?We can only speculate.
[/quote]

Bent is faster than Bermuda. I have played both and Bermuda is very "springy", coarse and slow.
Played on a bent grass greens where they were tested by Titleist the week before (they had some sort of ball challenge thing going on) faster on the Stimpmeter (by how much I do not know) than Augusta tested a month earlier during the Masters (this was 1985). Yes, they were quick but did not have the hilliness of Augusta greens so it was not a nightmare. Still fast and I loved them.
I have read quotes from pros playing Augusta before switching to Bent grass that they were as fast as putting downhill on a marble staircase. The greens of Augusta were Bermuda up until sometime in the 80's when they switched to Bent.
Hogan's supination (I loved reading his book when I was about ten and thought "what the hell is he talking about?") is another way of saying he rotated his arm through the swing (pronation to supintation) OR he "hooded" the club face some what at impact to keep the ball low.
I really believe Nicklaus when asked if Tiger had the best swing in golf history and Jack immediately said, no, it was Hogan. I would not argue with Jack's assessment. He studied Booby Jones' swing as a kid, watched Hogan when a young Pro and played with Tiger in his senior years.

[dap]

[quote name='JVill' timestamp='1290564368' post='2805688']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290562563' post='2805616']
[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1290542546' post='2804847']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1290430080' post='2802168']
Ben Hogan crafted a swing for the courses of his era.He was a low ball hitter and he would have a hard time today where you need to hit irons a mile high to stop them on slick greens,particularly the mid irons.Same with Trevino.They would do well on British Open links courses.

Nicklaus though would have a party if he were in his prime today.
[/quote]

Totally disagree with this assessment. With the exception of the U.S. Open, the greens on tour are mighty soft. Every week is a putting contest. You forget when Nicklaus started his career, right at the tail end of Hogan's. Thus they were playing similar golf courses.

I would also argue that great players of any era would be great no matter what era they played in, because they would adapt. Nicklaus was primarily a high ball hitter, but he also won three British Opens where the wind is blowing. Hogan won at Carnoustie.
[/quote]


You have a good point about great players will be great in any era but you have obviously never putted on the greens at Augusta during Masters week.They are lightning fast.

The grass on many courses have been changed from Bermuda to Bent grass.Bent grass grows thinner and upright so the roll is true but faster.Augusta changed to Bent grass in 1981.

I have never heard anyone till today say the greens on todays courses are as slow as those back in fifties and sixties.

Hitting the ball high is a definite advantage on the PGA tour today.Low ball hitters do not win many majors.

One of Hogan's biggest secret was supination.Supination effectively delofts the clubface.He would have had to scrap this technique playing todays tour.Would he have been as great?We can only speculate.
[/quote]

Bent is faster than Bermuda. I have played both and Bermuda is very "springy", coarse and slow.
Played on a bent grass greens where they were tested by Titleist the week before (they had some sort of ball challenge thing going on) faster on the Stimpmeter (by how much I do not know) than Augusta tested a month earlier during the Masters (this was 1985). Yes, they were quick but did not have the hilliness of Augusta greens so it was not a nightmare. Still fast and I loved them.
I have read quotes from pros playing Augusta before switching to Bent grass that they were as fast as putting downhill on a marble staircase. The greens of Augusta were Bermuda up until sometime in the 80's when they switched to Bent.
Hogan's supination (I loved reading his book when I was about ten and thought "what the hell is he talking about?") is another way of saying he rotated his arm through the swing (pronation to supintation) OR he "hooded" the club face some what at impact to keep the ball low.
I really believe Nicklaus when asked if Tiger had the best swing in golf history and Jack immediately said, no, it was Hogan. I would not argue with Jack's assessment. He studied Booby Jones' swing as a kid, watched Hogan when a young Pro and played with Tiger in his senior years.
[/quote]
Hooding the club is no longer as popular due to the reasons mentioned.Tiger and Mickelson do it to some extent but they can still hit it high due to their high clubhead speed.

Supination or hooding is not the same as rotation.Some call it negative torque and it is separate from forearm rotation.It is not easy to do without very strong wrists.Supination can actually stop the left forearm over rotating and you feel like you can release as hard as you want without ever going left.You can hit the ball very straight but very low.Great on windy days but you will never hold greens with anything lower than a mid iron unless you run it in.

[williambenjamin11]

People focus on Hogan cause he's relatively so-so early, like us, then suddenly was great. So people think he discovered the swing. So people think we can become him.